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advice on TOFT ATB24 insert problem Dynamics Processors (HW)
Old 5 days ago
  #1
advice on TOFT ATB24 insert problem

Hey everyone!

For the first time, I'm attempting to run a compressor via the insert in my TOFT ATB24. I'm using a TRS Y Cable. My problem is, on every channel, I'm receiving signal into the compressor, but the moment I plug my TRS end into the insert on the mixer, the channel goes dead. I don't seem to be getting any output, only input. Am I doing something wrong, or, is there something wrong with the insert function on the mixer? BTW, I'm using a RNC1773 (really nice compressor). Appreciate any troubleshooting!

regards,

Adam
Old 5 days ago
  #2
Oh, and btw, I've tested the output on the RNC via a separate cable: no problem there. There seems to be a specific issue with the return in the mixer. Odd how it's the same for every channel I've tried though (which makes me think I'm doing something wrong). Also, I've tested the Y cable on an effects loop and both the send and return work fine.
Old 5 days ago
  #3
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Richard Crowley's Avatar
 

It is not clear exactly how you are connecting the RNC to the Toft?
It is also not clear exactly what you mean by "TRS Y Cable"?
Please be much more specific, including product description URLs and/or photos.

Are you aware that you can use a simple TRS to TRS cable between the Toft insert and the RNC?
See page 1 of the Quick Start Guide (http://www.fmraudio.com/assets/rncqsv0.60.pdf)

Are you aware that you cannot use TRS cables for input and output?
Also on page 1 of the Quick Start Guide
Old 5 days ago
  #4
Hi Richard,

Thanks for the response.

By Y cable, I'm referring to a 1/4" TRS to Dual 1/4" TS Insert Cable. For example: Hosa STP-201 1/4" TRS to Dual 1/4" TS Insert Cable (1m) | Insert Cables - Store DJ

You've mentioned you cannot use TRS for input and output; that I did not know! I want to use the insert from the TOFT ATB24 and run it into the in and out of the RNC (effectively, use the insert for a send and return). What would be the appropriate cable for this?

regards,

Adam
Old 5 days ago
  #5
Also, I'm just thinking about this: when I run the 1/4" TRS out of an effects loop I do get a send and return. Maybe I'm not understanding what you mean?
Old 5 days ago
  #6
Richard, I'm reading the RNC quickstart guide you sent (thank you!), and saw this:

"Hooking up the RNC to balanced lines with TRS 1/4'' plugs will not work! If
the equipment you are connecting the RNC to is balanced, you must first unbalance it and only connect into the RNC with TS 1/4'' plugs."

I think this is my problem. I can still get the send from the insert, I just have to route the output of the RNC to a separate channel on the desk. I was hoping to avoid that, but, it seems there is no way around it with a compressor that has unbalanced I/O. When I get a chance, I'll have a go at running my 1/4" TRS to Dual 1/4" TS Insert Cable with a balanced piece of outboard and I'm guessing my problem will be solved.
Old 5 days ago
  #7
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Richard Crowley's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudspeaker View Post
I can still get the send from the insert, I just have to route the output of the RNC to a separate channel on the desk. I was hoping to avoid that, but, it seems there is no way around it with a compressor that has unbalanced I/O.
No. You can simply use a TRS to TRS cable between the "Insert" connector on the mixer and the "input" connector on the RNC.

The "Insert" connector is unbalanced (so that it can accommodate both input and output). That is why the RNC is unbalanced, because it is almost never used with a balanced source and destination.
Old 5 days ago
  #8
So there is no way to get both the send & return working with a single cable so I’m getting the compressed signal flowing through the same channel that is sending the signal?
Old 5 days ago
  #9
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Richard Crowley's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudspeaker View Post
So there is no way to get both the send & return working with a single cable so I’m getting the compressed signal flowing through the same channel that is sending the signal?
Yes, exactly.

Quote:
The RNC can be hooked into Tip-Ring-Sleeve (TRS) insert points
found on many consoles where: TIP = Console insert out, RING = Console insert
in, SLEEVE = Ground reference. This means that each channel of the RNC can be
hooked to a each channel of a TRS console insert with a single TRS cable.
Old 5 days ago
  #10
So, this brings me back to my original question!

If I plug the TRS end into my TOFT insert point and plug the two TR ends into my RNC, should I be getting a signal in the channel that is producing the signal? Am I using the correct 'single' cable? Because, of course, a TRS to TRS would not accomodate both the in and out on the RNC.
Old 4 days ago
  #11
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Richard Crowley's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudspeaker View Post
If I plug the TRS end into my TOFT insert point and plug the two TR ends into my RNC, should I be getting a signal in the channel that is producing the signal?
I assume you mean "TS ends". It would certainly NOT work with "TR" ends.

Are you sure the RNC is working properly? Have you tried it in "Super Nice" mode?

Are you sure the Insert connector on the Toft is working properly?
Are you sure your insert cable is OK?
If you plug in your insert cable and touch the Tip to Tip, does the audio signal make it through the channel as if the insert cable were disconnected?
If not, then you have a problem with your mixer or your cable and the RNC is not implicated.

Quote:
Am I using the correct 'single' cable?
You are describing using an "Insert cable" with TRS on one end, and two TS connectors on the other end. That is NOT what they mean by a "single cable".
They mean a single TRS to single TRS cable.

Quote:
Because, of course, a TRS to TRS would not accomodate both the in and out on the RNC.
It most certainly WILL accommodate both Send and Return with the RNC. Keep reading this over and over until you understand what it is saying...

Quote:
The RNC can be hooked into Tip-Ring-Sleeve (TRS) insert points found on many consoles where: TIP = Console insert out, RING = Console insert in, SLEEVE = Ground reference. This means that each channel of the RNC can be hooked to a each channel of a TRS console insert with a single TRS cable.
Old 4 days ago
  #12
Thanks for your patience, Richard. You are correct: I did, of course, mean TS, not TR! I've had a few late nights in a row and not enough sleep. Apologies.

I've just figured out it was the Y cable I was using that was causing the trouble, and, thankfully, the TOFT and RNC are working as they should. I had another TRS break out cable, this one with the labels 'ring' and 'tip', and, tried it, and voila, I was getting the RNC compressed signal back into the same channel that was producing the signal, via the insert point.

Now, I'm trying to figure out the difference between the two cables. They looks exactly the same (TRS 1/4" to two TS 1/4"). The original Y cable does work in other instances, for example, sending and returning a signal from a reverb unit via a LR Baggs parametric DI fx loop. But, via my insert, it did not work. The other cable, which clearly had the 'tip' and 'ring' labels on the TS ends, did work on the insert. Are these cables wired differently? So confused!

Many thanks for your help, Richard; I really appreciate your time. Believe it or not, I've been working with audio for more than 20 years now (and as a professional for about 8 years), but I do get a bit frazzled by routing.
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