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Long time Logic power users switched to Bitwig?
Old 19th June 2019
  #31
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draig's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apollo del Rio View Post
All sounds great... right up to the comping bit.

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"
Some implementation of comping will get added to Bitwig... but who knows when that will be.

I can live without the comping as I am not in a fast production environment and I don't have to keep any schedule other than my own interest.

In Bitwig, you can use the clip launcher to do multiple takes but there is no comping facility for quickly chopping the bits you want to keep. For now that is acceptable for me.

All the modulation capability in Bitwig is just not even possible in Logic. Now with the Grid in Bitwig, all sorts of complex sound design can be done and it can be polyphonic, or use voice stacking and is always MPE capable.

I think Bitwig is unique and powerful enough to be worth it even as a second DAW.
Old 20th June 2019
  #32
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by draig View Post
Some implementation of comping will get added to Bitwig... but who knows when that will be.

I can live without the comping as I am not in a fast production environment and I don't have to keep any schedule other than my own interest.

In Bitwig, you can use the clip launcher to do multiple takes but there is no comping facility for quickly chopping the bits you want to keep. For now that is acceptable for me.

All the modulation capability in Bitwig is just not even possible in Logic. Now with the Grid in Bitwig, all sorts of complex sound design can be done and it can be polyphonic, or use voice stacking and is always MPE capable.

I think Bitwig is unique and powerful enough to be worth it even as a second DAW.
Yeah to be honest, if one is on a budget - go Bitwig + Acoustica Mixcraft. It's insane how much functionality that program has for the top version which is less than $100 when they have sales! I got it just so I have a dead simple recording program to use, which it works great for, but it honestly could do all that a lot of people need.

I hope Bitwig doesn't even try to do the comping at this point. I haven't even used Bitwig in almost a year but it's already so different from Ableton Live, let alone a mainstream DAW, why even bother weighing down the development path when there's so many other great options for traditional workflows, you know?

I don't know if Bitwig works as a rewire slave like Live does, but it would be cool if it could (or as a big plugin, like Maschine, although I don't think it could with all the processing power and VST hosting it's got going on - Maschine does a lot too though and can still be hosted as a plugin).

Mixcraft even has a simple clip launcher! But it's very very basic (but good enough for the goal of recording quick ideas I suppose, which was supposed to be the big idea of the clips in the first place).
Old 20th June 2019
  #33
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draig's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockafella View Post
Yeah to be honest, if one is on a budget - go Bitwig + Acoustica Mixcraft. It's insane how much functionality that program has for the top version which is less than $100 when they have sales!
Bitwig and Logic would still be a better deal. There is no DAW that is a better value for the money than Logic.
Old 24th June 2019
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by draig View Post
Bitwig and Logic would still be a better deal. There is no DAW that is a better value for the money than Logic.
Agreed.
Old 24th June 2019
  #35
Gear Maniac
I disagree, considering that Apple charges a very high premium to get to usable disk space, with no option for recovery of media if the motherboard goes caput. For example, a Macbook Pro with the i9, an "ok" GPU, etc., would be almost $8,000 just to get 4 TB of space! Whereas for almost half of that, I have double the SSD space (8 TB), fully configurable/repairable, and my i9 actually gets to 1350 regularly on Cinebench scores without anything too extreme, just a mild undervolt and good paste, whereas the latest Macbook "Pro" barely hits 1,000, because they had to "fix" it by forcing the chip to NEVER go into turbo boost mode to keep temperatures down.

So you might think the $200 or $250 for Logic is a good deal, but overall, it's not. I will also never forgive Apple for a) dropping PC support with no cross grade option when they bought it from eMagic, b) again leaving Logic Pro 9 users like me out in the cold who spent $800+ for the software package only to insult us by cheapening the product and the price shortly thereafter, again, with no upgrade as a courtesy.

The last good Macbook Pro was when they offered the 17". That was a machine worthy of being called "Pro". I still have my 2015 model and that is the last one I ever bought. I gave up on it because you cannot connect USB 3.0 hubs, it crashes the USB controller and the keyboard is on that USB bus, so guess what, have to force restart via the power button. Had to go 2.0 all the way and stay below 7 ports per hub. Back in PC land, I can connect as many USB 3.0, 10-port and I am sure higher port count hubs as I could ever want. (I have 50 ports in total right now among all my connected hubs!)
Old 25th June 2019
  #36
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draig's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockafella View Post
I will also never forgive Apple
That says everything...
Old 25th June 2019
  #37
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by draig View Post
That says everything...
Thanks - I am guessing they annoyed you in some way also? (I honestly can't tell if you are empathizing or being a bit sarcastic?) I mean, I use iPhone and iPad, don't get me wrong. And probably if I wanted a desktop, I could make use of a mac mini, not sure about the iMac, I think those are basically locked up like Macbooks now. But for power computing in a laptop, nosireee. Macbook = JokeBook as far as I'm concerned. (Seriously, how do they get off charging one or two upgrade prices to get to i9, when the chip runs like the second from the top i7, due to the lack of turbo clocking? It LITERALLY is paying for the name, without any privilege of using the power of that chip.)

Obviously I let my previous gripes with Apple fall by the wayside as I bought three or four MacBook "Pros" since I wasted that $800 on Logic Pro 9.

We'll see how much of a deal you all feel it is when they decide to cut Logic Pro and turn it into GarageBand Plus or some such nonsense. (don't forget how they crippled Final Cut too, on a whim) I will only run dual or more platform DAWs from now on, that's for sure.
Old 25th June 2019
  #38
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draig's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockafella View Post
Thanks - I am guessing they annoyed you in some way also? (I honestly can't tell if you are empathizing or being a bit sarcastic?) I mean, I use iPhone and iPad, don't get me wrong. And probably if I wanted a desktop, I could make use of a mac mini, not sure about the iMac, I think those are basically locked up like Macbooks now. But for power computing in a laptop, nosireee. Macbook = JokeBook as far as I'm concerned. (Seriously, how do they get off charging one or two upgrade prices to get to i9, when the chip runs like the second from the top i7, due to the lack of turbo clocking? It LITERALLY is paying for the name, without any privilege of using the power of that chip.)

Obviously I let my previous gripes with Apple fall by the wayside as I bought three or four MacBook "Pros" since I wasted that $800 on Logic Pro 9.

We'll see how much of a deal you all feel it is when they decide to cut Logic Pro and turn it into GarageBand Plus or some such nonsense. (don't forget how they crippled Final Cut too, on a whim) I will only run dual or more platform DAWs from now on, that's for sure.
I was pointing out how personally you take it. They are simply a company, like any company, making stuff according to their own priorities. Generally they aim to satisfy the maximum number of users and they are pretty good at it and once in a while they f up.

Getting the maximum cpu cycles is not their priority. Most professional users don't need it. My current MBP is from 2016. I've accomplished an exceptional amount of work with it. Editing photos, building websites, audio production, video editing, publication layout, etc. I've worked many long days of production... sometimes 14 hours and it has never had the slightest problem. It has been basically invisible. I never even think about the computer... just what work I am doing.

It has been a useful tool that I am satisfied with. If your priority is getting the most possible cpu, then Macs aren't that. I've been using Mac laptops for almost 20 years and each one paid for itself many many times over. No doubt I could have used different laptops and had the same experience. My point is that they are one of a number of quality tools available. Use whatever works for you... but talking like the company has some vendetta against users is silly.

Apple is not going to cut Logic Pro...
Old 25th June 2019
  #39
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by draig View Post
I was pointing out how personally you take it. They are simply a company, like any company, making stuff according to their own priorities. Generally they aim to satisfy the maximum number of users and they are pretty good at it and once in a while they f up.

Getting the maximum cpu cycles is not their priority. Most professional users don't need it. My current MBP is from 2016. I've accomplished an exceptional amount of work with it. Editing photos, building websites, audio production, video editing, publication layout, etc. I've worked many long days of production... sometimes 14 hours and it has never had the slightest problem. It has been basically invisible. I never even think about the computer... just what work I am doing.

It has been a useful tool that I am satisfied with. If your priority is getting the most possible cpu, then Macs aren't that. I've been using Mac laptops for almost 20 years and each one paid for itself many many times over. No doubt I could have used different laptops and had the same experience. My point is that they are one of a number of quality tools available. Use whatever works for you... but talking like the company has some vendetta against users is silly.

Apple is not going to cut Logic Pro...
Phew, I was afraid I was facing the firing squad when I saw I had a response...

Hey I am right there with you. I was very, very pro Mac from 4 to 14 years ago! I think what annoyed me on the hardware side was, they prioritized thinness over everything (then battery life)... and in the ten years I only used Macs except for work environments, I had built up a lot of "trust" that they were getting 90% of what one could get out of any hardware. What really annoyed me (I even put up with the USB hub issue on my $3k 2015 MB Pro) was when they forced the super thin keyboard onto all the Pro laptops. I'd already had experience on the 12" MB (hey, I said I was a complete Mac fan!), and while it was reliable, it constantly had keys sticking and needing to drop the tiniest specs of dust out of it, not to mention it was almost the same lack of feel as typing on the iPad glass screen itself. So at that point, I knew I could never upgrade again to a new MP Pro with that keyboard. In the meantime, I picked up a relatively super cheap Lenovo on Black Friday and Win10 won me over, and I knew when I upgraded my audio computer, I was going to go back to PC for the interim.

Like you said, the Mac fits for a lot of people. It's those little things you just can't change. At least now they let you select a dark interface. But like how they got rid of the original Spaces feature and pretty much over-simplified it... or the fact you can never cut and paste a file... lots of little things I said "uggh" but lived with, I realized. And I was surprised when I compared my laptop (was really getting into tuning it for a month or so when I first got it) and saw it was basically 30% more CPU on tap just due to the fact it could stay cool at max clock speeds, and the MB Pro cannot.

But for mobile devices, I'm all for it - I really don't care how it works, I just want it to work simply and reliably. Used to have Android but I really couldn't imagine going back to an Android phone or tablet, way too many Android updates, resetting my sounds each time I remember, etc. The one thing Android had that was/is definitely superior was the dialer - so easy to just dial a few characters or numbers of someone's name or number or recent calls number and it would populate a list for you to pick from... Apple's is so bloody antiquated. If I was a salesperson taking lots of calls, I would use Android just for that feature actually.

Anyway, thank you for expanding on your usage and experience. I still have my 2005 17" MB Pro in the closet! The GPU gave out as many of those did (but still lasted me full-time until 2012 nonetheless!). And I loved the the tower I had back then too, with its cool air conditioner-like cooling system (don't know if you saw those in person but the insides were beautifully done, everything slid in and out very nicely, etc.). I heard there was a rumor they might go back to their own CPU, I don't know how they would pull that off when all PowerPC stuff had to transition to Intel or die off back then already. Would be interesting though!
Old 25th June 2019
  #40
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draig's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockafella View Post
Phew, I was afraid I was facing the firing squad when I saw I had a response...

Hey I am right there with you. I was very, very pro Mac from 4 to 14 years ago! I think what annoyed me on the hardware side was, they prioritized thinness over everything (then battery life)...
The whole thinness thing has not been my priority. For lots of people it seems to be.

cheers
Old 25th June 2019
  #41
Gear Maniac
 
shpongled's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockafella View Post
... or the fact you can never cut and paste a file...
i'm totally on the same page and agree with what you're saying overall, but you can actually cut and paste files, or at least achieve the same outcome.

you may already know this, but i've come across many long-time mac users who don't.

cmd + c followed by option + cmd + v will "copy" and then "move".

Old 25th June 2019
  #42
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by shpongled View Post
i'm totally on the same page and agree with what you're saying overall, but you can actually cut and paste files, or at least achieve the same outcome.

you may already know this, but i've come across many long-time mac users who don't.

cmd + c followed by option + cmd + v will "copy" and then "move".

That's been in MacOS for a while I presume? Hehe, I never found that when I searched pretty thoroughly about 8 years ago! I presumed it was because in Linux you have to supply the from and to with the move command, but I can see how this works around it from your explanation. Thanks for that! (I always figured there must be SOME way, too. Well, I can remove that from my list of hate points, lol.)
Old 4th September 2019
  #43
Gear Head
I´ve been using Logic for a while and I got a good hang going with it. So i´m not out to switch over completely, but there are certain features im interested in that bitwig seem to have. As with any program it´s a little clumsy at the beginning... So any pointers would be much appriciated. And is there a keyboard ala logics pop-up piano in bitwig?
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