The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Sonar is now free to all DAW Software
Old 5th April 2018
  #31
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thenoodle View Post
As echo'd by someone one else... and I don't want to rant...but.....wtf are you millennials thinking?
I understand your thinking. Your assumptions are off, though, in a few ways:

1) I'm not a millenial. <grin>

2) I've not supplied anybody with my personal info (SSN, address, nothing).

3) BandLab posted the reason for their needing people to give rights to them for sharing music. Specifically, they legally cannot allow a collaboration site to work if they are not granted rights by the people who upload to it. Their main speaker said they have absolutely no intention of using or violating the users rights, but they had to entitle themselves with the language they used in order for collaboration between musicians on the web to work.

4) I have and do hold all my personal compositions close to the chest. I have never uploaded or shared them on the web with anybody. But as a composer, and for the purpose of a group effort, I am in fact willing to GIVE some creative content and ideas for the purpose of something (a group of musicians in my city) who hopefully can leverage the uniqueness of our project to get attention we would not be able to do on our own. Kinda like the 80s "We Are The World" thing that they did, except in our case it is to help get St. Louis, MO some much needed attention. We are not contributing whole songs, but little bits (riffs) that we have acknowledged we are willing to give for the greater good. We contribute to one another's ideas to create a whole song. All credits will be given on every collaborated song, appropriately.

IF that song gets recognized, then the people who worked on THAT song, can use that to their own benefit, credit, their resume, as they pursue their career OUTSIDE the BandLab circle.

Last edited by Toddskins; 5th April 2018 at 10:42 PM..
Old 5th April 2018
  #32
I've participated in a few online collaborations before (with people I had had online relationships with for at least a couple years in a couple of cases but also in one case with a 'fan' who had contacted me out of the blue in another) and let's just say that if I hadn't already assumed as much before, I would have quickly learned that once two or more people (who aren't bound together in other ways, old pals, bandmates, etc) get involved in a collaborative creative project that falls anywhere on the democratic/anarchic continuum, any individual involved should firmly kiss away any notion of personal control over his own contributions.
Old 6th April 2018
  #33
Lives for gear
 
GeneHall's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
I've participated in a few online collaborations

kiss away any notion of personal control over his own contributions.
And any thoughts and feelings about embarking on such a journey spike immediately after hitting the send button. So true.
Old 6th April 2018
  #34
Gear Addict
 
sharke's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thenoodle View Post
Unbelievable. The first label I'll slap you with...no...second label after millennial... is..... hobbyist. And if that's the case, go ahead.... glut the sonic landscape with more undeveloped, will-not-stand-the-test-of-time, noodling around. It's just more noise for your short-attention span, connected crowd.
Have you any idea how much "will-not-stand-the-test-of-time, noodling around" bullsh*t there has been released by "real" artists over the last 50 years? Let's revisit the prog-rock catalog of the 1970's just to get us started.
Old 6th April 2018
  #35
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sharke View Post
Have you any idea how much "will-not-stand-the-test-of-time, noodling around" bullsh*t there has been released by "real" artists over the last 50 years? Let's revisit the prog-rock catalog of the 1970's just to get us started.
Going a little sideways, aren't you?

Let's say that you're right, which you are. What does that have to do with negating the effectiveness of a contract in place up front vs a disagreement after the fact and ensuing lawsuits.

Anything released in the era you focus on above (or any era)... commercially released... either had writer contracts in place before the release... or lawsuits later.

Guess what about cloud collaboration that results in let's say... a hit or a movie track or a commercial or a (fill in the blank)..... when there is no filed SR/Pa before hand? Much less a written agreement or trail of ownership in writing.

I certainly don't have to go through that scenario.

You're a hobbyist.... which of course, is the category of people free to upload to the clouds till the cows stop appearing on the chick-fil-a billboards here in LA.

If you're in this for a living, you already know the intent of my previous thread and you wouldn't go sideways with the words.
Old 6th April 2018
  #36
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneHall View Post
And any thoughts and feelings about embarking on such a journey spike immediately after hitting the send button. So true.
I usually get it someplace between plugging in the mic and hitting the red button: "Oh, gawsh, they're nice people, but do I really want to get into this?"


On one of the projects I got involved with around the turn of the century (a benefit CD for the gravely ill spouse of one of the musicians I was glad to try to help with) almost half the people decided to put on a face-to-face meetup at a bar in the greater LA area (some of the people from elsewhere in the country were visiting), a relaxed place where everyone could play. I was intrigued at first but by the time I got there after a nearly hour and a half drive, I was feeling like I should have stayed home -- I have two social modes these days, love-everybody-extrovert and wary-withdrawn-observer and not much in between. And, lately, I haven't exactly been the party boy of the western world. I ended up watching a few acts and pulling the nominal hostess aside and explaining I was feeling a bit 'agoraphobic' that night and had to go without meeting anyone but that she should pass along my warm regards. It was every single bit as awkward as it sounds. Sometimes what happens on the Internet should stay on the Internet... <-- rueful wink
Old 6th April 2018
  #37
Lives for gear
 
GeneHall's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
I usually get it someplace between plugging in the mic and hitting the red button: "Oh, gawsh, they're nice people, but do I really want to get into this?"
Oh man, I have been there!
There are a lot of very nice, talented people out there but it is how they conduct themselves that makes it all a less than appealing effort to contribute to. If a half way decent sound comes together they lose their freaking minds and it's posted everywhere and with no regard or concern for how any other collaborators might feel about it.
As embarrassing as it is to share-
I spent a fair chunk of last year, along with my partner, training a local primary school choir to accompany us on a few tracks we were developing. Everything was going great until the schools music teacher's husband decided to teach his own cover band one of the songs and debut it, complete with YouTube videos and the lot, not to mention also laying claim to also being one of the writers. Even there, we had a written agreement in place with the school and teacher which was completely disregarded. The self absorbed half talent husband of the teacher rushed to his own defence citing it was "great exposure" for us and we should be thanking him. I'm not a violent person but the urge to punch him in the face with a rock was almost unbearable. The time and investment all cheapened by a random person who inserted their self still gives me a eye twitch when I think about it.

I did at least manage to record the kids and do have a sentimental document of our effort but my intention was to rent a bus and take the kids all into a Melbourne studio and track them properly, release it properly, and really make it an event in all our lives, something we could all be proud of, that united us forever. The kids were really excited and more than upset with the teachers husband for betraying them too.
It was the last time I reached out in such a naive way, even though, according to our attorney in Sydney,we took every reasonable step to protect our assets and were as upfront about what we expected.
It's just incredible how people can take complete leave of their senses and display such disregard in a nanosecond, online collaboration on a site like BandLab, no thanks.
Before any other semi-pro or professional comes in here and tells me what a naive fool I was, I do already know, please no salt on a very open wound. I don't share this to further humiliate myself but perhaps so others might consider erring on the side of caution before cutting their own throat.
Once its out there, its gone forever.

Note- I found out about this all the same night I met the husband of the teacher in question at a recital for the kids, where we had already asked that the songs we were working on not be included in the recital, and they were not.. The tracks were entirely written by us.
Old 6th April 2018
  #38
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneHall View Post
Oh man, I have been there!
There are a lot of very nice, talented people out there but it is how they conduct themselves that makes it all a less than appealing effort to contribute to. If a half way decent sound comes together they lose their freaking minds and it's posted everywhere and with no regard or concern for how any other collaborators might feel about it.
As embarrassing as it is to share-
I spent a fair chunk of last year, along with my partner, training a local primary school choir to accompany us [...]
Oh, man, that's really a shame. Such good intentions. But, as noted, you can at least reassure yourself you did the right things to protect yourself. It's too bad the fellow didn't have the experience to understand the issues -- not to mention listen to the stipulations and respect them.
Old 7th April 2018
  #39
Gear Addict
 
sharke's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thenoodle View Post
Going a little sideways, aren't you?

Let's say that you're right, which you are. What does that have to do with negating the effectiveness of a contract in place up front vs a disagreement after the fact and ensuing lawsuits.

Anything released in the era you focus on above (or any era)... commercially released... either had writer contracts in place before the release... or lawsuits later.

Guess what about cloud collaboration that results in let's say... a hit or a movie track or a commercial or a (fill in the blank)..... when there is no filed SR/Pa before hand? Much less a written agreement or trail of ownership in writing.

I certainly don't have to go through that scenario.

You're a hobbyist.... which of course, is the category of people free to upload to the clouds till the cows stop appearing on the chick-fil-a billboards here in LA.

If you're in this for a living, you already know the intent of my previous thread and you wouldn't go sideways with the words.
The vast majority of musicians (and DAW users) in this world are hobbyists who harbor few, if any, financial aspirations for their music. And indeed, of the producers who are releasing solo stuff independently (often tracked and mixed in their homes), few are making significant money from it. There's really nothing wrong with this and there is plenty of room for the hobbyist in today's music scene. In fact some of the most interesting music I hear these days is put out either by hobbyists or home producers who get signed by small, obscure labels. There's something to be said for expressing yourself artistically without any commercial pressure.

People are collaborating on music online without any commercial aspirations, and there's nothing wrong with this. As for "going sideways" in my previous comment, I don't think I was. I was responding to your characterization of the hobbyist scene as "undeveloped, will-not-stand-the-test-of-time, noodling around." It doesn't seem like moving sideways at all to point out that there is plenty of commercial music which also fits this description.
Old 7th April 2018
  #40
Lives for gear
 
mikeyman's Avatar
 

will BandLab Cakewalk run a 32 bit version of a Waves compressor or will a 32bit plugin work with BandLab Cakewalk.
Old 7th April 2018
  #41
Lives for gear
 
Quetz's Avatar
@thenoodle

That's a very strange and small-minded outlook.

Everyone is a hobbyist until they have something released commercially.

David Gray was still a 'hobbyist' when he wrote and recorded White Ladder.

Annie Lennox and Dave Stewart were 'hobbyists' when they wrote Sweet Dreams.
Etc, etc.

Do you really think the only people entitled to make, or that even should be making music are the ones that are already successful?
Old 7th April 2018
  #42
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyman View Post
will BandLab Cakewalk run a 32 bit version of a Waves compressor or will a 32bit plugin work with BandLab Cakewalk.
Yep!
Old 7th April 2018
  #43
Lives for gear
 
mikeyman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
Yep!

that's funny because it would not install it?Says it is corrupt and my computer shut down when I tried to force it.And I don't think it installed Console 1 either.Ill keep trying
Old 7th April 2018
  #44
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quetz View Post
@thenoodle

Everyone is a hobbyist until they have something released commercially.

David Gray was still a 'hobbyist' when he wrote and recorded White Ladder.

Annie Lennox and Dave Stewart were 'hobbyists' when they wrote Sweet Dreams.
Etc, etc.

Do you really think the only people entitled to make, or that even should be making music are the ones that are already successful?
I won't even get into a mindset like yours. Suffice it to say, we probably don't operate in similar circles.
Old 7th April 2018
  #45
Lives for gear
 
mikeyman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
Yep!
can I take that back the CLA compressor loaded into Cakewalk the second time I tried but not the Console 1 or EZdrummer for some strange reason.They all load into my PT's10 daw

Last edited by mikeyman; 7th April 2018 at 11:36 PM..
Old 7th April 2018
  #46
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyman View Post
that's funny because it would not install it?Says it is corrupt and my computer shut down when I tried to force it.And I don't think it installed Console 1 either.Ill keep trying
I didn't test Cakewalk's ability to load 32bit apps natively. I did though, JBridge a bunch of 32bit test stuff (jbridge 1.74) and those work just fine in the current Cakewalk.
Old 8th April 2018
  #47
Lives for gear
 
GeneHall's Avatar
@Quetz
ABSOLUTELY WRONG.Dave Stewart was first signed at 16 working as a writer and performer with a folk group. Over the years he has written or professionally collaborated on hundreds of songs, I dare say an equal share of released and unreleased material. He has, in addition to being a life long music professional, a pro studio owner, label owner, and publisher. Annie Lennox began her career as a professional session singer .
Songwriter, performer, studio owner, label owner David Gray is another lousy example for the point you are trying to make here. Some quick research will dispell any notions you have that these people have ever been anything but professionals. Only in the past 7-8 years did Mr Gray sell his studio to Paul Epworth, not sure what he called it but Mr Epworth calls it Church Studios, may have heard of it. Mr Gray has always aspired for the career he has had and continues to have today.

There is absolutely nothing strange or short sighted about Noodles perspective, it is just different to your understanding of his/her experience or the experiences of other professional writers.


Last edited by GeneHall; 8th April 2018 at 12:36 AM..
Old 8th April 2018
  #48
Lives for gear
 
mikeyman's Avatar
 

only VST and Direct x audio plugins can be usednever heard of DIRECT X.
find it kinda funny they were saying Console 1 intergrates well with sonar..Maybe i'm doing something wrong.Softubes TAPE plug loads in maybe Console 1 is another type of plug.It didn't load in any of my Soundtoys plugs..This version is a watered down version of Sonar Platnium

i'll stick with PT's

Last edited by mikeyman; 8th April 2018 at 01:19 AM..
Old 8th April 2018
  #49
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyman View Post
only VST and Direct x audio plugins can be usednever heard of DIRECT X.
find it kinda funny they were saying Console 1 intergrates well with sonar..Maybe i'm doing something wrong.Softubes TAPE plug loads in maybe Console 1 is another type of plug.It didn't load in any of my Soundtoys plugs..This version is a watered down version of Sonar Platnium

i'll stick with PT's

You've never heard of DirectX? Ouch!! That even makes me feel old What daw and audio apps were you using in 1997?

I haven't used any of my dx stuff since vst sort of took over many years ago, but I did test install some old stuff on the new Cakewalk like the old vb dx rack software, ancient antares mic modeller and some directx stuff that Sound Forge used to have in the 90s.

Haven't yet tried all the vst/vsti stuff I have, but everything I have pointed CW to so far, has loaded and worked great on first, fast tests.
Old 8th April 2018
  #50
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyman View Post
can I take that back the CLA compressor loaded into Cakewalk the second time I tried but not the Console 1 or EZdrummer for some strange reason.They all load into my PT's10 daw

Quote:
Originally Posted by thenoodle View Post
I didn't test Cakewalk's ability to load 32bit apps natively. I did though, JBridge a bunch of 32bit test stuff (jbridge 1.74) and those work just fine in the current Cakewalk.
Well, the VST scanner found and integrated them. I didn't try them all in action but a couple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyman View Post
only VST and Direct x audio plugins can be usednever heard of DIRECT X.
find it kinda funny they were saying Console 1 intergrates well with sonar..Maybe i'm doing something wrong.Softubes TAPE plug loads in maybe Console 1 is another type of plug.It didn't load in any of my Soundtoys plugs..This version is a watered down version of Sonar Platnium

i'll stick with PT's
I had to give up my last couple of Direct X plugins when I moved to Win 7... it was kind of a heartbreaker as the Timeworks compressorX and the CW version of their EQ [From Sonar II/2002?] were my faves.

Or maybe you were saying you never heard of (the Win-specific) DX plugin protocol... (I suppose I should backtrack the thread)... Which would actually be pretty understandable.
Old 8th April 2018
  #51
Lives for gear
 
mikeyman's Avatar
 

not sure why they wouldn't inclued all plugins but for free there has to be a catch.Still for someone just starting out I suppose there a plenty of plugins in there included of all types delay reverb ect.
Old 8th April 2018
  #52
Lives for gear
 
GeneHall's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyman View Post
not sure why they wouldn't inclued all plugins but for free there has to be a catch.Still for someone just starting out I suppose there a plenty of plugins in there included of all types delay reverb ect.
Companies such as Overloud, and I believe Boz Labs have provided a pathway for SPLAT users to download the plugins [that were once offered with the platinum version of Sonar] and use in whatever DAW they migrated to, including Cakewalk by BandLab.
Contact each manufacturuer directly and provided it was not a time sensitive offer, you'll still have those plugins you came to rely upon.
BandLab only acquired the IP assets of CW and did not inherit any agreements or responsibility to offer those plugins.
Your AD2 drums acquired via platinum purchase will still work in CW by BL and any other DAW, the only caveat is you can't sell it along, which is fair.
Old 8th April 2018
  #53
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by thenoodle View Post
Unbelievable. The first label I'll slap you with...no...second label after millennial... is..... hobbyist. And if that's the case, go ahead.... glut the sonic landscape with more undeveloped, will-not-stand-the-test-of-time, noodling around. It's just more noise for your short-attention span, connected crowd.

If you really consider yourself a pro who is constructing art....even if only in your heart or in the eyes of your mother..... and.... you value your ability and individualism and what only-you can bring to a piece of art created (or a carefully decided-on collaborator)...... then.....wtf are you doing, belittling your individual creative energy by............. throwing your work out to the masses.....many of whom are morons?

Do you not value your own abilities? Do you not understand holding creations closely, if not for personal reasons, than, for the reasons that if you are a professional or aspire to be.... your work is valueless to anyone who may pay (and no, I don't mean the public.... I mean those who will pay BIG because they see their angle on how to utilize your work and they themselves may not even ever release it to the public after they pay you astronomical sums).....if they see that you have fired your work in all kinds of stages out into the ozone and into the hands of the moron masses..... before you even completed it.

The masses may be unwashed, but as a group they have far more money than most professional musicians.

I am not a pro musician but I do have business experience and possess a keen appreciation for the power of connected services and the network effect. Collaborative capability built into a universally available DAW platform opens up a great many revenue-generating opportunities for the savvy professional with the imagination to leverage that platform.

So if I were a professional musician or producer or engineer, I'd probably be writing an email to the BandLab team right now with questions on how I could leverage their platform and vision to grow my business.
Old 9th April 2018
  #54
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyman View Post
not sure why they wouldn't inclued all plugins but for free there has to be a catch.Still for someone just starting out I suppose there a plenty of plugins in there included of all types delay reverb ect.
My understanding is that this first Band Lab launch is just the core DAW product. In the coming weeks Bandlab will port over the old Platinum specific plug-ins and instruments. There's a lot of content yet unreleased. I use Sonar Pro as my primary DAW and getting an upgrade to the Platimum product went very smoothly. Do exercise some patience and run the VST scan several times. I have about 725 plugs - and it took probably 2 passes before all of them were picked up. This release is quite stable on my set-up which is an older win 7 pro install. It's a very potent DAW and it's midi integration can't be touched by any other DAW I'm aware of. - just because it was rescued and is being distributed for free doesn't diminish its' capability.
Old 9th April 2018
  #55
Lives for gear
 
mikeyman's Avatar
 

thanks ill keep trying
Old 9th April 2018
  #56
Lives for gear
 
Quetz's Avatar
Can Sonar be used as a rewire slave?
Old 9th April 2018
  #57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quetz View Post
Can Sonar be used as a rewire slave?
Cakewalk - Knowledge Base - The Complete Guide to Using Rewire — Part 1
Old 9th April 2018
  #58
Lives for gear
 
Quetz's Avatar
Old 9th April 2018
  #59
Lives for gear
 
ponzi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevola View Post
The masses may be unwashed, but as a group they have far more money than most professional musicians...
Three guys formed Boston and were engineers at kodak making about $70,000 a year each. Their salaries were higher than the money they made off the first album which was a huge hit. Needless to say, subsequent albums put them solidly into the big money.
Old 10th April 2018
  #60
JAT
Lives for gear
Cakewalk by BandLab (CbB) is the free DAW. It is basically a stripped out version of last year's SONAR w/ a couple of updates. You get the built-in PC channels (I believe, I haven't downloaded it yet) but none of the other VST/VSTis (again, I think). The extra software (I suppose CbB does have the Sonitus suite and a few other older DX and other plugs, which are enough for basic, clean mixing). From what I can gather BL will re-release the "premium" effects/synths for sale (what that means for us current users of Rapture Pro and the SSL channel etc. is not yet clear). And they should continue to bug fix CbB and add a few new features, tho because it is "free" I wouldn't expect much. Maybe they'll add pay features like scoring.

It really ain't rocket science. I would expect one such service like BandLab's will become mega big, but then all social media formats seems to be phased, with napster getting replaced by Apple music/Amazo, FB for myspace, etc.
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump