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Bitwig 3 The Grid Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 2 weeks ago
  #1
Gear Nut
 

Bitwig 3 The Grid



Look pretty cool

Anyone else excited about this?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #2
HSi
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I'm glad we can increase the woices.

Hmmm, I would have been a lot more impressed 4 years ago. Softube modular has really kicked in with all the new modules like the mutable instruments stuff.

It's a interesting daw that's for sure. Their demo is too stingy for me to get to any level with it, which is a shame because I have hardware that works perfectly with it.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #3
Here for the gear
Yes, I'm very excited. Will be buying it very shortly but it looks like what I've been looking for for a very long time.

I've been working with the Nord Modular stuff for a long time, largely because I've not found a software modular environment that's better in terms of workflow.

Bitwig Grid looks like it will be, because it looks like they've really spent a lot of time thinking about how to make it fast and simple to actually do things!

Every other software modular environment seems either to fall into the 'visual programming language' or the 'skeumorphic hardware modular' categories, and both are slower and more laborious for me to get stuff done than NM

Visual programming languages like Reaktor/Max/PD are powerful and flexible but it takes a lot of time to get even relatively simple stuff going and are structurally rigid once you have something complex going.

Skeumorphic modulars like Softube/Reaktor Blocks/VCV Rack can sound cool but largely replicate the limitations of the hardware modulars they're based on - monophonic (unless you want to make life really hard for yourself) and laborious in terms of having to e.g. hook up an EG to a keyboard in and a VCA to get enveloped note gating + all the attendant cable connections to even get an amplitude envelope going. Plus they tend to be very hard to visually parse when you have a big patch going on. (Especially because the fact that Euro modules are taller than they are wide and monitors are wider than they are tall makes skeumorphic modules inherently inefficient in terms of screen real estate! ).

I'm amazed really that it's taken 15 years for anyone to consider these issues and come up with something better than the Nord Modular but from what I've seen so far I think Bitwig might have done it. I'm very impressed with the videos I've seen.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #4
HSi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by line View Post
Skeumorphic modulars like Softube/Reaktor Blocks/VCV Rack can sound cool but largely replicate the limitations of the hardware modulars they're based on - monophonic (unless you want to make life really hard for yourself) and laborious in terms of having to e.g. hook up an EG to a keyboard in and a VCA to get enveloped note gating + all the attendant cable connections to even get an amplitude envelope going.
Yeah softube modular is a pain, but, about 6 blocks and you have a seemingly infinite world of sound, most of all if you have even 1 or 2 of the mutable instruments ones...plus you can save presets and set ups.

People that are interested in this should check out audulus

http://audulus.com/

<<sounds like they recorded onto vhs...


It's iOS and Mac only, it cloud saves between devices, it's pretty deep. There's an AU as well. Endorsed bu Richard Devine, but then Richard Devine would endorse a metal bin full of angry lobsters if it made a good noise.

iOS app has been on sale since Christmas, but the Mac app/au is $50/gbp now, still cheap.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #5
Here for the gear
Yeah, I have an Audulus license. Should have mentioned it as you're right, I think it's the only other modular environment that doesn't fit into the two categories I mentioned.

It's visually much cleaner than the skeumorphic modulars.

I should give it another go - my memory is that in use I found it quite fiddly in use despite its very clean visual style. But maybe they've improved it. And as you say it's very affordable!
Old 1 week ago
  #6
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by line View Post
I'm amazed really that it's taken 15 years for anyone to consider these issues and come up with something better than the Nord Modular but from what I've seen so far I think Bitwig might have done it. I'm very impressed with the videos I've seen.
Not as great a The Grid, but a couple of years ago Audulus was released for iOS and macOS.

http://audulus.com/


Edit: nevermind I just saw it posted by a previous commenter :P
Old 1 week ago
  #7
Here for the gear
 

Loving the grid. It sounds great and is very fun. I’ve lost some sleep to it.
Old 1 week ago
  #8
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Bitwig's Grid is really fun to use. It is hands down the fastest easiest workflow I have tried for software modular.

One can just drop an LFO or Env into the grid and like the regular Bitwig modulation, activate the mod arrow and then just start turning knobs to modulate stuff. Don't need a single wire!

Unlike the modulars that are hardware representations, every parameter can be modulated. Doesn't need inputs and outputs for everything. And where wires are needed, it often auto-wires.

The Bitwig Sampler Osc is also a Grid module. So it is easy to work with samples, including multi-samples, granular, wavetable. You can do some lovely audio-rate modulations!

The Grid can be set from 1 - 64 voices... has Voice Stacking up to 5 and is automatically working with MPE.

I was playing around with creating a generative never repeating patch and made this. No spaghetti jumble of wires. Dry, no FX

https://dandelionaudio.com/sound/grid-generative-01.mp3
Old 1 week ago
  #9
HSi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by draig View Post
Bitwig's Grid is really fun to use. It is hands down the fastest easiest workflow I have tried for software modular.

One can just drop an LFO or Env into the grid and like the regular Bitwig modulation, activate the mod arrow and then just start turning knobs to modulate stuff. Don't need a single wire!

Unlike the modulars that are hardware representations, every parameter can be modulated. Doesn't need inputs and outputs for everything. And where wires are needed, it often auto-wires.

The Bitwig Sampler Osc is also a Grid module. So it is easy to work with samples, including multi-samples, granular, wavetable. You can do some lovely audio-rate modulations!

The Grid can be set from 1 - 64 voices... has Voice Stacking up to 5 and is automatically working with MPE.

I was playing around with creating a generative never repeating patch and made this. No spaghetti jumble of wires. Dry, no FX

https://dandelionaudio.com/sound/grid-generative-01.mp3
Can you do set up odd numbered sequencers that repeat only when the containing pattern does, ie, polyrythms?
Old 1 week ago
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HSi View Post
Can you do set up odd numbered sequencers that repeat only when the containing pattern does, ie, polyrythms?
At the moment there is no Midi Grid device for outputting note data. Bitwig said that is coming later.

Inside the Grid you can set up whatever complex arrangement you want of sequencers triggering any of the included sound generators.

You can put multiple transport modules each controlling multiple sequencers and each running at an independent speed. A sequencer can be 2-64 steps. You can make a trigger that resets the whole thing or just resets individual sequencers every X amount of time.
Old 1 week ago
  #11
Here for the gear
This might seem a bit esoteric but:

Is there a module which returns what the active voice number is if a patch is polyphonic? Not the number of active voices but the active voice number.

So for example voice 1 of a 4-voice patch would have this module returning '1', voice 2 '2' etc

I use this function of the Nord G2 a lot to detune individual voices of polyphonic patches, as well as introducing other (usually quite subtle) per-voice variation which can really make a polyphonic patch sound much more involving and I hope there's something similar in the Grid!

Basically the "voice info" module from Reaktor

Last edited by line; 1 week ago at 04:07 PM..
Old 1 week ago
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by line View Post
This might seem a bit esoteric but:

Is there a module which returns what the active voice number is if a patch is polyphonic? Not the number of active voices but the active voice number.

So for example voice 1 of a 4-voice patch would have this module returning '1', voice 2 '2' etc

I use this function of the Nord G2 a lot to detune individual voices of polyphonic patches, as well as introducing other (usually quite subtle) per-voice variation which can really make a polyphonic patch sound much more involving and I hope there's something similar in the Grid!

Basically the "voice info" module from Reaktor
I don't see a module that does that specifically. There is a counter module. So it is easy to do stuff like every 4th note played can be modulated.

And of course it is easy to do as much per voice randomization as you wish.
Old 1 week ago
  #13
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by line View Post
This might seem a bit esoteric but:

Is there a module which returns what the active voice number is if a patch is polyphonic? Not the number of active voices but the active voice number.

So for example voice 1 of a 4-voice patch would have this module returning '1', voice 2 '2' etc

I use this function of the Nord G2 a lot to detune individual voices of polyphonic patches, as well as introducing other (usually quite subtle) per-voice variation which can really make a polyphonic patch sound much more involving and I hope there's something similar in the Grid!

Basically the "voice info" module from Reaktor
There isn't per se, but you can achieve the same thing with the Voice Stack modulator (it's a modulator, not a The Grid module). It has a modulation out per voice, so you can use it to detune per voice for example.
Old 1 week ago
  #14
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Beta 2 is just out and it is much more cpu efficient for polyphony. I can easily play twice as many voices as beta 1.

There is also a Curves module added. Very good for MPE expression fine control.
Old 1 week ago
  #15
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilmai View Post
There isn't per se, but you can achieve the same thing with the Voice Stack modulator (it's a modulator, not a The Grid module). It has a modulation out per voice, so you can use it to detune per voice for example.
Perfect! Thank you! Well that's taken me from 95% to 100% buying it now
Old 1 week ago
  #16
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I do not know if it is any good, but looks interesting...

Old 1 week ago
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pictus View Post
I do not know if it is any good, but looks interesting...
The Cherry Audio modular is good. However, that to me is a good demonstration of why I like Bitwig's Grid much more.

First, I don't see a value in having a software modular represented visually like eurorack hardware. It's visually confusing and adopts some of the limits of physical hardware which is ridiculous in a software environment.

I much prefer the layout and visual appearance of Bitwig's Grid. It makes no effort to look like hardware and because of that is much easier to see what is going on, organize it efficiently and edit.

In something like Voltage Modular or Reaktor Blocks, everything has to be wired just like hardware. With the hardware paradigm, any parameter to be modulated needs a mod input. Anything that doesn't have a mod input cannot be modulated.

In Bitwig's Grid it is using Bitwig's modulation concept. Add an LFO to the Grid and you can activate the mod arrow and then quickly modulate a dozen different parameters without any wiring. Any knob or other parameter can be modulated and it is not necessary to have inputs for everything. It is so much cleaner looking.

You can zoom in and out in the Grid. You can also set up any number of 8 parameter macro pages per preset so that the Grid can be closed and you can adjust the pertinent parameters for that preset from any 8 knob midi controller.

Select any module in the Grid and the inspector shows an oscilliscope of all input and output signals. Very handy to see what is going on. Select say an Env or LFO (any module with the mod arrow) and all mod targets are shown in the inspector and one can edit the target mod depth values and delete or add targets.

All signals in the Grid are stereo and any Grid construction can be monophonic or polyphonic. You can set voices from 1-64. You can also use voice stacking (unison) up to 5 voices and can independently edit the parameter values for each stacked voice separately. The Grid is also automatically MPE aware and just works without any special configuration needed.
Old 1 week ago
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by draig View Post
The Cherry Audio modular is good. However, that to me is a
good demonstration of why I like Bitwig's Grid much more.(...)
Strong points you got, thank you for the detailed description!
I am 100% convinced!!
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