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I Produced For A Rap Star: Writer Vs. Publishing
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1
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I Produced For A Rap Star: Writer Vs. Publishing

Hey guys,

My first post here.

I recently Licensed my instrumental - Non-Exclusively - to an artist. The artist retains 100% of the Writer’s Share.

During the Licensing, I retained 100% of the Publishing Share.

Two months later, the artist sent me the video they recorded for their song and the video had over 1M views in 12 hours.

It turns out that the artist I Licensed my work to is a rap star in his native country.

I don’t know an awful lot about Publishing and so on, but I always try my best to understand the ins and outs of it all.

1. Am I entitled to claim Royalties on this song despite having no Writer’s Share, only the Publishing Share? Can someone please explain the difference.

2. I’m worried that this artist is going to try and avoid crediting me for my share of the composition. Where do I stand with something like this? The artist is from the Far East.

Thank you to anyone that can offer me some knowledge and advice, it’s appreciated!
Old 3 weeks ago
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GustoKid View Post
Hey guys,

My first post here.

I recently Licensed my instrumental - Non-Exclusively - to an artist. The artist retains 100% of the Writer’s Share.

During the Licensing, I retained 100% of the Publishing Share.

Two months later, the artist sent me the video they recorded for their song and the video had over 1M views in 12 hours.

It turns out that the artist I Licensed my work to is a rap star in his native country.

I don’t know an awful lot about Publishing and so on, but I always try my best to understand the ins and outs of it all.

1. Am I entitled to claim Royalties on this song despite having no Writer’s Share, only the Publishing Share? Can someone please explain the difference.

2. I’m worried that this artist is going to try and avoid crediting me for my share of the composition. Where do I stand with something like this? The artist is from the Far East.

Thank you to anyone that can offer me some knowledge and advice, it’s appreciated!
Did he tell you to "**** off" too?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noisewagon View Post
Did he tell you to "**** off" too?
Hu?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #4
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by GustoKid View Post
Hu?
Credit is cheap. The man should have been credited for his work. It costs nothing.

Mmm..nice...


But...if that wasn't in the contract, you can bet they show you no mercy.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noisewagon View Post
Credit is cheap. The man should have been credited for his work. It costs nothing.
Well, we both received our credit. My question is, where do I stand in regards to receiving Royalties for the Pub. Share?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #6
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noisewagon View Post
Credit is cheap. The man should have been credited for his work. It costs nothing.

Mmm..nice...


But...if that wasn't in the contract, you can bet they show you no mercy.
Yes it was in the contract. Producer retains 100% of the Pub. Share.

Last edited by GustoKid; 3 weeks ago at 02:50 AM.. Reason: Misspelling
Old 3 weeks ago
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GustoKid View Post
Well, we both received our credit. My question is, where do I stand in regards to receiving Royalties for the Pub. Share?
That's easy, did you send a report to ASACP or BMI?

I mean, did you register the song with them?

Unless you tell them what songs you own, how would they ever know to send you the money?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noisewagon View Post
That's easy, did you send a report to ASCP or BMI?

I mean, did you register the song with them?
No I haven’t yet. I’m from the UK so we have PRS. I’ve reached out to them and I’m just waiting on a reply.

Will the song only be recognised for Royalty accumulation if the artist has listed me as the Publishing owner?

Please excuse my lack of knowledge on some of this.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #9
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by GustoKid View Post
No I haven’t yet. I’m from the UK so we have PRS. I’ve reached out to them and I’m just waiting on a reply.

Will the song only be recognised for Royalty accumulation if the artist has listed me as the Publishing owner?

Please excuse my lack of knowledge on some of this.
Yes, they will save the money for you for a grace period. (Well ASCAP does)...

You are in Europe? BMI is your ticket. Just ally for the union, and then go online and register your songs, and they will send you royalty checks...

Sounds crazy... but I t happened to me too.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #10
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noisewagon View Post
Yes, they will save the money for you for a grace period. (Well ASCAP does)...

You are in Europe? BMI is your ticket. Just ally for the union, and then go online and register your songs, and they will send you royalty checks...

Sounds crazy... but I t happened to me too.
I’ll research BMI in the morning and get to work on it!

Let’s say the artist registered the song on their end. During the process they stated that they own the Publishing. Where do I stand in that instance? For example, is legal action required or can I simply resolve it through PRS or BMI, ETC?

Oh really? Was your case similar to this?

You’re the first person - and I’ve asked an awful lot - to really point me in the right direction. Thank you!

Last edited by GustoKid; 3 weeks ago at 03:15 AM.. Reason: Misspelling
Old 3 weeks ago
  #11
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by GustoKid View Post
I’ll research BMI in the morning and get to work on it!

Let’s say the artist registered the song on their end. During the process they stated that they own the Publishing. Where do I stand in that instance? For example, is legal action required or can I simply resolve it through PRS or BMI, ETC?

Oh really? Was your case similar to this?

You’re the first person - and I’ve asked an awful lot - to really point me in the right direction. Thank you!
Yes. On the website you tell them you own all publishing. You will have to send in your copyright papers as proof, but that's easy. Did you copyright the song?

I mean if you own half, it should be on record.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GustoKid View Post
I’ll research BMI in the morning and get to work on it!

Let’s say the artist registered the song on their end. During the process they stated that they own the Publishing. Where do I stand in that instance? For example, is legal action required or can I simply resolve it through PRS or BMI, ETC?

Oh really? Was your case similar to this?

You’re the first person - and I’ve asked an awful lot - to really point me in the right direction. Thank you!
Thanks, I lost a lot of money in the early 90's because I didn't know what I am telling you now.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #13
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noisewagon View Post
Yes. On the website you tell them you own all publishing. You will have to send in your copyright papers as proof, but that's easy. Did you copyright the song?

I mean if you own half, it should be on record.
The UK has a very weird method for Copyright Protection. There is no official means, method or copyright office. A piece of work is automatically protected as soon as it is created. This is only on the basis that it is an original piece of work.

If one would ever have to prove that they are the copyright holder, then proof for a date of creation is to be provided. I’m not a fan of this method, honestly. One method people use here is to duplicate their creation, then mail it back to themselves, sealed and with proof of postage so that it’s time stamped.

As of today that would be my only means of ownership. Being that I post my production to the internet, they are time stamped upon release.

So until I contact them, I’m not entirely sure where I may stand on that issue.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #14
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by GustoKid View Post
The UK has a very weird method for Copyright Protection. There is no official means, method or copyright office. A piece of work is automatically protected as soon as it is created. This is only on the basis that it is an original piece of work.

If one would ever have to prove that they are the copyright holder, then proof for a date of creation is to be provided. I’m not a fan of this method, honestly. One method people use here is to duplicate their creation, then mail it back to themselves, sealed and with proof of postage so that it’s time stamped.

As of today that would be my only means of ownership. Being that I post my production to the internet, they are time stamped upon release.

So until I contact them, I’m not entirely sure where I may stand on that issue.
Wow, I did't know that.



Why don't you call BMI?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #15
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noisewagon View Post
Wow, I did't know that.



Why don't you call BMI?
Yes, it's a very strange method. As soon as something becomes "tangible", it is automatically protected. I wish something a little better existed as things are much easier when they're in black and white, per se.

I've been researching BMI today after your recommendation. It seems as though PRS has formed connections with all other major royalty collection organisations across the globe in which they - I believe - exchange information with. So I'm hoping that PRS may be able to resolve my issue.

I'm still a little worried about the artist trying to retain the Publishing. Due to my lack of knowledge on the subject, I'm afraid that I won't be able to rectify it.

Thanks for the direction you've given me here, it's helped a lot.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #16
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by GustoKid View Post
Yes, it's a very strange method. As soon as something becomes "tangible", it is automatically protected. I wish something a little better existed as things are much easier when they're in black and white, per se.

I've been researching BMI today after your recommendation. It seems as though PRS has formed connections with all other major royalty collection organisations across the globe in which they - I believe - exchange information with. So I'm hoping that PRS may be able to resolve my issue.

I'm still a little worried about the artist trying to retain the Publishing. Due to my lack of knowledge on the subject, I'm afraid that I won't be able to rectify it.

Thanks for the direction you've given me here, it's helped a lot.
Yes, that would get ugly if he lied and said he owned the publishing and not you. You never signed a legal agreement?

I've been ripped off several times before, because we never signed an agreement. But by the time I won my case I spent more on the lawyer than the money I lost from the song.

But you don't know that yet.

Is the song getting radio play?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #17
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noisewagon View Post
Yes, that would get ugly if he lied and said he owned the publishing and not you. You never signed a legal agreement?

I've been ripped off several times before, because we never signed an agreement. But by the time I won my case I spent more on the lawyer than the money I lost from the song.

But you don't know that yet.

Is the song getting radio play?
Oh wow. I've heard this is often the case in entertainment. I'm guessing it varies but, were you given the opportunity to recoup your legal fees after you won? I've seen this numerous times in entertainment disputes - music particularly.

Also, how did you resolve it with no agreement?

And yes. Every time my music is licensed, the customer has to state their name and agree to a license agreement. If they don't agree with the terms of their agreement, they are unable to purchase the license. Then we are both issued a copy of the agreement.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #18
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by GustoKid View Post
Oh wow. I've heard this is often the case in entertainment. I'm guessing it varies but, were you given the opportunity to recoup your legal fees after you won? I've seen this numerous times in entertainment disputes - music particularly.

Also, how did you resolve it with no agreement?

And yes. Every time my music is licensed, the customer has to state their name and agree to a license agreement. If they don't agree with the terms of their agreement, they are unable to purchase the license. Then we are both issued a copy of the agreement.
Well, if you have a document that was signed by you and the person you did work for, stating that you own 100% of the publishing, then you are golden.

There is nothing to worry about. That will beat them every time.


How did I resolve mine with no agreement? I took the loss, even though I was right.

I thought, "This person is famous, they would never rip me off"....
Old 2 weeks ago
  #19
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noisewagon View Post
Well, if you have a document that was signed by you and the person you did work for, stating that you own 100% of the publishing, then you are golden.

There is nothing to worry about. That will beat them every time.


How did I resolve mine with no agreement? I took the loss, even though I was right.

I thought, "This person is famous, they would never rip me off"....
Oh damn! I’m sure that’s a common, pre-agreement, thought pattern, when dealing with someone who has a name for themselves. Especially if you haven’t been placed in that position before. Sadly, these lessons often come attached to a hefty loss.

That’s a relief to hear! At the bottom of our agreement it states “The Licensor hereby grants the Licensee 0% of the Publishing Rights. The Licensor retains 100% of the Publishing Rights.”

Who will I have to possibly present this agreement to - my PRO / PRS?

I’ve reached out to PRS and they’ve stated that I need to register as a Publisher. I’m just waiting for a reply on more information.

I’m hoping that this may be my introduction to the world of Royalties.

Thanks for all the info thus far. It’s been very helpful!
Old 2 weeks ago
  #20
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by GustoKid View Post
Oh damn! I’m sure that’s a common, pre-agreement, thought pattern, when dealing with someone who has a name for themselves. Especially if you haven’t been placed in that position before. Sadly, these lessons often come attached to a hefty loss.

That’s a relief to hear! At the bottom of our agreement it states “The Licensor hereby grants the Licensee 0% of the Publishing Rights. The Licensor retains 100% of the Publishing Rights.”

Who will I have to possibly present this agreement to - my PRO / PRS?

I’ve reached out to PRS and they’ve stated that I need to register as a Publisher. I’m just waiting for a reply on more information.

I’m hoping that this may be my introduction to the world of Royalties.

Thanks for all the info thus far. It’s been very helpful!
I know this, I wish you luck. But you don't know if they have stolen your publishing yet. If you put in your paperwork they could never steal it.

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