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What is the current way to distribute music and get paid?
Old 6 days ago | Show parent
  #1621
Gear Guru
 
chrisso's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Bingo - exactly.


Instead of answering points, there is too much psycho analysis going on.
Old 6 days ago | Show parent
  #1622
Gear Guru
 
chrisso's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Some people get it

Quote:
Originally Posted by boombapdame ➡️
@ telecode privileged is when someone who wants to become a musician either has wealthy parents so that they themselves don't have to have a 9-5 to subsidize their aspirations and their parents can pay for whatever lessons the child asks for, if he or she has a curious interest in a particular art form or, the same person gets a job unrelated or adjacent to what they aspire to become and that job can allow them to move to another music centric city where they can put themselves out there without being broke, etc.
Old 6 days ago | Show parent
  #1623
Gear Guru
 
chrisso's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc ➡️
i think what he's getting at is...
You know you should think about what you post. Several posts yesterday were just mean spirited, for no good reason as far as I could see. I probably spent 6 months working on that EP. It took me that long because there is no school, I was learning from my mistakes. It's really hard to put something out and get 25 plays on Spotify (for example).
I keep going because I love that genre of music.
At no point was it ever implied I was 'playing around' for personal vanity's sake, or asking people to refund the cost of my gear.
In threads like this, people who put their time and money where their mouth is should be applauded, not horrendously attacked. What I mostly see is people who AREN'T releasing anything, attacking those of us who ARE.
Old 6 days ago | Show parent
  #1624
Gear Nut
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso ➡️
They have the same concerns about streaming algorithms dictating artistic decisions in film and tv:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-56085924
Good quote from Marty, here.
Even if he puts the same Stones song in every movie he makes!
Old 6 days ago | Show parent
  #1625
Lives for gear
 
IM WHO YOU THINK's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
What exactly is "social discussion"?
Old 6 days ago | Show parent
  #1626
Gear Nut
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by IM WHO YOU THINK ➡️
What exactly is "social discussion"?
The best way to ruin dinner!
Sex, race, religion, politics...
Old 6 days ago | Show parent
  #1627
Lives for gear
 
telecode's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by in media res ➡️
Good quote from Marty, here.
Even if he puts the same Stones song in every movie he makes!
I think Scorsese is off his rocker with that one. Netflix actually injected adrenaline into film and cinema IMO. For the longest time it was tent pole marvel comics movies that were reliant on mass ticket sales in theaters to recoup costs.

Now you have a platform where you can show a film like Mank or Roma and no one has to give two ****s what happens in IMAX or Cineplex theaters anymore. Not to mention -- moving to serials from 2 hour films has been a boon for film makers. Film makers now have 10+ hours to tell a story and hook the viewer.
Old 6 days ago | Show parent
  #1628
Quote:
Originally Posted by in media res ➡️
The best way to ruin dinner!
Sex, race, religion, politics...
Correct, pls keep these topics out of the discussion. Thanks
Old 6 days ago | Show parent
  #1629
Gear Nut
 
I didn't really read it like that.

So much great "content" has been been made possible by Netflix, but it's buried within all this other "content" and we're calling it "content".
An algorithm decides what is pushed on the front page of Netflix, based on your habits/selection bias which creates a sort of echo-chamber viewership.
It's not curated for the viewer with any sort of artistic intention.

That was my major takeaway from this struggling creator's essay on the state of cinema and filmmaking.

I also do think that film and tv have been negatively impacted by the same algorithms deciding what music appears in film and tv.
But Billboard had the same ill effect, right?
More top40 / less scoring.
Old 6 days ago | Show parent
  #1630
Lives for gear
 
s wave's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc ➡️
i think what he's getting at is... do you simply make music as a way to make money? just putting out more of whatever is popular just to take advantage of the market that is already there? are you just one of those guys that changed their whole product line to outer space themes after Star Wars came out? are you "expressing yourself through your music" (whatever the **** that is), or just churning out more tropical house because everybody needs more tropical house?

is that what you're doing?
Yea thank for the reply! No - he said I am playing a tech game and I am not true to my music. I have never compromised any artists song or vision (including myself) when I released vinyl albums - I always told the artist you have free reign - no corporate interference whatsoever - if and when THEY thought the album was done I released it as is and even used their artwork etc... if they wanted. If I do a commercial pop song IT'S purpose is to make money - if I release Gospel... it is for the love of GOD. Etc. Chrisso just kept stating stuff that is NOT true at all. I promoted bands when you had to work the press (CashBox Billboard etc) and I distributed the albums - and I worked the radio stations as an independent to ht #1 in many markets. When it was basically impossible... That era is gon... today you BETTER know SEO inside and out - I do and I promote and distribute the MODERN way - but without aggregators and middle men or Tunecore DK etc. I place songs on streaming play lists etc. I said nothing has really changed - except for the fact that MORE people have an opportunity to reach an audience today more than ever - and that the pay scale today is more top weighted... top songs get MOST of the revenue... tc
Old 6 days ago | Show parent
  #1631
Lives for gear
 
s wave's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso ➡️
Bingo - exactly.


Instead of answering points, there is too much psycho analysis going on.
What is wrong with you... ?? YOU never heard any of my music! YOU do NOT KNOW a thing about me! You say I am not true to my music. You say a play a 'tech game' etc etc.... How do YOU know these things... AGAIN I will ask you a simple question: What do YOU know about me or ANY music project I ever worked on? [so watch he CHRISSO will not answer these simple questions BECASEE he has a bone to pick and some kind of personal issue. AGAIN you are a hypocrite - you say 'too much psycho analysis going on' Yet CHRISSO is the one psycho analyzing me when he says 'I am not true to my music' THEN has the audacity to say others are doing it' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCcCJR6xFms get over it - get a life and stop being so twisted~~~~~~~~~~ get over it!!!
Old 5 days ago | Show parent
  #1632
Gear Guru
 
chrisso's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by s wave ➡️
What is wrong with you... ?? YOU never heard any of my music! YOU do NOT KNOW a thing about me! You say I am not true to my music. You say a play a 'tech game' etc etc.... How do YOU know these things... AGAIN I will ask you a simple question: What do YOU know about me or ANY music project I ever worked on? [so watch he CHRISSO will not answer these simple questions BECASEE he has a bone to pick and some kind of personal issue.
1) I clearly answered your question multiple times.
2) I quoted what you said directly.

I can't do any more than that.
Old 5 days ago | Show parent
  #1633
Gear Guru
 
chrisso's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by s wave ➡️
The way to break algorithms and business standards is to go out of the box! Take FINNEX Copyright free music album after album... to get ranked and index... then comes the spoils. Many artists have 'made it' in adjacent non-music industries. Sheeple do what they are told and do not question enough or are apathetic and give up easy. Any one can create future shock to an industry - now more than ever. Many can not 'see it'. It's there. Success is just seeing the exchange. You do this you get that. This is how it's done. Business minded artists tend to make it 1000x faster/better than those who do not apply their creativity in business as well...


Heck I set out to make money from music but my first success came out of the blue from social media views and monetization - I just set up a network - figured out the algo of SEs and set up a network to release my music. Lo and behold - before that happened I was offered multiple monetizations. WHY - because I correctly guessed what media platforms were going to take off!
At no point do you really talk about music, it's all about figuring platforms, working the algorithms, making it in 'adjacent non-music industries' and YOU setting out to 'make money'.

Last edited by chrisso; 5 days ago at 09:32 AM..
Old 5 days ago | Show parent
  #1634
Gear Guru
 
chrisso's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by s wave ➡️
What is wrong with you... ?? YOU never heard any of my music! YOU do NOT KNOW a thing about me!
You posted about you. I quoted your post and reacted to what you posted. It's really as simple as that. I have answered this point many times now. The fact you keep claiming I am dodging the question says it all.
Old 5 days ago | Show parent
  #1635
Gear Guru
 
chrisso's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by s wave ➡️
If I do a commercial pop song IT'S purpose is to make money - if I release Gospel... it is for the love of GOD.
That's YOU.
Actually I think people release gospel albums because that's the music they love. Often it's the music they grew up with, it's the music they know, and they have a burning desire to add to that genre of music.
I have worked with a lot of pop artists. Actually it surprised me (in my own prejudice). Virtually none of them were making pop records 'to make money'. they were making pop records because that was the music they grew uo with, and the music they loved.most times people I've worked with who made pop music TO MAKE MONEY failed. because the audience detected the fake aspect to the project. The pop artists I worked with who were very successful were actually passionate about pop, had always loved pop music and were motivated to make great pop music themselves.
The money was a happy by product of music they would have made anyway.

If you 'set out to make money', you are much better off getting into the stock markets, or training as a lawyer etc, etc....
Old 5 days ago | Show parent
  #1636
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc ➡️
i think what he's getting at is... do you simply make music as a way to make money? just putting out more of whatever is popular just to take advantage of the market that is already there? are you just one of those guys that changed their whole product line to outer space themes after Star Wars came out? are you "expressing yourself through your music" (whatever the **** that is), or just churning out more tropical house because everybody needs more tropical house?

is that what you're doing?
How do you know the motivations behind something?

If something is popular, it's likely that people who it is popular with will then decide to express themselves via the music they like - I.e. the popular music of the time.

If you, at the same time, wish to earn a living from that, you'll choose ways to promote it that you feel will be successful.

It would be snobbery to denegrate someone for make styles of music that are already popular and to accuse them of only doing it *because* it is popular.

Personally, I love *making* music. And that includes copying styles as an exercise.. and the truth is, because I love music, I also love most music styles!

I know some can't relate to that and only consider having a niche and narrow taste as being the only way to be "true to yourself" but that is nothing more than a personal bias.
Old 5 days ago | Show parent
  #1637
Gear Guru
 
chrisso's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
We finally agree
Old 5 days ago | Show parent
  #1638
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso ➡️
Some people get it
Some others get that it's not such a narrow concept as that..
Old 5 days ago | Show parent
  #1639
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso ➡️
At no point was it ever implied I was 'playing around' for personal vanity's sake, or asking people to refund the cost of my gear.
In threads like this, people who put their time and money where their mouth is should be applauded, not horrendously attacked. What I mostly see is people who AREN'T releasing anything, attacking those of us who ARE.
Over and over in this thread, you've stated that people *should* expect to have the cost of their gear and time refunded, just because *some* people have decided to check out the tracks (whether you know they actually like them or not..).

Then when it's about personal actions, and wanting to appear more like an artist doing things for the love of it, you change your stance..

There is the promo video you said you created deliberately as a promo video.. So what was the motivation behind that? Sounds like it was to drum up interest in commercial sales. You created something for commercial gain.. so...

And you've never explained this bias you have toward people who *release* their music publically and put anyone down who makes music but doesn't release it publically. It's such a weird hang-up you have.. I'm spending just as much in terms of making music (I'm obviously not spending time or money pushing it..).

No-one has to release music.. They've made it, it is satisfying enough to make it. Releasing it is often to psychologically seek success or acceptance among peers - same as seeking financial success. It's just psychological snobbery to say one reason for release is more acceptable than another.
Old 5 days ago | Show parent
  #1640
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso ➡️
We finally agree
Ha! If you mean me, i'm sure we do anyway.. just not on some details.

I was saying that making music for it to sell is making music for an audience. And it is just as valid to make music for that audience as it is a small group of friends. The idea that art is all about expressing the inner soul is a bit of a nonsense.. So if S wave is making music that's popular, it's as valid as anyone one else's reasons.. There's no need for criticism either way.

I thought you werre criticising him for that.. but perhaps you were pointing out that his reason was no different to your reasons and therefor his criticism of you was unjustified. I'd agree with that for sure.

In which case, I think you both agree too!
Old 5 days ago | Show parent
  #1641
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso ➡️
At no point do you really talk about music, it's all about figuring platforms, working the algorithms, making it in 'adjacent non-music industries' and YOU setting out to 'make money'.
Thats ok - that's what the thread is about. Making a living from making music.
Old 5 days ago | Show parent
  #1642
Gear Guru
 
chrisso's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by nat8808 ➡️
The idea that art is all about expressing the inner soul is a bit of a nonsense.. So if S wave is making music that's popular, it's as valid as anyone one else's reasons.. There's no need for criticism either way.
That's you saying so.
I have found it to be different.
The public can smell out a money making endeavour and are far more likely to like something made from the heart.
Yes, popular music is just as valid. The great popular musicians I have worked with were passionate about pop music and would make it whether it was money making or not. Many failed projects I've come across are when the people are making the music with no passion, just to make money.
George Michael just loved pop records, same with Elton John.
If they just wanted to make that music for a living (inn my experience) they wouldn't have been anything like as successful.
Old 5 days ago | Show parent
  #1643
Gear Guru
 
chrisso's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by nat8808 ➡️
Making a living from making music.
Or put another way, protecting this amazing culture of popular music by offering the exponents a sustainable career.
If you offer them no living, they drift off and do something else - and that's BAD for music fans.
Old 5 days ago | Show parent
  #1644
Gear Guru
 
chrisso's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by nat8808 ➡️
Over and over in this thread, you've stated that people *should* expect to have the cost of their gear and time refunded, just because *some* people have decided to check out the tracks (whether you know they actually like them or not..).
Err no....
I have not for ONE MOMENT EVER said that.

Stop being so arch prejudiced.

If you consume the music and are entertained AND the artist has placed a fee on that entertainment YES, they should be paid their fee.
There are multiple LEGAL ways to demo music free of charge and almost all artists are offering those options.
You are twisting the reality to suit your twisted agenda.

You go to the cinema to watch the new Bond film and you find it not to your liking - you don't get your money back!
But as it stands, there is music radio, free Spotify platform, artists placing music on Youtube, free streams on BandCamp. the picture you paint is 100% WRONG.
Old 5 days ago | Show parent
  #1645
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by s wave ➡️
The music industry has always been 'rigged' so to speak... (as well as numerous industries) It is part of the business game. You either work with the system or spearhead something new. IMO nothing changes. The difference is - when there is a shift in technology or the playing field there is an opportunity. Old days you could not even press a record. But the few that DID it with a decent song or artist never looked back. The money goes to the #1 songs. There are frontiers out there right in front of everybody. The way to break algorithms and business standards is to go out of the box! Take FINNEX Copyright free music album after album... to get ranked and index... then comes the spoils. Many artists have 'made it' in adjacent non-music industries. Sheeple do what they are told and do not question enough or are apathetic and give up easy. Any one can create future shock to an industry - now more than ever. Many can not 'see it'. It's there. Success is just seeing the exchange. You do this you get that. This is how it's done. Business minded artists tend to make it 1000x faster/better than those who do not apply their creativity in business as well...

Streams etc. should be the icing on the cake. Where else can you make money 24/7 worldwide than on net selling etc.? Heck I set out to make money from music but my first success came out of the blue from social media views and monetization - I just set up a network - figured out the algo of SEs and set up a network to release my music. Lo and behold - before that happened I was offered multiple monetizations. WHY - because I correctly guessed what media platforms were going to take off! I took a gamble and supported them - got my friends to go all in and now we are the influencers. Not huge mind you - but making lil money 24/7 world wide. Now my only question is - do I grow this business or stop here and use it to brand my music. Well - my original purpose was use it as a launching pad for my songs... and that is exactly what I will do. Soon they will be my songs and all my friends songs. Lil Nas X getting it on TikTok etc etc. The spoils go to the risk taker - they always will. House and sync areas are exploding now - tons of new platforms every month - you must have vision for creating a song and you must have vision for the future of business as well, nothing has really changed... except it is easier today. Vinyl days were a night mare basically... a few companies a few people basically determined all the success in the music industry. Take a risk...
I dont fully understand what you're talking about but i'd like to know a little more for the sake of the actual topic of the thread.

There have always been paid promotional websites bleeting out the promo for a product th at suddenyl appears in everyone's news feeds and then causing people to share on social media by virtue of nothing but fake reporting of something "interesting' when that reporting has been paid for. PR bot websites essentially..

Is that what you're talking about but in the right music networking circles for a genre?

I was interested in some cast-brass speaker cabinets that were for sale on ebay once, the owner said they were believed to be B&W design prototypes by a famous speaker designer - they sold for £600. Weeks later, the very same were all over the internet among hifi circles because some small-time one-man band hifi manufacturer had bunged some cheap tannoy drivers inside, had them gold-plated and mounted them to bar-stool bases.. and marketted them as £250,000 speakers for billionaires! He also claimed he'd designed them. Via those PR bot websites, he got *so* much coverage, he even got taken seriosuly by a couple of hifi magazines and had them reviewed, favourably. God knows if he succeeded in selling them..

Is that the kind of thing you're talking about? The mechanics of viral promotions?
Old 5 days ago | Show parent
  #1646
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso ➡️
That's you saying so.
I have found it to be different.
The public can smell out a money making endeavour and are far more likely to like something made from the heart.
Yes, popular music is just as valid. The great popular musicians I have worked with were passionate about pop music and would make it whether it was money making or not. Many failed projects I've come across are when the people are making the music with no passion, just to make money.
George Michael just loved pop records, same with Elton John.
If they just wanted to make that music for a living (inn my experience) they wouldn't have been anything like as successful.
That's you saying so.

I've found that people hear the music and like it or not. they dont care about the motivation behind it's creation. Motivations are easily hidden anyway - I take that from the art world.

A friend working in a gallery had found a mannequinn in the rubbish and set it aside to take home for making clothes at home. The artists currently setting up an exhibition took it without her permission, covered it in concrete, made up a bullsh*t story about it's meaning and sold it for £8500. No-one questioned the motivation behind their art..

I certainly dont care.. (but I wont be paying £8500 for a track either).
Old 5 days ago | Show parent
  #1647
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by in media res ➡️
I didn't really read it like that.

So much great "content" has been been made possible by Netflix, but it's buried within all this other "content" and we're calling it "content".
An algorithm decides what is pushed on the front page of Netflix, based on your habits/selection bias which creates a sort of echo-chamber viewership.
It's not curated for the viewer with any sort of artistic intention.

That was my major takeaway from this struggling creator's essay on the state of cinema and filmmaking.

I also do think that film and tv have been negatively impacted by the same algorithms deciding what music appears in film and tv.
But Billboard had the same ill effect, right?
More top40 / less scoring.
Friends and family are similar algorythms, recommending stuff to you because they think you'll like it. Would you complain that they're doing it? Offering stuff people think you will like based on past likes is natural.. the bias is purely against a machine doing it.

Humans dont like thier nature being reduced to something mechanical ..even when the results of the human actions are just as mechanical.

What you do in *real* life is get new friends or you research what to watch and find it yourself. no-one should be complaining that the stuff handed to them on a platter isn't unique enough ! stop accepting things handed on a platter is the sollution. It's fine however for that platter to be offered.

Meanwhile, I wish Tidal *did* push stuff I like.. their service only seems to push new music that suits a general Tidal audience. So i'm left floundering trying to remember the name of someone I want to check out.. and forget (streaming for me is normally for on the move only)

Last edited by nat8808; 5 days ago at 12:24 PM..
Old 5 days ago | Show parent
  #1648
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso ➡️
You are twisting the reality to suit your twisted agenda.
You're twisting reality to create this idea that others have twisted agendas! That is the conspiracy theory I've talked about you having a propensity for.. that there's a twisted agenda behind everything you dont like, rather than it being natural progression or natural reaction to a situation.

How about that it is simply the impression I have taken away from reading your actual posts? No conspiracy to delberately twist a thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso ➡️
Err no....
I have not for ONE MOMENT EVER said that.

Stop being so arch prejudiced.

If you consume the music and are entertained AND the artist has placed a fee on that entertainment YES, they should be paid their fee.
There are multiple LEGAL ways to demo music free of charge and almost all artists are offering those options.


You go to the cinema to watch the new Bond film and you find it not to your liking - you don't get your money back!
But as it stands, there is music radio, free Spotify platform, artists placing music on Youtube, free streams on BandCamp. the picture you paint is 100% WRONG.
You've said many times that, not only should they be paid their fee, but that fee should earn them a living.

You've calculated that the fees they can earn for a certain number of plays doesn't pay for the time they've put into it, on a minimum wage basis.. and you've implied you think it should do. You've then gone on to say that they've also "invested" a lot of money in gear etc - the implication being that an investment should see a return also.

That has come across to me as if you were saying artists *should* have their time and investments paid for and that it should be expected, not an acception to the rule.

My personal take is that time and money is invested in full knowledge of their being no guarantee of it being returned (just as a label has no gurantee) and it's up to individual to assess the risk of it not being so (just as it is an assessment of a label). Then it is also my personal attitude that persuing means to earn a living from it again is a choice, and in this industry environment, also an endevour in which one needs skills or luck to succeed. If one doesn't have the means, they need to seek it from somewhere else somehow.

It comes across that you think it should be easy to choose to make a living from it.. perhaps because labels always used to make it so back when it was profitable for them ( after you passed their gatekeepers of course). Therefore the industry should be shaped to keep it profitable for them, so they can continue .

Going to the cinema is the same as going to a gig or buying physical - music already has that. Cinema is so different that it doesn't compare well. I rarely watch a film more than once for a start..

Last edited by nat8808; 5 days ago at 12:12 PM..
Old 5 days ago | Show parent
  #1649
Gear Guru
 
chrisso's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by nat8808 ➡️
That's you saying so.
Because I've played on a lot of pop hits and seen what works. I know you think actual experience counts for nothing, but then that's why we pay doctors and scientists isn't it?
Old 5 days ago | Show parent
  #1650
Gear Guru
 
chrisso's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by nat8808 ➡️


You've said many times that, not only should they be paid their fee, but that fee should earn them a living.
When their work is consumed. I have said that multiple times, even in CAPS, but you keep ignoring it ONLY because it doesn't suit your tiny anti-professional agenda.
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