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Canare L-2E5 for 38" fx pedal patch cable
Old 1st December 2018
  #1
Gear Maniac
 

Canare L-2E5 for 38" fx pedal patch cable.

I found a proper and courteous answer from a colleague.

Last edited by optofonik; 3rd December 2018 at 06:41 PM..
Old 1st December 2018
  #2
Gear Addict
 

For 38" patch cables it matters not one whit, in my opinion. I would venture to guess that in a blind ABX test you would be completely unable to discern any difference at all in sound when switching between the two cables. Any high frequency attenuation is going to be well above any frequency you can hear.
Old 2nd December 2018
  #3
Lives for gear
 
Richard Crowley's Avatar
 

Does "pedalboard" imply that the signal is coming from a high-output-impedance source like a passive vintage electric guitar?
If you are talking about "instrument level" then NEITHER of those cable selections is designed for unbalanced, high-impedance signals.
Why do you need such long patch cables for a "pedalboard"?

Your quoted specs for Canare L2-2E5 show no capacitance figures at all.
So how did you arrive at your remarkable conclusion of "big differences"?
How do you compare 154 pF/m with (blank, nothing, nada)?

Surely you don't believe that a series resistance of 4.8 ohm/100m vs. 12.7 ohm/100m makes any difference over 1m?
Especially at high or medium source impedance?
If you were running 100s or 1000s of meters, then that would be an important spec.

You see to be concentrating on completely irrelevant specs and ignoring the important factors.

The important factors here are the OUTPUT-IMPEDANCE of the source gear, and the parallel CAPACITANCE of the cable.
And for such short distances (1m) you could argue that even that is irrelevant.

Your question does not include enough critical details to answer properly.
But you seem to be worked up over irrelevant factors.
Old 2nd December 2018
  #4
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Crowley View Post
Does "pedalboard" imply that the signal is coming from a high-output-impedance source like a passive vintage electric guitar?
If you are talking about "instrument level" then NEITHER of those cable selections is designed for unbalanced, high-impedance signals.
Why do you need such long patch cables for a "pedalboard"?

Your quoted specs for Canare L2-2E5 show no capacitance figures at all.
So how did you arrive at your remarkable conclusion of "big differences"?
How do you compare 154 pF/m with (blank, nothing, nada)?

Surely you don't believe that a series resistance of 4.8 ohm/100m vs. 12.7 ohm/100m makes any difference over 1m?
Especially at high or medium source impedance?
If you were running 100s or 1000s of meters, then that would be an important spec.

You see to be concentrating on completely irrelevant specs and ignoring the important factors.

The important factors here are the OUTPUT-IMPEDANCE of the source gear, and the parallel CAPACITANCE of the cable.
And for such short distances (1m) you could argue that even that is irrelevant.

Your question does not include enough critical details to answer properly.
But you seem to be worked up over irrelevant factors.




Your remind me of a few of the people (thankfully few) I've worked with over the past twenty-five years who no one will hire anymore because of their condescending manner and overall negative demeanor.

They speak down to others on production, especially those who are green or in other departments, but make sure a producer is never in earshot (which sooner or later happens and leads to the inevitable). They have a enough knowledge and experience to get the job done but no one on the crew can stand to be around them for twelve hours a day. Sooner or later a less experienced cat comes along with decent chops but a truly great attitude that the crew wants to be around and the show goes on without the bad apple.

These bad apples can never just answer a question or point someone in the right direction, they have to belabor the moment and make a meal out of it, going on and on about how the question is irrelevant in order to make the person who asked feel small and ignorant for asking such a stupid question. They're never actually grateful for an opportunity to help another person, they just look for opportunities to feel good about themselves at another's expense.

I'll figure it out, it's not that hard, and I'll do so without allowing someone like you to pollute my world. People like you don't get to play in my sandbox. You'll be in my ignore list, though, and you can puff yourself up at the expense of others all you want, I'll never know about it, you won't exist, and you'll not have another opportunity to interact with me again.
Attached Thumbnails
Canare L-2E5 for 38" fx pedal patch cable-pedalboard-progress.jpg  

Last edited by optofonik; 4th December 2018 at 05:32 AM..
Old 3rd December 2018
  #5
Lives for gear
 
Richard Crowley's Avatar
 

Well, now that the OP has left the room, we can discuss the actual technical questions here.

The question seems to be that we need a 1m ("38 inch") TS cable for a "pedalboard". Actually two of them, but that doesn't change the issues.

We have no information about the impedance or signal levels involved here. Is this high-impedance "instrument-level"?
Or is this low(ish) impedance line-level? We don't know because this detail was deemed irrelevant by the OP.

PARALLEL CAPACITANCE and SOURCE IMPEDANCE
The reason this is an important factor is because lowish impedance line level audio will not care a whit about the parallel capacitance of 1m of cable.
While a high-impedance, "instrument-level" signal could have a high-enough source impedance that several picoFarads of cable capacitance may start rolling off high frequencies. This is exactly why special "instrument cable" is made and sold by the kilometer every year. Because people who play electric guitars (or bases, etc.) with vintage high-impedance don't want to lose any high-end frequencies to the cable capcitance,

Now, Canare GS-4 cable is designed for low-capacitance, instrument applications. Canare specifies that an average 1m length of GS-4 cable has around 154 pF of parallel capacitance. The AC equivalent of Ohm's law tells us that for a parallel capacitance of 154 pF (1m length of Canare GS-4), if the source-impedance is even as low as 50K ohms, you will get around 3db of rolloff at 20KHz. (RFC Calculator) Of course, you could argue that there isn't much of any audio signal of any practical importance up at 20KHz. And you could be right.

OTOH, Canare doesn't even specify the parallel capacitance spec of L-2E5. That is because it isn't designed for high-impedance "instrument-level" applications. It is designed for low to lowish impedance sources like microphones (a few 100 ohms source impedance) or active audio gear (several 100s to a few K ohms source impedance). So, even if L-2E5 had 100x more parallel capacitance, it would make no practical difference to a lowish-impedance circuit.

However, if this is a lowish impedance signal from the output of a guitar pedal (as distinguished as the "raw" input directly from a high-impedance instrument pickup coil), then indeed, either the Canare GS-4 cable or the Canare L-2E5 would probably perform equally well for all practical purposes in the Real World.

SERIES RESISTANCE and LOAD IMPEDANCE
But the OP seems to be implying that the difference in series resistance is what is important in the choice between Canare GS-4 (0.147 ohms for 1m) vs Canare L-2E5 (0.387 ohms for 1m). At least that is the only comparable specification in the evidence that was cited. If it was some other factor, he didn't call our attention to it, and I was too dull to guess what he was referring to.

Now, if you had a source impedance of 10K ohms (which is probably much lower than the actual case here) a difference of a few tenths of an ohm is going to make exactly zero measurable difference. And the higher the source impedance (and the load impedance) the LESS difference the series resistance is going to make. So the series resistance of 1m of cable for a "pedalboard" is completely irrelevant in the Real World. Or even the series resistance of 2m of cable.

So why do the cable manufacturers bother with specifying the series resistance of their cables? Because some users need to know what the resistance is because they are running low-impedance signals and/or they are running signals over long cables (100s or thousands of meters). But series resistance is irrelevant to this situation high impedance and very short distance).
Old 4 weeks ago
  #6
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrewE View Post
For 38" patch cables it matters not one whit, in my opinion. I would venture to guess that in a blind ABX test you would be completely unable to discern any difference at all in sound when switching between the two cables. Any high frequency attenuation is going to be well above any frequency you can hear.
I forgot to thank you for your courteous reply. "Thanks".
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