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ERM Multiclock and Bitwig
Old 1st March 2019
  #1
Lives for gear
ERM Multiclock and Bitwig

Anyone using this combo? Here are my issues with Ableton and USAMO My layout is easy. Cirklon is my brain,gets sync from the USAMO. It controls my hardware synths and also some of my VSTis as well. When I hit play in the DAW, the Cirklon will play. Once I get a track written and arranged in the Cirklon, I print all the tracks to audio. Of course, sometimes I need to go in and overdub or add more sequences from the Cirklon.

I’d like to know if these issues occur with the Bitwig/ERM combo:

1. First bar is not always in sync or starts late

2. Bigger projects in Ableton make the USAMO stop sending a start signal constantly (this is killing me).

3. Any other issue you may experience (setup issues..etc)

4. Positive experiences and your setup are also encouraged.

Currently the USAMO and Ableton setup is just not 100% there and Os from Expert Sleepers blames Ableton for this (I believe him). But the USAMO is not exactly a perfect device either. It is great for the price, but very tough to dial in.
Old 1st March 2019
  #2
Gear Maniac
 

Unfortunately I don’t have a USAMO, but can you use it with the Bitwig demo? It’s not a bad idea to test your own exact setup even if other people haven’t had problems.
Old 1st March 2019
  #3
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draig's Avatar
 

So you are thinking of buying the ERM instead of the USAMO?

I'm curious how well the ERM and Bitwig work together too. I haven't bought it to try
Old 1st March 2019
  #4
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Analog View Post
Unfortunately I don’t have a USAMO, but can you use it with the Bitwig demo? It’s not a bad idea to test your own exact setup even if other people haven’t had problems.
Yes I can, but the issue there is that I will need to tweak the USAMO, and that is not an easy process. It currently is not getting the same signal out as it sends in Ableton so I need to inspect why.

Honestly, the USAMO is a PITA to setup. Additionally, some of the biggest issues I have with Ableton and the USAMO are when the projects are huge and involved, so that would mean that I would need to go through all of that process in a demo that I can’t save, so it’s unlikely to happen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by draig View Post
So you are thinking of buying the ERM instead of the USAMO?

I'm curious how well the ERM and Bitwig work together too. I haven't bought it to try
Yes I am. I have barely found any info on the integration on Bitwig and multi clocks. I know Ableton is well documented to not be great at it, and that is what I am experiencing.

Additionally, an unrelated question - in Bitwig when I go to the audio settings and it shows my device and the buffer size, to the right of it is a number of 1.2ms. Is that the latency? If so, wow. That’s 3 ms less than in Ableton. How do they pull that off?
Old 3rd March 2019
  #5
Lives for gear
Looks like I may have to bite bullet and invest in this myself. I emailed Bitwig support so once I hear back I may order the E-RM. The USAMO is good for what it is, but it’s just a huge PITA to get the right level of sound out of the interface to the plugin. Plus the issues I have with it and ableton basically make it pointless..
Old 4th March 2019
  #6
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draig's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Methlab View Post
Looks like I may have to bite bullet and invest in this myself. I emailed Bitwig support so once I hear back I may order the E-RM. The USAMO is good for what it is, but it’s just a huge PITA to get the right level of sound out of the interface to the plugin. Plus the issues I have with it and ableton basically make it pointless..
Please post their reply and if you purchase the ERM your experiences with it.
Old 5th March 2019
  #7
Lives for gear
Well I am halfway there. I bought Bitwig last night and am running the USAMO through it. One thing I can’t figure out is how to make the USAMO always send signal. It seems if I am not clicked on the audio channel with USAMO on it, it will not always start up. The channel also will not record, so I am not sure what the deal is there.

I compose in cirklon, so it’s not the end of the world, but I’d like to get it sorted. If it works out, I am not need the ERM.
Old 5th March 2019
  #8
Gear Nut
 
tadgreedy's Avatar
AFAIK Bitwig can accept clock from external hardware.

Why don't you use the Cirklon as the master, and ditch the need to use USAMO/ERM???
Old 5th March 2019
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tadgreedy View Post
AFAIK Bitwig can accept clock from external hardware.

Why don't you use the Cirklon as the master, and ditch the need to use USAMO/ERM???
Yes it can, but it's not optimal, I tried it months ago. There is a delay you have to get right, and it changes per project. Plus there is still jitter due to the PC midi. It's just not a great idea if you want everything as tight as possible.

The only way to do it is via sync box.
Old 5th March 2019
  #10
Gear Head
Hi Methlab

I‘m using Bitwig (latest version) and ERM Multiclock, Bitwig being the master running the ERM plugin with an audio trigger to the ERM Multiclock. Multiclock then sends out LFO to JX-3P, DIN Sync to Devilfish and various Midi clock signals to other outboard gear. That works just fine. untill...

Audio latency, plugin latency and delay latency compensation are somewhat the grousers in this chain. If you start with an empty project und sync up all your devices to your metronome, you‘re just fine. Once the project gets bigger and certain plugins come to the game, you have to manually adjust the ERM Multiclock to keep all your gear in sync. This means also, if you jump between projects (as I often do) you have to re-sync and balance everything again.

Yes you can tweak the knobs on the Multiclock which makes it easy, but bare in mind that not all gear attached to the Multiclock will react the same. So I have to forget about mathematics and the numbers you can read within your DAW (overall latency for instance) and go with the ears. (and the butt. if the butt shakes, you’re in sync)

And be warned that there are gremlins within this configuration, which might drive you mad. It can happen that I close a cool running session one night, and it will be completely out of sync the next day when I reopen it. Without ever knowing why exactly. Theoretically, the DAW is sending an audio signal as trigger, so it should not matter how much plugins or stuff I will throw at the project. The DAW will compensate for it. But that’s just theory. In practice, you might need to tweak the knobs on your Multicloclock to stay in sync. Which could be fun, but also kill the flow. I think ERM is on a good way and it might work in a lot of situations, but sometimes the setup is just too complex. And every setup is different..

Godspeed,
air
Old 5th March 2019
  #11
Gear Nut
 
tadgreedy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Methlab View Post
Yes it can, but it's not optimal, I tried it months ago. There is a delay you have to get right, and it changes per project. Plus there is still jitter due to the PC midi. It's just not a great idea if you want everything as tight as possible.

The only way to do it is via sync box.
That's a shame, it would have been a simple solution.

Seems this guy here has no problems with BW & ERM

Old 5th March 2019
  #12
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by airzwei View Post
Hi Methlab

I‘m using Bitwig (latest version) and ERM Multiclock, Bitwig being the master running the ERM plugin with an audio trigger to the ERM Multiclock. Multiclock then sends out LFO to JX-3P, DIN Sync to Devilfish and various Midi clock signals to other outboard gear. That works just fine. untill...

Audio latency, plugin latency and delay latency compensation are somewhat the grousers in this chain. If you start with an empty project und sync up all your devices to your metronome, you‘re just fine. Once the project gets bigger and certain plugins come to the game, you have to manually adjust the ERM Multiclock to keep all your gear in sync. This means also, if you jump between projects (as I often do) you have to re-sync and balance everything again.

Yes you can tweak the knobs on the Multiclock which makes it easy, but bare in mind that not all gear attached to the Multiclock will react the same. So I have to forget about mathematics and the numbers you can read within your DAW (overall latency for instance) and go with the ears. (and the butt. if the butt shakes, you’re in sync)

And be warned that there are gremlins within this configuration, which might drive you mad. It can happen that I close a cool running session one night, and it will be completely out of sync the next day when I reopen it. Without ever knowing why exactly. Theoretically, the DAW is sending an audio signal as trigger, so it should not matter how much plugins or stuff I will throw at the project. The DAW will compensate for it. But that’s just theory. In practice, you might need to tweak the knobs on your Multicloclock to stay in sync. Which could be fun, but also kill the flow. I think ERM is on a good way and it might work in a lot of situations, but sometimes the setup is just too complex. And every setup is different..

Godspeed,
air
Awesome feedback, thanks for chiming in! Sounds like the USAMO offers the same solution then, and the headaches wont go away with the E-RM.
In my case, I am using the Cirklon to get all the sync info and it controls my hardware synths and my VSTis. So it may be a little less hairy than your situation but the reality for any DAW seems to be that once the track count gets to a certain level, sync boxes seem to lose their effectiveness.
Old 5th March 2019
  #13
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by tadgreedy View Post
That's a shame, it would have been a simple solution.

Seems this guy here has no problems with BW & ERM

Yeah, I agree it would have been perfect.

I have USAMO working similar to his right now. The test comes when the projects get larger. His is really small. I will update once I do a full tune. I usually do 30-35 tracks, so nothing crazy, but once I hit in the 20s, the madness usually begins.
Old 9th March 2019
  #14
Lives for gear
The USAMO stopped working for me when I updated to 2.5.No idea what changed, but it is clear to me that the way to go is the ERM. Mainly since Bitwig has it's own integrated Midi clock plugin which should run a lot better than the USAMO's, which is not exactly updated that often. I am sick of babying the USAMO. Additionally with the USAMO, the channel it was on needed to be clicked on a lot or it would not always start, plus if I solo'd a track, the USAMO would not be able to bypass that and send signal anyway (you can do this in ableton by using an external hardware plugin, but ableton gets buggy as mentioned before). Soloing does not affect Bitwig's midi clock plugin, so that is another benefit.

Hopefully since I will use the Cirklon as my brain and not need by syncing anything else to the ERM like airzwei is doing I should be good.

It is worth mentioning to me that Bitwig let me know that if I encounter any crackling or popping in my project, it can impact the sync clock. Definitely worth noting.

Last edited by Methlab; 13th March 2019 at 04:44 AM..
Old 15th March 2019
  #15
Lives for gear
Quick update. I got the ERM and so far it works perfectly. You just need to know that in the bitwig HW Clock out plugin, turn on the gate, set the tick rate to 1/96 and turn reset off.

I am really loving this setup so far, and the ERM is FAR easier to set up than the USAMO, and I would say even tighter, based on what I am seeing.

I only use it when recording sequenced Cirklon parts into the DAW, but that's becoming 90% of my track, with the rest being live bass/guitars.

So for a large part of the time I just set Bitwig to the same BPM as my cirklon and control start and stop with it. I basically do everything in Cirklon and use Bitwig for Drums and VSTis (both controlled by Cirklon). Of course, I also modulate and do sound design in Bitwig as well. Once I get an arrangement done in Cirklon, I start printing to bitwig and that is where the ERM is a huge help for me.
Old 16th March 2019
  #16
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draig's Avatar
 

Good to know... thanks!
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