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COMPRESSION IS FOR KIDS!!!!
Old 17th September 2006
  #61
Gear addict
 

Howdy Doodie All & Salve Bruce el Mutiplo Platino Vikingo...

I never use compressors to make the signal louder or a limiter to stop from going over in high quality wide rande material. A compressor in a mix is only used as an effect, for example to sustain the sound of a funky rhythm guitar. God damn do it dislike this cranked up contemporary kiddie rock creepedy crap where the ears are ringing after three minutes......

... of course advertising agencies ask for that destruction for their tv ads, then I do it, I mean man has to live from something

Asta La Vista Insalada Mista Babeeeeee...

.
Old 18th September 2006
  #62
Gear Addict
 
tonymite's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Swedien View Post
Mike....

Excellent....

What I said was... - "The real goal of music recording is to preserve the physical energy of the music and the musical statement itself. If those values are tampered with, the music will not be true to it's original intent..."

I could have been refering to "Transient Response"... A favorite topic with me... Almost as important to me as 'OVER-COMPRESSION!!!"

HOWEVER -

Good transient response is especially important when recording acoustic instruments. This is one case where it’s extremely important for one to have equipment that is able to capture as much of the initial transient as possible, and all it’s accompanying delicate details.

In the music that I am normally involved in, I have always felt that good transient content is one of the very most important components of the recorded image. I would even go so far as to say that transient response has at it’s core a direct relationship to the emotional impact of a recording. Particularly in the main genre’s of music that I record.... namely R & B and ‘Pop’ recordings.

The faithful recording and reproduction of sound source transients makes the strong rhythmic elements in R & B and ‘Pop’ recordings much more dramatic. These are the elements that are so important, such as the ‘Kick’ or bass drum, the ‘Snare’ drum, hand-claps, percussion...etc.

I think that well recorded transients give R & B and ‘Pop’ recordings a feeling of tremendous energy.

To me, the excessive use of compression and limiting diminish the drama of sound source transients in recorded music. Along that same line of thinking, I should also point out that I have never been(and probably never will be) a big fan of dynamics compression anywhere during the recording process.

To me, when R & B and ‘Pop’ recordings are over-compressed and over-limited, they lack the extremely fundamental qualities of both primitive energy and smooth high-frequencies. The reason that over-compressed and over-limited recordings lose high end energy, is that much of the sound energy in a recording is concentrated in the lower frequencies. These low-end signals will negatively influence a wide-band compressor’s operation, causing higher frequencies to be attenuated during peaks in level, making the music sound dull and lifeless.

Personally, I love transients and what they do to dramatize music. Let them live! If a recording is over-compressed, it will always be over-compressed. In other words, it will sound dull and lifeless forever!!!

Sorry, Mike....

Bruce Swedien


Bruce, may I thank you for sharing with us - before I make a dik of myself:

-Now.. I have a scar over my left eye because of Billy Jean. Thriller is branded in my head and is Reference/benchmark etc..etc..
I love tape - I love 70's disco/funk- I also love good digital and 'hi-fi' etc..etc... I love compression/ I love transients. I think I have bi-polar

If it is important to preserve transients, why do I notice your choice of Royer ribbon mic's on Hi-hats and overheads when they have that high-end roll off and as far as I'm aware, small-diaphragm condenser's would have more of a transient response and higher slew rate. Is this the match the mic's to the recording medium deal here?? The "we use to compensate for tape" buzz that use to happen when tape was in ??

Thanks in Advanced
Tony Mite
Old 19th September 2006
  #63
Gear interested
 

hey everybody and bruce,
im under shock, might be stupid questions, but....
ok....31 years old, into music since birth...please don´t crush my world.....
did i really get it right, that b.s. would use NO compression at all if possible? on records that are supposed to hit the charts, being played on the radio, etc....no compression?!? or are we talking about mix buss compression only? does he mean to use compression on tracks in a "healthy" way...? or really NO compression??? michael jackson is uncompressed???
recently i was forced to mix a whole album with almost no compression(artist right next to me), at least no buss comp, which was unusual enough for me, on the individual tracks only here and there a bit. was a hard way, but was fun also and really a different sound after many fights with the artist..
the fun went on with the mastering...i delivered "very" dynamic(what is this you might ask these days...) mixes and we had sterling sound and gateway mastering the album. two completley different records! sterling was..: "oh..this is soft...lets squezze it...)-->bad choice.
gateway did the right job, understood the artist and let it live and breath.
for all you "no compression users" - adam ayan might be your man
ok, fill me in please
andi
Old 19th September 2006
  #64
Viking
 
Bruce Swedien's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
Excellent!

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonymite View Post
Bruce, may I thank you for sharing with us - before I make a dik of myself:

-Now.. I have a scar over my left eye because of Billy Jean. Thriller is branded in my head and is Reference/benchmark etc..etc..
I love tape - I love 70's disco/funk- I also love good digital and 'hi-fi' etc..etc... I love compression/ I love transients. I think I have bi-polar

If it is important to preserve transients, why do I notice your choice of Royer ribbon mic's on Hi-hats and overheads when they have that high-end roll off and as far as I'm aware, small-diaphragm condenser's would have more of a transient response and higher slew rate. Is this the match the mic's to the recording medium deal here?? The "we use to compensate for tape" buzz that use to happen when tape was in ??

Thanks in Advanced
Tony Mite

Tony......

Excellent!

Tony, this is an excellent observation-------->If it is important to preserve transients, why do I notice your choice of Royer ribbon mic's on Hi-hats and overheads when they have that high-end roll off<---------------Brucie answers Tony's excellent observation....

Tony, The Royer's hear and preserve all sounds, and in particular high-end and transients in a very natural way, AND I MUST ADD - in a way very similar to our own hearing.... COMPRESSORS CANNOT DO THIS!!!

One of the all-time advantages of using Ribbon microphone is that they add silkiness to the recorded sound-field because a good ribbon mike such as the Royer R-122 rolls off the higher frequencies slightly.

Bruce Swedien




Old 19th September 2006
  #65
Lives for gear
 
octatonic's Avatar
 

Compressors are like guns.
Hence...
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.
.
.
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Compressors don't kill music. People kill music.

JR
Old 19th September 2006
  #66
Gear Addict
 
tonymite's Avatar
 

Quote:

Tony, The Royer's hear and preserve all sounds, and in particular high-end and transients in a very natural way, AND I MUST ADD - in a way very similar to our own hearing.... COMPRESSORS CANNOT DO THIS!!!

One of the all-time advantages of using Ribbon microphone is that they add silkiness to the recorded sound-field because a good ribbon mike such as the Royer R-122 rolls off the higher frequencies slightly.
Bruce, I live for silk ... but I wonder if there's more to it than using a shelving filter to roll off the top end. At least this way you would be cutting the noise down too. I just can't see how "cutting" can be "adding" (the silk).

Tony Mite
Old 20th September 2006
  #67
Here for the gear
 

Dear Mr. Swedien,

How do you think about all the singers out there that like and prefer to sing thru a good compressor while recording and probably monitoring it thru their headphones while tracking. I do speak of gear like a good optical or diode compressor like LA2A and 1176...like e.g. Michael Jackson (if i'm not informed false he uses 1176 alot / 'Thriller?')

Am i right?

Kind regards,

Martin Haverland
Flensburg, Germany
Old 21st September 2006
  #68
Gear Addict
 
tonymite's Avatar
 

Excellent!

Tony, this is an excellent observation-------->If it is important to preserve transients, why do I notice your choice of Royer ribbon mic's on Hi-hats and overheads when they have that high-end roll off<---------------Brucie answers Tony's excellent observation....

Tony, The Royer's hear and preserve all sounds, and in particular high-end and transients in a very natural way, AND I MUST ADD - in a way very similar to our own hearing.... COMPRESSORS CANNOT DO THIS!!!

One of the all-time advantages of using Ribbon microphone is that they add silkiness to the recorded sound-field because a good ribbon mike such as the Royer R-122 rolls off the higher frequencies slightly.

I'm just curious how a ribbon mic "adds" silkiness by rolling off top end? If we were to filter it using say a Shelving EQ, would we not also reduce noise?
What is this ribbon magic ??
Old 23rd September 2006
  #69
Gear nut
 

Compression

Hi Bruce,

I can't thank you enough for you being around this forum and being so open to everyone interested in recording music.

I latched onto some of your suggestions a few pages back and applied them to the record I've been working on ... the results are breathtaking.

I can't begin to tell you how different the music is now, each track speaks to you much more than ever before, the faders feel different, the stereo buss acts different, and I'm using less F/X, EQ and for the 1st time in my career NO Compression on the drums.

I found out that I have more control of the placement of audio in the spectrum without compression. Things just stay where "I" put them. If I want something right out the front in your face a compressor might be a good way to do that, but that's not the kind of dynamics I'm interested in. Mastering this record was a booger too, but Johnatan Russell did a fabulous job over at Masterfonics. We tore that studio apart trying to preserve my "Sonic Personality". I'm sure when we were done we ended up with bare wire and a knob !!!

I've got a few really hard to please clients too, but immediately I've seen a huge difference on the look of their faces. Smiles are as wide as the Grand Canyon and comments have ranged everywhere from: Good Lord, ****, F!*K, That's Incredible, WOWSA!!!!! just to name a few.

This is going to be a life changing record for me ... nothing will ever be the same again.

Thank You Sooooooooooooooo much.

Russ Ragsdale
Nashville
Old 24th September 2006
  #70
Gear Addict
 
synthetic's Avatar
 

Bruce, can you give some examples of when you DO use compression? Not buss compression but track compression. I remember reading that you have an original 1176, given to you by Bill Putnam, and that it has been used on all MJ vocals. When else do you compress, and what are some ballpark settings? (4:1, 8:1. etc.)

Thanks,
Jeff Laity
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