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Bitwig Studio 3
Old 26th January 2019
  #61
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What's Rewire?
Old 26th January 2019
  #62
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I suspect if Rewire supported Linux (which is becoming much more popular as a series dedicated DAW OS) they may look at it, but once you commit to supporting 3 O/Ss (which includes Linux) you cant add an API/Support for something that doesn't support one of those O/Ss. There are other, possible even better solutions (I like the way VCV rack handled it without Rewire)
Old 26th January 2019
  #63
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@ SLiC

Yes, something similar to VCV bridge would do the trick.
Old 26th January 2019
  #64
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The speed BW is developing I wouldn't put it past them, remember, we still have 'collaboration' to come now the open modular is out of the way which may go way beyond 'Rewire'

From BW site:

Collaboration features are planned for future versions of Bitwig Studio. Network support is already built into the core of the software and the Bitwig Studio project file format is designed bearing collaboration features in mind. So collaboration is part of the DNA of Bitwig Studio. We are dedicated to further develop our own collaboration technology.
Old 26th January 2019
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLiC View Post
I suspect if Rewire supported Linux (which is becoming much more popular as a series dedicated DAW OS) they may look at it, but once you commit to supporting 3 O/Ss (which includes Linux) you cant add an API/Support for something that doesn't support one of those O/Ss. There are other, possible even better solutions (I like the way VCV rack handled it without Rewire)
Jack is what Bitwig recommends and my impression from comments by the Devs is that they are not interested in doing something like that themselves... and in fact may not even consider it a problem that needs a solution.

Like I said that is my impression from comments... they did not say those things unequivocally. Well... they were pretty clear about no Rewire.

I think it would be a waste of developer resources to create such a tool and then of course you are on the hook for it working with every single other DAW on all 3 platforms. I really hope they don't do that.
Old 26th January 2019
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLiC View Post
The speed BW is developing I wouldn't put it past them, remember, we still have 'collaboration' to come now the open modular is out of the way which may go way beyond 'Rewire'

From BW site:

Collaboration features are planned for future versions of Bitwig Studio. Network support is already built into the core of the software and the Bitwig Studio project file format is designed bearing collaboration features in mind. So collaboration is part of the DNA of Bitwig Studio. We are dedicated to further develop our own collaboration technology.
I read that as Collaboration between Bitwig users... not a tool to integrate Bitwig into other DAW's
Old 26th January 2019
  #67
Gear Addict
Who knows at this stage, using the power of multiple PCs, linking users for live jamming over the internet...it has all been discussed and too me is all far more 'next gen' than Rewire...BWS has been big on syncing (and did introduce Live link as well as having BWS sync as a slave to hardware, midi clock etc!) so I wouldn't rule anything out, but I suspect they will do it 'there way'!

Check out Jack- I think it is a sort of cross-platform version of Rewire and BES Jack support incudes Jack Transport on all platforms, have a quick read of this: Connecting Bitwig Studio to Other Audio Applications : Ask.Audio
Old 26th January 2019
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLiC View Post
I suspect if Rewire supported Linux (which is becoming much more popular as a series dedicated DAW OS) they may look at it, but once you commit to supporting 3 O/Ss (which includes Linux) you cant add an API/Support for something that doesn't support one of those O/Ss. There are other, possible even better solutions (I like the way VCV rack handled it without Rewire)
It isn't specifically about Re-wire as far as I am concerned. It is about integrating Bitwig into my current setup and workflow. I'd be more than happy if the whole of Bitwig could be loaded as a VST plugin or any other solution that gives the necessary functionality.

I'll look at which options are available once the V3 demo is out.

Alistair
Old 27th January 2019
  #69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted 46dc28f View Post
What's Rewire?
ReWire (software protocol - Wikipedia)
this answer is from 2016:
Bitwig | Answers

I don't use Propellerhead Reason, so I'm more interested in how a new controller such as the AKAI Force could be implemented (just like the Ableton Push) over Ableton link.

Yes, Jack works fine (runs on an old Linux laptop) but on the main computer I'm using Soundflower virtual audio busses.
Download Soundflower for Mac - free - latest version
Old 27th January 2019
  #70
Gear Addict
Bitwig has 'Ableton Link' but perhaps more interestingly it has MMC and MIDI Clock Slave capability which I find more useful with hardware as I can use BWS almost like a hardware sampler/looper with my Electron RYTM (for example) having full control of not just tempo but full transport control and Bigwig just follows the hardware...
Video shows what I am talking about.

YouTube

Last edited by SLiC; 27th January 2019 at 01:20 PM.. Reason: added video
Old 27th January 2019
  #71
@ SLiC Yes, this works very well!

For mac users, this is also an interesting piece of donateware (as alternative to Jack) called "Loopback" (virtual busses but with a graphic interface) Rogue Amoeba | Loopback: Cable-Free Audio Routing
Old 27th January 2019
  #72
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Old 29th January 2019
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reptil View Post
@ SLiC Yes, this works very well!

For mac users, this is also an interesting piece of donateware (as alternative to Jack) called "Loopback" (virtual busses but with a graphic interface) Rogue Amoeba | Loopback: Cable-Free Audio Routing
The problem is a lot of potential users don’t want to fiddle around with these third party options. Most people just want to pull up a plugin, or something similar, and get working in their main DAW.

The Jack audio solution that Bitwig recommends goes against their “fast easy and fun” philosophy.

With the addition of the Grid, Bitwig is as much synth and sound design tool as it is a DAW for composing. Think of all the people that have to work in Pro Tools, or need to deliver formats other than stereo. Offer them a solution that allows quick and painless Bitwig integration and they will come.

A cross platform inhouse solution is the way to go.
Old 29th January 2019
  #74
@ Broken isn't that Ableton LINK? That works fine, across platforms and computers. It's also not difficult to set up.
I think the isssue is with Jack and Soundflower, that it's not a mod to the daw but a bit of extra code for the OS.
Soundflower is really easy to set up and use. Ever tried it? You'll just have a bunch of extra virtual busses you can route audio to and from.
Old 29th January 2019
  #75
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In one of the NAMM videos about Bitwig 3, Dave mentioned that there are a few features in Bitwig 3 not yet mentioned because they want to focus on the Grid.

So looks like there are a few small surprises awaiting users
Old 29th January 2019
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reptil View Post
@ Broken isn't that Ableton LINK? That works fine, across platforms and computers. It's also not difficult to set up.
Unfortunately no. Ableton LINK looks like a good solution for syncing apps on different computers, but it doesn't do what's required for a user trying to easily integrate Bitwig into their main DAW.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reptil View Post
I think the isssue is with Jack and Soundflower, that it's not a mod to the daw but a bit of extra code for the OS.
Soundflower is really easy to set up and use. Ever tried it? You'll just have a bunch of extra virtual busses you can route audio to and from.

I used Soundflower a long time ago and remember thinking it was OK. But it’s Mac only and the solution needs to be cross platform. I’m starting to think something similar to VCV Bridge might be the best option.
Old 30th January 2019
  #77
Gear Addict
Ironically the VCV Bridge solution will probably be somewhat obsolete when V1 comes out as you will be able to use VCV as a plug in (sort of what you were asking for!)
I remember for years thinking Reason Rack should be a VST rather than in a DAW...

So, Bitwig could make a send/receive VST (so you just load the receive plug in Cubase) as a more elegant and cross-platform re-wire, but I am not sure if there is enough demand for this considering Bitwig is a small team, as I said, there are a ton of feature request posts on KVR and I have never seen anyone ask for this (although I can see the point of it and I also use a second DAW for more typical live recording and mixing)

As I also have Bitwith on a MS Surface I have had great success just slaving it to MCC and putting the output of my Bitwig PC in to my Mixer and recording it 'live' as if it was hardware in to Studio One. Benefit of 2 DAWS on two separate screens and not sharing CPU, but I realise this is not an in 1 box solution.

I think if this is ever going to happen or be considered it will be in the 'network collaboration' phase (although I agree this is more about utilising CPU from different computers and sharing or even working live on collaboration projects over the net....this may just be Bitwig-Bitwig but conceivably it could be with other DAW users!
Old 30th January 2019
  #78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Broken View Post
I used Soundflower a long time ago and remember thinking it was OK. But it’s Mac only and the solution needs to be cross platform.
that would be nice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SLiC View Post
So, Bitwig could make a send/receive VST (so you just load the receive plug in Cubase) as a more elegant and cross-platform re-wire,
Gotcha
One of the reasons I still prefer Logic 9 for mixing duties.

Right now I bounce the tracks from Bitwig, then load these into a new template into logic, it's a bit of extra work but not really a bother.
Once I get the new laptop I hope to sync Bitwig from hardware, then sync Logic from there via Ableton LINK. We'll see.
Old 30th January 2019
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLiC View Post
So, Bitwig could make a send/receive VST (so you just load the receive plug in Cubase) as a more elegant and cross-platform re-wire, but I am not sure if there is enough demand for this considering Bitwig is a small team, as I said, there are a ton of feature request posts on KVR and I have never seen anyone ask for this (although I can see the point of it and I also use a second DAW for more typical live recording and mixing)
Not that I think it is a bad idea in theory... but I so hope Bitwig does not do that. The moment they do, then they are on the hook.

What I see is endless complaints from users because it doesn't work quite right with their DAW and there are a lot of them. There is Reaper and Reason and Cubase and Logic (gotta make an AU then) and Pro Tools and Tracktion/Waveform and FL Studio and Digital Performer and Samplitude and Sonar and on and on...

Then a new version of some DAW comes out and breaks the plugin somehow (kills PDC or whatever). Look at all the time u-he spends keeping their plugins up to date.

I think it would be a total development time-suck and significantly cut back the speed of Bitwig development. In other words... a disaster.
Old 30th January 2019
  #80
Gear Addict
As I said, I am not sure if there is enough demand for this (but I have seen a few posts regretting rewire not being available) and Bitwig really need to direct their limited development time to what people are really asking for (better piano roll editing, comping and ARA integration...OK, the last one was mine )

I think the open modular network and 'network collaboration' were promised as future update to V2, so they will obviously be directing a lot of time to these issues in addition to general improvements. Now we have the open modular environment, once they have added the network side they have fulfilled their initial commitments and have a free licence as far as I am concerned!

This from the BW site; 'collaboration is part of the DNA of Bitwig Studio. We are dedicated to further develop our own collaboration technology.' Once Grid is released, I suspect this will be the next major addition....if you think about it, if you are going to collaborate with other BW users on line, there has to be a way of sharing whatever is made in the grid 'first'!


I know Bitwig removed this for now Bitwig network sync and online collaboration - Album on Imgur

(as they had to stop overpromising too much too soon!) but I am pretty confident that can do it, and probably have it already in some form on their development side!

Last edited by SLiC; 30th January 2019 at 06:58 PM.. Reason: typo and aded link
Old 30th January 2019
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLiC View Post

I think the open modular network and 'network collaboration' were promised as future update to V2, so they will obviously be directing a lot of time to these issues in addition to general improvements. Now we have the open modular environment, once they have added the network side they have fulfilled their initial commitments and have a free licence as far as I am concerned!
Which DAW's have network sync and realtime online collaboration?
Old 30th January 2019
  #82
Old 30th January 2019
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLiC View Post
VST Connect Pro | Steinberg
Is that only for Cubase?
Old 30th January 2019
  #84
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So it looks like audio feedback loops are going to be possible in the Grid... very cool. I'm looking forward to playing with v3!!
Old 30th January 2019
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by draig View Post
Is that only for Cubase?
That is Cubase's version of what Bitwig are also proposing they will do....no reason why forward thinking developers couldn't make them talk to each other- maybe Cubase VST Connect Pro could become a protocol like VSTs did, no point Bigwig re-inventing the wheel...

Other DAWS may have similar, I haven't researched it (I am not particularly interested in the collaboration aspect, but I do like the idea of sharing CPU load over multiple PCs, this has been done before over LAN but never really took off; using one PC just as a 'host' for a heavy CPU VST and midi/audio being transferred in pseudo real time)

Waves have a similar thing with 'Mesh' I think.

Anyway- all speculation, its all about the 'grid' right now!
Old 3rd February 2019
  #86
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Old 3rd February 2019
  #87
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Old 7th February 2019
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLiC View Post
That is Cubase's version of what Bitwig are also proposing they will do....no reason why forward thinking developers couldn't make them talk to each other- maybe Cubase VST Connect Pro could become a protocol like VSTs did, no point Bigwig re-inventing the wheel...
I think Bitwig is talking about full-blown project collaboration, like Google Docs but for a Bitwig project. That’s already a very complex problem to solve. Trying to solve it for an infinite number of project formats doesn’t exactly make it easier.

VST Connect Pro and DAW-agnostic solutions like Splice are solving a much simpler problem. They only deal with audio streaming and file sync. Those “wheels” don’t fit the problem of project-level collaboration so Bitwig does actually have to invent a new one.
Old 7th February 2019
  #89
Gear Addict
Yes, that was certainly the initial assertion (or vision) and they are still saying it is built in to the DNA of Bitwig (probably used for developement collaboration). I guess the question is (in terms of directing developement resource) how important is it to most people? Personally, if it’s networking on a local level to use the CPU of multiple computers (like fxteleport) then I would find that quite useful, if it is colabetating live on a project with another in a different country, then not so much. Either way, there are a lot of basic workflow enhancements on midi and audio editing I would like to see first (comping, adding ARA support, more piano roll editing tools etc) and most polls on what Bitwig should do next seem to back this up.
Old 10th February 2019
  #90
Gear Nut
Yeah I tend to agree. Collaboration seems like such a small use-case. I could be wrong but at a guess there would be only a really small number of users who would actually use it. On the other hand a way to use 2-3 computers in a studio as a kind of super-daw power up would be brilliant, most of us have a main computer and a laptop so yeah, instant power up. Seems like such an obvious idea, maybe it already exists?
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