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What is the effect on the choir in “Man In The Mirror”?
Old 28th August 2006
  #1
Viking
 
Bruce Swedien's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
What is the effect on the choir in “Man In The Mirror”?

All.....

Has anyone here ever wondered about this - What is the effect on the choir in “Man In The Mirror”? - I have been asked that question many, many times!!!

Bruce
Old 28th August 2006
  #2
Lives for gear
 
Chris Parsons's Avatar
 

Bruce! What's the effect on the choir in "Man In The Mirror"???
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Old 28th August 2006
  #3
Lives for Jesus
 
stevep's Avatar
Talking

Please do Tell ...........heh heh heh



steve



Old 28th August 2006
  #4
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Mike Jasper's Avatar
I would guess that it's an Evantide Harmonizer, but I guess it isn't since that's so obvious.

Jasper
Old 28th August 2006
  #5
Dor
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Dor's Avatar
Bruce, I'm guessing it's just Michael's ultra tight harmonies.
Old 28th August 2006
  #6
Led
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I always thought it was just the sound of the room they were recorded in. I certainly remember the first time I heard it where they kick in on the word "change" and it feel like everything gets like twice as wide. I also loved the "hoo hoos". A great arrangement and a great recording. I'll have to have another listen when I get to the studio today. Always makes my hair stand up, that part of the track. Any hints?
Nicely done Viking.
Cheers
Old 28th August 2006
  #7
Lowdbrent
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Swedien View Post
All.....

Has anyone here ever wondered about this - What is the effect on the choir in “Man In The Mirror”? - I have been asked that question many, many time!!!

Bruce

I thought that I had read that you recorded the choir with two 47s in M/S config. Was that right?
Old 28th August 2006
  #8
Gear Maniac
 

That great big sound....

If I remember correctly it's .....Mono!!!

One mic with the chorus positioned around it.

Is that correct?

Have I been under a wrong impression all this time?

BTW: It's great to have you here.
Old 29th August 2006
  #9
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alloysound's Avatar
 

My guess / recollection

M50's Omni X-Y ??
Old 29th August 2006
  #10
Gear Head
 
kennyfm's Avatar
 

I'm not sure what the technical effect was but I would assume having the Winans and Andrae Crouch folks as the choir contributed to the great sound on the background
Old 29th August 2006
  #11
Led
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Ok, I've had a listen now, definately some faint swirling there. Is it a leslie cabinet, or maybe a bit o dimension-d? Or possibly some tight rapid rate flanging?
I'm leaning towards the leslie cabinet,in parallel with the original vocals.
Yes, that is my final answer, lock it in please.
Old 29th August 2006
  #12
Gear nut
 
nadsatrebel's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Swedien View Post
All.....

Has anyone here ever wondered about this - What is the effect on the choir in “Man In The Mirror”? - I have been asked that question many, many time!!!

Bruce
Vocal Arrangement by Andrae Crouch


Old 29th August 2006
  #13
Gear nut
 
texdc's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Goodman View Post
If I remember correctly it's .....Mono!!!
Hmm...not likely as Bruce seems to favor the stereophonic sound.

Care to set the record straight, Mr. Swedien?
Old 29th August 2006
  #14
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BigAl's Avatar
 

Arrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Swedien View Post
All.....

Has anyone here ever wondered about this - What is the effect on the choir in “Man In The Mirror”? - I have been asked that question many, many time!!!

Bruce
Humm....I think it's a true stereo effect with the mic positions. After you got the stereo link recorded, then you put a slight L-pan to it. I also believe that the choir stood back from the mic at a distance.

Well...I just took a shot at it. You guys are much better than me.

--Al
Old 29th August 2006
  #15
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lasso's Avatar
 

Doesn't sound that like much effect at all - except for what sounds like a litle distortion - maybe a hard driven tape dealy? At the very last line of the choir it seems to wobble a bit. My guess - hard driven tape / tape dealy
Old 29th August 2006
  #16
BoW
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ear training

Hello, Bruce Swedien,

could it be..

A pair of Neumann M49's in Blumlein-Configuration. I once read in an article, that you use to position the choir in a circle around the microphones and that this setup is able to capture even the physical movements of the choir.

Before recording, the acoustic environment is 'predesigned' with an array of tube-traps to meet your demands of the right reflection-absorbance mix of the emitting soundfield from the choir.

Last, I think, there might be a little blend of EMT 250 reverb. I don't know that device (we had only a 244 at the Electronic Studio of our Conservatory, that sounded quite different compared to a Lexicon reverb), but, as my sound memory doesn't betray me, I can recall a silvery shimmer in the reverb-tail, that is said, is unique to that device.

But please don't nail me to the cross, if I might be wrong.

Boris
Old 29th August 2006
  #17
Viking
 
Bruce Swedien's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
There is NO effect on the choir on “Man In The Mirror”.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoW View Post
Hello, Bruce Swedien,

could it be..

A pair of Neumann M49's in Blumlein-Configuration. I once read in an article, that you use to position the choir in a circle around the microphones and that this setup is able to capture even the physical movements of the choir.

Before recording, the acoustic environment is 'predesigned' with an array of tube-traps to meet your demands of the right reflection-absorbance mix of the emitting soundfield from the choir.

Last, I think, there might be a little blend of EMT 250 reverb. I don't know that device (we had only a 244 at the Electronic Studio of our Conservatory, that sounded quite different compared to a Lexicon reverb), but, as my sound memory doesn't betray me, I can recall a silvery shimmer in the reverb-tail, that is said, is unique to that device.

But please don't nail me to the cross, if I might be wrong.

Boris
Boris.....

WOW!!!! Yes!! Yes!! Yes!! You are absolutely right! (Well, almost!) You've been reading, and better yet, reading and remembering!!!

Here's the story....

"Man In The Mirror"....

As far as I'm concerned, the song, "Man In The Mirror" is the centerpiece, musically speaking, of the Michael Jackson album “BAD”.

I recorded the Andre Crouch choir on 'Man In The Mirror' with only two microphones. I used my favorite pair of Neumann M-49’s in the classic “Blumlein Pair” method. One of my unquestionably favorite true, stereophonic microphone techniques.

This is perhaps the best known of all single point stereo microphone techniques.

What is the effect on the choir in “Man In The Mirror”?

In my lectures and seminars, around the world, I have often been asked, “What is the effect that you used on the choir on “Man In The Mirror”? Isn’t that something?

There is NO effect on the choir on “Man In The Mirror”. Or very, very little!!! And Yes Boris, there is a little taste of my EMT 250 on the choir.

I try to explaining by saying that the recording of the choir on “Man In The Mirror”, is a classic,(But simple) stereo microphone technique! Of course, in addition, you have the best gospel choir in the world, in one of the best studios in world! (Westlake Audio’s gorgeous, Studio ‘D’, in Hollywood)

This wonderful piece of music has a graceful, natural sounding, dynamic curve to it. From the transparent, burnished brass synthesized bells in the intro, to the Andre Crouch choir that comes in at the modulation and, of course, the music climaxes with the huge ending.

Boris, you are a bonafide-top-drawer-gasser!!!

Bruce Swedien

Old 29th August 2006
  #18
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RaGe's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Swedien View Post
... From the transparent, burnished brass synthesized bells in the intro ...
[OT]

Hello Bruce,
I've always wondered what machine that was (Synclavier maybe), if your fantastic memory allows
I used to play that song in high school and got close tweaking my DX7.

Regis

[/OT]
Old 30th August 2006
  #19
Viking
 
Bruce Swedien's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
Works, doesn't it???

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaGe View Post
[OT]

Hello Bruce,
I've always wondered what machine that was (Synclavier maybe), if your fantastic memory allows
I used to play that song in high school and got close tweaking my DX7.

Regis

[/OT]
Yes Regis, that is a Synclavier. And the burnished, brass bells that I am refering to are a very stock Synclavier sound. Works, doesn't it???

Bruce
Old 8th September 2006
  #20
Gear Head
 
grhuntuk's Avatar
 

Hey Bruce,

What is the deal behind the rhythm of the kick drum?

i immediately went and listened to the track on a Apple eMac G4 on the in built speakers after reading your post. It had never occured to me before, but i found the rhythm really odd.

Who programmed the drums?

I would be extremely grateful if you can answer this.

Many thanks for such amazing stories. heh

Gareth Hunt.
Old 25th September 2006
  #21
Gear interested
 

lectures

hey bruce.

i live in ireland. any plans to give a lecture here???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
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