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Trident 24 / 65 Stand - How to find bolts for stand
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1
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Trident 24 / 65 Stand - How to find bolts for stand

Hi,

I posted this in the So Much Gear forum also, because I am not sure if it goes here or not.

Anyhow:

I have a Trident 24 console that I am putting back together. Putting this thing on the stand has always been an adventure, and I've had to do it a bunch of times.

Does anyone have a source for the bolts that attach the console to the stand? Or any other method of securing the thing?

I have the stand put together already. I was sure we saved all the bolts and what-not from the whole thing when we disassembled it, but there do not appear to be any that fit the "console to stand" portion.

Specifically, there are two holes in each side of the console bed [below the faders] that match up to two holes on each top rail of the stand. It appears that there are supposed to be bolts that just thread directly through, because there is no way to get a hand into the stand to hold a nut in place.

Where can I find the bolts, or what other method can be used?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #2
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I think I have this figured out in that the same bolts that hold the stand together should work, even though the holes in the console bed are larger, because they still go into the stand and those holes are smaller like the rest of the holes on the stand. Its just a little weird that the holes in the console bed and the matching holes on the stand are not the same, but, as I think of it, that's probably the only way to get them to thread properly. ???

However, I would still be interested in hearing from anyone who has a different / better solution for securing the console and stand.


Thanks,

audioforce
Old 3 weeks ago
  #3
Pictures would help along with some measurements of the bolts. I guess you could look on line to find an exploded parts diagram for the console or call Trident. Best of luck!
Old 3 weeks ago
  #4
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Thanks Thomas. I am having no luck finding a diagram [readable] online, and the manual I found does not have stand info either.

Update:

The bolt holes on one side of the stand are bigger than the ones on the other, which are the same as the other bolt holes in the stand.

I cannot figure out the size of the bolts to use on the mismatched side. The rest of the holes are a metric 5. On the mismatched side, the metric 5 is too small and a metric 6 is too big.

Any ideas?


Thanks,


audioforce
Old 2 weeks ago
  #5
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioforce View Post
Thanks Thomas. I am having no luck finding a diagram [readable] online, and the manual I found does not have stand info either.

Update:

The bolt holes on one side of the stand are bigger than the ones on the other, which are the same as the other bolt holes in the stand.

I cannot figure out the size of the bolts to use on the mismatched side. The rest of the holes are a metric 5. On the mismatched side, the metric 5 is too small and a metric 6 is too big.

Any ideas?


Thanks,


audioforce
Someone retapped them for SAE bolts? Try some normal SAE bolts to see if they fit. Best of luck!
Old 2 weeks ago
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe View Post
Someone retapped them for SAE bolts? Try some normal SAE bolts to see if they fit. Best of luck!
Hey Thomas.

Actually, I figured out what happened.

On the side where the bolts fit, there are threaded “inserts” (don’t know what they are actually called). Plastic threads, I think?

On the other side the "inserts" are missing. I don’t understand how they are attached or even exactly what they are. Do you have any idea? They seem to be attached from the back somehow, but I don't see how that could be since the metal frame is a hollow rectangle of, basically, sheet metal, and there is no way to reach inside the "tube" to get to where the holes are.

I can try to upload a pic, and I have a call in to trident but no response so far.


Thanks,

audioforce
Old 2 weeks ago
  #7
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioforce View Post
Hey Thomas.

Actually, I figured out what happened.

On the side where the bolts fit, there are threaded “inserts” (don’t know what they are actually called). Plastic threads, I think?

On the other side the "inserts" are missing. I don’t understand how they are attached or even exactly what they are. Do you have any idea? They seem to be attached from the back somehow, but I don't see how that could be since the metal frame is a hollow rectangle of, basically, sheet metal, and there is no way to reach inside the "tube" to get to where the holes are.

I can try to upload a pic, and I have a call in to trident but no response so far.


Thanks,

audioforce
They are probably some variant of these.https://www.google.com/search?q=t+nu...Gm6lep3UdpAUM:

They are called T-Nuts and you can usually get them from your local hardware store or AMAZON. Metric maybe a bit trickier. FWIW. Best of luck!
Old 2 weeks ago
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe View Post
They are probably some variant of these.https://www.google.com/search?q=t+nu...Gm6lep3UdpAUM:

They are called T-Nuts and you can usually get them from your local hardware store or AMAZON. Metric maybe a bit trickier. FWIW. Best of luck!
Thanks for helping with this, Thom. I can't believe nobody other than me has one of these consoles. There must be a gazillion of them out there. And I wish I knew more about this stuff.

I going to post some pics I took, and maybe you can add to what you've already said. I guess they are some sort of T-nuts, like you said, but I don't see any flange [or much of one], and I can't figure out how the heck to attach them from within the "tube".

See what you think, if you don't mind, and let me know if you know any way to do this.

Oh yeah, the pictures are sideways it seems [something about the V-bulletin software, I guess].

I have a bunch more pics from other angles, if you think it would be helpful.


Thanks,

audioforce
Attached Thumbnails
Trident 24 / 65 Stand - How to find bolts for stand-img_1104.jpg   Trident 24 / 65 Stand - How to find bolts for stand-img_1106.jpg   Trident 24 / 65 Stand - How to find bolts for stand-img_1107.jpg   Trident 24 / 65 Stand - How to find bolts for stand-img_1110.jpg   Trident 24 / 65 Stand - How to find bolts for stand-img_1115.jpg  

Trident 24 / 65 Stand - How to find bolts for stand-img_1121.jpg   Trident 24 / 65 Stand - How to find bolts for stand-img_8997.jpg   Trident 24 / 65 Stand - How to find bolts for stand-img_1109.jpg   Trident 24 / 65 Stand - How to find bolts for stand-img_1109.jpg   Trident 24 / 65 Stand - How to find bolts for stand-img_1110.jpg  

Trident 24 / 65 Stand - How to find bolts for stand-img_1112.jpg   Trident 24 / 65 Stand - How to find bolts for stand-img_1116.jpg   Trident 24 / 65 Stand - How to find bolts for stand-img_1117.jpg   Trident 24 / 65 Stand - How to find bolts for stand-img_1106.jpg   Trident 24 / 65 Stand - How to find bolts for stand-img_1108.jpg  

Old 2 weeks ago
  #9
Probably some varient of these https://www.ezlok.com/e-z-lok-solid-...erts-for-metal or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LrMo1VZkxk. These are pretty standard on DIY assembled office and home furniture. They are either welded or press fit at the factory. You can see in one of your pictures a fastener coming off where someone tried to put in a screw and the insert started coming off. Places like Grainger stock a good variety of them https://www.grainger.com/category/fa.../thread-insert and you can choose what you think would work best for you. Most of these a SAE and not metric. Even Amazon carries a wide variety see https://www.amazon.com/s?k=threaded+...b_sb_ss_i_1_23

Best of luck and let us know what you finally decide on. By the way the pictures helped a lot.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #10
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J
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe View Post
Probably some varient of these https://www.ezlok.com/e-z-lok-solid-...erts-for-metal or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LrMo1VZkxk. These are pretty standard on DIY assembled office and home furniture. They are either welded or press fit at the factory. You can see in one of your pictures a fastener coming off where someone tried to put in a screw and the insert started coming off. Places like Grainger stock a good variety of them https://www.grainger.com/category/fa.../thread-insert and you can choose what you think would work best for you. Most of these a SAE and not metric. Even Amazon carries a wide variety see https://www.amazon.com/s?k=threaded+...b_sb_ss_i_1_23

Best of luck and let us know what you finally decide on. By the way the pictures helped a lot.
Thanks again, Thomas.

I looked at them. Bu,t as you say, the ones on the console appear to be just attached to the back of the metal, not screwed into the metal themselves. In fact, they don’t seem to have threads on the outside, like the E-X Loks.

Is there any way to do that [attach something from the back of the sheet metal, within the "tube"] given the placement? Is it possible to just screw them in from the front. Is that what you are suggesting with the E-Z locks? And how do I determine what size to order?

The screws that work in the other side are Metric 6, but the holes in the frame are larger and its the threaded thing attached to the back of the metal that the metric 6 screws fit.

Sorry for so many questions. Hope I'm not being confusing.


Best,

audioforce
Old 2 weeks ago
  #11
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioforce View Post
J

Thanks again, Thomas.

I looked at them. Bu,t as you say, the ones on the console appear to be just attached to the back of the metal, not screwed into the metal themselves. In fact, they don’t seem to have threads on the outside, like the E-X Loks.

Is there any way to do that [attach something from the back of the sheet metal, within the "tube"] given the placement? Is it possible to just screw them in from the front. Is that what you are suggesting with the E-Z locks? And how do I determine what size to order?

The screws that work in the other side are Metric 6, but the holes in the frame are larger and its the threaded thing attached to the back of the metal that the metric 6 screws fit.

Sorry for so many questions. Hope I'm not being confusing.


Best,

audioforce
Normally these are attached from the front. How they attached them in the back from a channel is interesting. Maybe tack welding? I think if you contact an industrial parts supplier (McMaster Carr https://www.mcmaster.com/) and tell them what you are trying to do they should be able to assist you.

Since I am not where you are it is hard for me to assist you anymore. I hope everything works out for you. Let us know what you finally do.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #12
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Look up "jack nut" or "expansion nut" or "well nut". There are several forms of these general sorts of fasteners, which are inserted into a hole and then somehow deformed to stay in place and make a fixed nut. Some are removable (easily), some more permanent. Some need special tools to install.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe View Post
Normally these are attached from the front. How they attached them in the back from a channel is interesting. Maybe tack welding? I think if you contact an industrial parts supplier (McMaster Carr https://www.mcmaster.com/) and tell them what you are trying to do they should be able to assist you.

Since I am not where you are it is hard for me to assist you anymore. I hope everything works out for you. Let us know what you finally do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrewE View Post
Look up "jack nut" or "expansion nut" or "well nut". There are several forms of these general sorts of fasteners, which are inserted into a hole and then somehow deformed to stay in place and make a fixed nut. Some are removable (easily), some more permanent. Some need special tools to install.
Thank you both for making the time and effort to try to help me with this.

Thom, I understand you think you may have done what you can on this. I'll probably continue to post with questions and hopefully the upshot of all this. If something does occur to you that may help, please let me know, but I understand if you don't.

Drew, I will look into what you suggested and may have a couple more questions after I do. If its not too much trouble, perhaps you can respond further. If not, I understand, of course. Thanks.


Best always,


audioforce
Old 2 weeks ago
  #14
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioforce View Post
Thank you both for making the time and effort to try to help me with this.

Thom, I understand you think you may have done what you can on this. I'll probably continue to post with questions and hopefully the upshot of all this. If something does occur to you that may help, please let me know, but I understand if you don't.

Drew, I will look into what you suggested and may have a couple more questions after I do. If its not too much trouble, perhaps you can respond further. If not, I understand, of course. Thanks.


Best always,


audioforce
No problem. I do want to help you but since I am not in your area and cannot actually look at what you have and see what you want to do it is hard to give advice. Again I would call McMaster-Carr and ask them to help you find the right fittings. As Drew pointed out you may need a special tool to install the fasteners. You might also contact local used business furniture outlets to see if they have the tools or suggestion on how to repair your console frame. Lots of "knock down" office furniture comes with these types of fasteners. FWIW
Old 2 weeks ago
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe View Post
No problem. I do want to help you but since I am not in your area and cannot actually look at what you have and see what you want to do it is hard to give advice. Again I would call McMaster-Carr and ask them to help you find the right fittings. As Drew pointed out you may need a special tool to install the fasteners. You might also contact local used business furniture outlets to see if they have the tools or suggestion on how to repair your console frame. Lots of "knock down" office furniture comes with these types of fasteners. FWIW
Thanks, man. I think those expansion nuts or jack nuts would work, IF they make them that will fit through the holes in the stand, which are about 7mm in diameter. I found a site with jack nuts that are threaded for the metric 6 bolts that are used in the frame, I just don't know how to interpret the lingo in the description. So I can't figure out how fat the things are and if they can be shoved through the hole or not.

I'm gettin't there. But this is a real frustrating thing, as I am sure you can tell. I took me forever to get the console into the house, and now I can't get it set up without scouring the country for obscure fasteners. : )

I guess I could just buy a big piece of 3/4 plywood, set it on top of the stand, and set the console on that for now, but I kind of want to do it right.


Thanks again.


Best,


audioforce
Old 2 weeks ago
  #16
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioforce View Post
Thanks, man. I think those expansion nuts or jack nuts would work, IF they make them that will fit through the holes in the stand, which are about 7mm in diameter. I found a site with jack nuts that are threaded for the metric 6 bolts that are used in the frame, I just don't know how to interpret the lingo in the description. So I can't figure out how fat the things are and if they can be shoved through the hole or not.

I'm gettin't there. But this is a real frustrating thing, as I am sure you can tell. I took me forever to get the console into the house, and now I can't get it set up without scouring the country for obscure fasteners. : )

I guess I could just buy a big piece of 3/4 plywood, set it on top of the stand, and set the console on that for now, but I kind of want to do it right.


Thanks again.


Best,


audioforce
Suggestion...Call McMaster-Carr TODAY (if you are in the US of A) and ask them your questions and have them suggest some solutions. They are very nice and will "try" and help you find a solution. They may ask for pictures (which you already have) so GO FOR IT.

If you are not in the US of A then look up a supplier of fasteners where you live. It is not all that difficult to find the fasteners or install them once you have found them. I have been around machining and fabrication for a long long time and know there are a zillion ways to do what you are requesting but it would be better to talk to an expert who is also a supplier.

Best of Luck!
Old 2 weeks ago
  #17
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I called them and spoke to Noah. They didn’t have any jack nuts that would fit the 7mm holes but he had some other suggestions.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #18
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioforce View Post
I called them and spoke to Noah. They didn’t have any jack nuts that would fit the 7mm holes but he had some other suggestions.
You may not be able to get exactly what is in the frame now so you may have to change out all the bolts/nuts if you want uniformity. You also don't have to go with Metric unless that is a problem for you. SAE bolts and nuts work fine. Where are you located (if you don't want to reveal your location on line send me a Private Message via GS). How good are your metal working skills and do you have access to basic power tools like a drill? I am trying to help but the more I read your post the more I wonder what exactly are you looking for? Are you looking to get your console mounted or are you looking to "restore" it to pristine condition with all the original bolts and nuts done to factory specs? If it were me I would already have the console mounted with what McMaster Carr suggested. I think you are making this into a larger project than it needs to be. FWIW
Old 2 weeks ago
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe View Post
You may not be able to get exactly what is in the frame now so you may have to change out all the bolts/nuts if you want uniformity. You also don't have to go with Metric unless that is a problem for you. SAE bolts and nuts work fine. Where are you located (if you don't want to reveal your location on line send me a Private Message via GS). How good are your metal working skills and do you have access to basic power tools like a drill? I am trying to help but the more I read your post the more I wonder what exactly are you looking for? Are you looking to get your console mounted or are you looking to "restore" it to pristine condition with all the original bolts and nuts done to factory specs? If it were me I would already have the console mounted with what McMaster Carr suggested. I think you are making this into a larger project than it needs to be. FWIW
Well don't get too worried about it. I'm working on it. Basically, I'm just trying to put my console back together properly. Its pretty much intact and I am not keen on doing stuff to it that would alter it and can't be undone. I definitely appreciate all the help and thought.


Best,

audioforce
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