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The switch from Cubase to Sonar DAW Software
Old 30th August 2007
  #1
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The switch from Cubase to Sonar

Has anybody switched from using the Cubase program to the Sonar daw?

If there a major difference? Are all the functions in nearly the same place?


(I know I didn't mention the types of DAW used; ex. Sonar 5, Sonar LE)
Old 30th August 2007
  #2
jje
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I did and haven't looked back. Sonar has a Cubase key command overlay so if you're used to opening your vst window with f11 or saving with ctrl s it will be the same.

The mixer window is similar but a little different. The channel window is different but it doesn't take long to get used to it. The biggest thing I noticed was that I got better cpu performance using Sonar (5 and then 6). I could load more tracks and plugins without maxing out the way I did with Cubase. Track freezing was faster and easier. The only thing it doesn't have that I want (and get from Ableton Live) is rerouting vst audio to audio tracks so that I can disable the vst instead of having to waste time freezing it. Cubase doesn't have that either so I guess that really doesn't matter for your purposes.

Make sure after the first load up that you turn the auto vst scan off otherwise it will take 10 minutes to load each time as it rescans all vsts. It uses dx plugs as the default and if you install a dx plug all you have to do is start Sonar and it's in the menu. However, it uses a vst wrapper to implement them so you have to actually scan your vst folder(s) to use them. If you install a new vst effect you have to go through a complete rescan to use it.
Old 30th August 2007
  #3
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Is this the channel window you are referring to, that is different?
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Old 30th August 2007
  #4
jje
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yup
Old 31st August 2007
  #5
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If you decide to...I might have a copy of Sonar6 Producer Edition for sale. I'd just have to look into what their license transfer policy is. PM me.
Old 31st August 2007
  #6
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Simple Sonar has a non transferable license can't be sold or transfered. Once you register Sonar it's yours.
Old 31st August 2007
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ennbr View Post
Simple Sonar has a non transferable license can't be sold or transfered. Once you register Sonar it's yours.
Thats why Ill NEVER buy Sonar
Old 31st August 2007
  #8
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I didnt know that, I just made a deal with a friend to sell sonar to him this week. It failed on me 3 times during the week DURING paid sessions. Simple crashes like when i press SAVE it says sonar has encountered an error. Back to sx3.1 for me
Old 31st August 2007
  #9
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Too bad. It's actually an estate I'm helping liquidate. I guess Sonar will stick around here and never be used. Seems a shame, but if that's their rule...I'm not gonna sell it to someone knowing they won't be able to register.

Software blows.

Not to get too off subject, but I'm liquidating a friend's studio who's passed. It's hard to explain to the family how all his guitars/pedals/amps/mics, etc get a certain percentage resale, while all his computer software and interfaces get pennies on the dollar. They see the receipts where he paid $1299 for a Tascam FW1884, and I've got to tell them they'll likely get $500. A thousand dollars in Sonar with addons and upgrades and books...worthless. Nice.
Old 31st August 2007
  #10
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I second that software purchase policies blow. Certain software companies can get away with murder. You open it - you bought it and, by-God, you're stuck with it.

It should be legislated, damn it. A customer has to have some re-course if the software that he or she purchased sucks the big, hind tit. Crashing, freezing, "a serious-frickin'error has occurred," etc... un-acceptable.

I've wasted some serious dough on a few pieces of horse-hockey parading as professional software and their "technical-support" blamed every other piece of hardware and software and drivers but their own.
Old 1st September 2007
  #11
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Asking out of ignorance here but I dont know of ANY item on the planet that cannot be RESOLD other than software, do you?
Old 1st September 2007
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d-dmusic View Post
I second that software purchase policies blow. Certain software companies can get away with murder. You open it - you bought it and, by-God, you're stuck with it.

It should be legislated, damn it. A customer has to have some re-course if the software that he or she purchased sucks the big, hind tit. Crashing, freezing, "a serious-frickin'error has occurred," etc... un-acceptable.

I've wasted some serious dough on a few pieces of horse-hockey parading as professional software and their "technical-support" blamed every other piece of hardware and software and drivers but their own.
i agree. i am very weary about buying software for that reason. I use Sonar now and I don't really love it. I use it mostly because I have it. I do like it but there is other software in my opinion that is better (like Ableton Live). For this reason I urge everyone to try the software before you buy it. I don't care how you do it just try it before you waste $400-$1,000 on a piece of software that you may hate 6 months from now.
Old 1st September 2007
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shanabit View Post
Asking out of ignorance here but I dont know of ANY item on the planet that cannot be RESOLD other than software, do you?
very true. Its almost like you're leasing it rather than buying it.
Old 1st September 2007
  #14
theother
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I switched from Sonar to Cubase.

Things are very different. I think you really have to read the manual.

I think Sonar is very good but Cubase is way better. Especially with audio editing.

I never had the last version of Sonar. But when you deleted an audio file from the arrange window it was gone for good. There was no Audio-Pool where all the audio files could be managed like in Cubase.

Audio comping is so much better in Cubase too. You double click an audio file and a window opens with all the different takes in seperate lanes. You cut/move/mute and close again to hear your comp'd version.

Cubase is more expensive but you also get more. IMO at least.
I also like that I can ReWire Sony's ACID into Cubase. The cool thing with Sonar though is that you have ACID-style editing already included.
Old 1st September 2007
  #15
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dmusic.
i agree with you bout some policies.
which is why i made a personal decision....not to buy anything...
1..i cant test before buying.
(includeing computers...my new dual core the vendor let me test for 2 weeks !!.
nice vendor.)
2. with dongles.
3. with heavy software upgrade pricing.
eg....new versions of multitrack software.

its a pity its such a money oriented world.
i support vendors that provide me with very fair pricing.
Old 1st September 2007
  #16
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u don't want sonar. Cubase is superior
Old 1st September 2007
  #17
Quote:
Originally Posted by theother View Post
I switched from Sonar to Cubase.

Things are very different. I think you really have to read the manual.

I think Sonar is very good but Cubase is way better. Especially with audio editing.

I never had the last version of Sonar. But when you deleted an audio file from the arrange window it was gone for good. There was no Audio-Pool where all the audio files could be managed like in Cubase.

Audio comping is so much better in Cubase too. You double click an audio file and a window opens with all the different takes in seperate lanes. You cut/move/mute and close again to hear your comp'd version.

Cubase is more expensive but you also get more. IMO at least.
I also like that I can ReWire Sony's ACID into Cubase. The cool thing with Sonar though is that you have ACID-style editing already included.
Yeah... when I DELETE something that means I really want to save it... heh

I can see how one would get used to that behavior but it's not how Sonar works. If you don't want to DELETE something, don't delete it.

Not sure why that should be so hard to understand. If you don't want to DELETE a track or tracks, you can just click their archive button(s), which effectively removes it from actively being in the project -- you're not wasting resources on it. But if you need it again -- with all its plugs and settings intact -- all you have to do is unclick the archive button and, boom, it's right there where it was, ready to go.

If you don't want to look at archived tracks just hide them. And audio files are directly accessible in the project's audio folder.

And, of course, there is a multi-level undo. (But I'd certainly LOVE to see an object-oriented UNDO as all complex programs should have!)


Also, you apparently didn't spend much time with Sonar -- since the "lane behavior" you describe in Cubase (a nice feature) is almost identical in Sonar. You click the show layers button and it shows the overlapping clips in separate lanes.

The overdub/loop command works quite similarly, too. You put it in loop record mode, cut a bunch of takes and then you can mute/solo the individual lanes/layers or mute individual clips for comping.

___________________

It does, indeed, suck that more and more software companies put onerous restrictions on transfer of their software -- but, let's face it, Sonar is hardly alone, there. Pro Tools can't be resold, as I understand it. Can Cubase and Nuendo be resold? Can Logic?

Also -- I would NOT give up on the notion of tranferring ownerhsip of the software. I would contact Cakewalk directly, explain the situation and see if they'll grant permission to transfer. (I couldn't find the official info but a lot of times there is the clause without express permission or somesuch.)
Old 1st September 2007
  #18
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Cubase can be sold just like selling PT. I guess one can´t use it w\o the hardware dongles... Cubase´s not as big doe.
Old 1st September 2007
  #19
Gear Maniac
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allencollins View Post
u don't want sonar. Cubase is superior
No, the fellow I want to work for uses Sonar. Sorry, I forgot to mention that.


Don't get to carried away with my thread guys. Popmann, sorry about your friend.
Old 15th September 2007
  #20
Quote:
Originally Posted by allencollins View Post
u don't want sonar. Cubase is superior
In Allen's humble opinion, it goes without saying...

heh
Old 15th September 2007
  #21
Gear Nut
 

I used Cubase for a while, but wasn't wowed by it. I've been a happy Sonar user for the last year or so, and have just upgraded my version.

I just love the way everything is laid out, and it seems to follow windows conventions very well. Remember those old MS adverts on TV? "I know windows"? That's how I would describe coming to Sonar.

Incidentally I'm looking at buying into Logic, but purely because so many people near me use it. I don't want to miss out on opportunities. I'll still keep using Sonar though.
Old 15th September 2007
  #22
theother
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
Yeah... when I DELETE something that means I really want to save it... heh

I can see how one would get used to that behavior but it's not how Sonar works. If you don't want to DELETE something, don't delete it.

Not sure why that should be so hard to understand. If you don't want to DELETE a track or tracks, you can just click their archive button(s), which effectively removes it from actively being in the project --
No need to be a smart-ass. There is something called EDITING. You don't like a take in the arrangement and delete it. But sometimes you want to retain the audio files for the project just in case you have to go back later.

With Cubase/Nuendo I can overwrite a take. Or delete it first from the arrangement and re-record, but it's always there in the project pool. Similar like in ProTools.

Also what's happened in the past, that someone hit the delete key by accident when an audio event was selected and it was gone forever from the hard drive.

Maybe you like to live a bit on the edge but Sonar is pushing it a bit for no reason.

What's wrong with something like 'delete all unused audio' that Cubase has?

I'm not a Sonar hater and I can see that some people like it because it's a neat little program. I liked it myself. IMO Cubase just has the edge and offers more advanced audio and MIDI editing and better mixing features in case you should need that.

I don't know about the last version of Sonar but automating tracks, VSTis & VSTs was also easier with Cubase and I preferred native VST instead of the wrapper (don't know if Sonar still uses that).
Old 15th September 2007
  #23
Quote:
Originally Posted by theother View Post
No need to be a smart-ass. There is something called EDITING. You don't like a take in the arrangement and delete it. But sometimes you want to retain the audio files for the project just in case you have to go back later.

With Cubase/Nuendo I can overwrite a take. Or delete it first from the arrangement and re-record, but it's always there in the project pool. Similar like in ProTools.

Also what's happened in the past, that someone hit the delete key by accident when an audio event was selected and it was gone forever from the hard drive.

Maybe you like to live a bit on the edge but Sonar is pushing it a bit for no reason.

What's wrong with something like 'delete all unused audio' that Cubase has?

I'm not a Sonar hater and I can see that some people like it because it's a neat little program. I liked it myself. IMO Cubase just has the edge and offers more advanced audio and MIDI editing and better mixing features in case you should need that.

I don't know about the last version of Sonar but automating tracks, VSTis & VSTs was also easier with Cubase and I preferred native VST instead of the wrapper (don't know if Sonar still uses that).
Wull, gee, I was kinda hoping the inclusion of the little green grinning guy [ heh ] would take the edge off my wise-assedness. Sorry to offend.


Agreed that stacking up unused/rejected takes in the audio folder gives one the greatest fail-safe against operator error -- and I'm sure Cubase has an audio-pool-cleaner to help you throw out the chaff when the time comes. Seems like that would be mandatory.


Anyhow, if you accidentally delete or overwrite a track in Sonar, the most direct recourse, unsurprisingly, is an undo. There's unlimited undo in Sonar. (But, yes, that will cause one to lose intervening work. I'm hoping for an object or single-action oriented undo at some point but... well... we'll see.)

I'll admit, the behavior is a little complex: if you undo a take and make changes, the take you undid is gone forever. However, if you delete a take, it remains in the audio folder, even after saving.

But, of course, the right way to store an out-take in Sonar is to click the archive button. That way, you know right where it is in the timeline, it can be reactivated with a quick click, but it's still not taking up any resources (other than disk space).


Like I said, I can see why the transition would be irksome and I can see how, if one was used to the store-em-all-and-let-the-user-delete approach to file management, that Sonar's more conventional approach might seem limiting or even precipitously risky. Me, I like not having my audio folder splitting at the seams with outtakes I never wanted in the first place. We all work differently and we all have different comfort sectors.

Or am I missing some aspect of the issue?

--------------

With re VST and VSTi implementation: I'm not familiar with contemporary Cubase so I'll defer to your broader experience. The VSTi and VST implementation in Sonar 6 is pretty close to the DX/DXi implementation with the notable exception that you have the option of engaging PDC or not on VST/VSTi's.


Anyhow, bottom line: I think we're lucky to have all these very respectable competitors; when one advances it pushes the others to get busy. And I think that's great.
Old 15th September 2007
  #24
Lives for gear
Happy Sonar user here. Also have Cubase and PT. While the latter programs do have a pool audio list available, Sonar's list is just a file list in the project's audio folder. It can be viewed in a small windows explorer window as needed. Sonar's Clean Audio command will delete any unused audio from the 'pool' (audio folder). I admit auditioning comps in tracks (lanes) is a PITA, but there are always gives and takes.
Old 17th September 2007
  #25
Hey, chrysb93065, I had a Cubase pal show me how track comping works in Cubase and it looked awfully similar to Sonar's current implementation...

Maybe you can give me some insight into how they differ.

If Cubase's is superior, maybe we should start lobbying for more changes (of course, the new Fall version should be out before long).

cheers
Old 17th September 2007
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theother View Post
Also what's happened in the past, that someone hit the delete key by accident when an audio event was selected and it was gone forever from the hard drive.

Maybe you like to live a bit on the edge but Sonar is pushing it a bit for no reason.
I think you might be a bit mistaken. It has been my experience that Sonar doesn't delete ANYTHING from the session folder. When you import an audio file, it makes a copy of it into the session folder. If you delete that file from the session, it still stays in the folder. There is no "region list" like in Pro Tools, but one thing that's great about Sonar's importing is that you can just drag files right into the session without using any menus. For that reason, you can use a simple windows folder as your region list.
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