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Scragend 12th May 2020 12:07 AM

That’s all very well and good and you know you’ll get a usable track because you use the same tools every other engineer used in the same situation – I thought music was supposed to be art? Imagine we forced all painters to use the same brush and the same type and colour of paint when painting a flower because we KNOW they work for flower painting - how daft does that sound? So much engineering knowledge is no more than hand-me-down-by-rote folk law. Go on, try discovering one thing new per week – crack that mic cabinet open and grab the “wrong” mic! Use a different compressor - a different pre-amp. Sure, if you’ve got paying customers you can’t mess the tracking up so you've got to play it safe. If you’re doing it for yourself or from your own time – chuck the rule book out the window!

The first thing I do with any new bit of gear is plug all the wrong things into it to see how it sounds - the last two tracks I mixed I used an acoustic guitar pedal/processor to sterioize mono backing tracks. Did it sound as good as a H3000? Nope, but it didn't sound like yet another cookie-cutter backing track with a H3000 either - bonus! When I record tamborines I often use two completely different mics in a stereo pair - the tonal change adds movement - who cares if it sounds slightly odd? The human ear likes touches of odd. If we're all gonna engineer by number then we may as well program robots to do it.

bgulian 12th May 2020 03:31 AM

I used to own two of these mics. Makes me wonder if someday, the rest of these mics will be ones I used to own.

Bushman 12th May 2020 04:41 AM

Of all the mics listed and brought up, the one I am most curious to hear in my studio is the Warm 47. What does that gigantic hunk of metal actually sound like? I have no particular need or expectation, but a whole lot of itch that wants scratching.

bill5 13th May 2020 05:02 AM

You should've just left off the Shure and called this "best of the really expensive LDCs." Which is not feasible for many of us. Where's that "best of the budget LDCs" :)

DistortingJack 13th May 2020 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bill5 (Post 14730424)
You should've just left off the Shure and called this "best of the really expensive LDCs." Which is not feasible for many of us. Where's that "best of the budget LDCs" :)

There's literally a thread for that:

Ten of the Best Microphones under $300 for Recording Vocals

It's just that you've only got $300 for a mic I doubt you'll be recording a Bösendorfer in a treated church with it so the assumption is that it will be for vocals mainly.

bill5 14th May 2020 12:38 AM

Thanks but that thread is already 4+ yrs old, guess I was hoping for a new one, that one needs to go away IMO :)

DistortingJack 14th May 2020 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bill5 (Post 14732586)
Thanks but that thread is already 4+ yrs old, guess I was hoping for a new one, that one needs to go away IMO :)

What a weird argument. What groundbreaking mics have been released in the last 4 years? Mics are not smartphones, the best ones are arguably decades old.

Just get a black NT1 or a Warbler and be done with it. 99% chance your room is the thing that makes your recordings crap if you're spending $300 on a main mic anyway.

Bushman 14th May 2020 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DistortingJack (Post 14734739)
Just get a black NT1 or a Warbler and be done with it. 99% chance your room is the thing that makes your recordings crap if you're spending $300 on a main mic anyway.

Truth.

It also suggests another truth. Spent wisely, $300 toward room treatment would make whatever mic you have now sound like a different and better mic.

bill5 14th May 2020 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DistortingJack (Post 14734739)
What a weird argument. What groundbreaking mics have been released in the last 4 years? Mics are not smartphones, the best ones are arguably decades old.

My point wasn't to add new "groundbreaking" mics per se, but that a 4+ yr old list could probably use another look and consideration of other mics.


Quote:

Originally Posted by DistortingJack (Post 14730995)
It's just that you've only got $300 for a mic I doubt you'll be recording a Bösendorfer in a treated church with it so the assumption is that it will be for vocals mainly.

What a weird argument. So only expensive mics are acceptable for instruments? You better tell all those people (pros included) using them that they're doing it wrong.

DistortingJack 14th May 2020 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bill5 (Post 14735154)
My point wasn't to add new "groundbreaking" mics per se, but that a 4+ yr old list could probably use another look and consideration of other mics.

If there are no new groundbreaking mics then why does it need another look? What else has changed that would warrant it? Also those are usually just the beginning of the conversation, everyone knows the knowledge is in the comments.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bill5 (Post 14735154)
What a weird argument. So only expensive mics are acceptable for instruments? You better tell all those people (pros included) using them that they're doing it wrong.

No, the argument is that pros who can afford a $20–50k piano and a room with acoustics good enough to record it to a professional level will not be limiting their budget to $300 for a mic. They might end up with a cheap mic (let's be honest, they won't for a Bösendorfer), but limiting the cost won't be a consideration, just the technical specs and the sound they're going for.

In contrast, the main limiting factor in that thread is obviously the price, considering it's literally in the title. There's no shame in that at all, just don't delude yourself.

Using my own sentence construction belies the fact that you're butthurt and being petty. Instead of doing that, how about if you do have some great brand new cheap mics that are not on that thread, feel free to share them—ideally in the other thread, where it belongs.

DistortingJack 15th May 2020 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bushman (Post 14734816)
Truth.

It also suggests another truth. Spent wisely, $300 toward room treatment would make whatever mic you have now sound like a different and better mic.

I completely agree. I would rather use a $200 sE mic in a great-sounding, dead room than the C-800G in a ****ty-sounding bedroom.

Now that so many people are recording videos at home, it should be blindingly obvious to people that those famous musicians with fancy mics recording in their lovely-looking yet untreated rooms sound like arse. And all of those Zoom calls everywhere with omni smartphone mics on speakerphone, by God! My ears bleed, and it's the awfulroom sound more than the mics or even the crappy bitrate compression most of the time.

gearstudent 17th May 2020 01:10 AM

I don't see how the Shure makes it to this list. Since the Brauner VM-1 is not on this list, the list is implying that the Shure is better than the Brauner. I don't see how you get there... from anywhere.

DistortingJack 17th May 2020 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gearstudent (Post 14739831)
I don't see how the Shure makes it to this list. Since the Brauner VM-1 is not on this list, the list is implying that the Shure is better than the Brauner. I don't see how you get there... from anywhere.

If we were talking about the "best" microphones ever, you talk about either accuracy and versatility, or about "good sound".

If you're talking about musical accuracy, then we're talking SDCs. Neumann KM series, Schoeps MK series, DPA 4000 series, Sennheiser MK and MKH, and maybe at a stretch the Earthworks and the Line Audio ones. Nothing else really comes close.

If we're talking about the tastiest-sounding models and the standard for every other studio mic, we're really only talking about the U67 and original C12. Every other mic right now is striving to be one of those.

This list is trying to span a more extensive range in terms of price range and flavours, and the KSM32 is a widely-used, desirable flavour that's quite cheap. The Brauner is too, but in a top 10 you have to make choices I guess. Shure is a more culturally important brand than Brauner. I would have swapped the Brauner for the Chandler or Soundelux instead. The Warm Audio is great for the low-end section so that's good to stay.

Eric Stravinsky 17th May 2020 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DistortingJack (Post 14740641)
This list is trying to span a more extensive range in terms of price range and flavours, and the KSM32 is a widely-used, desirable flavour that's quite cheap. The Brauner is too, but in a top 10 you have to make choices I guess. Shure is a more culturally important brand than Brauner. I would have swapped the Brauner for the Chandler or Soundelux instead. The Warm Audio is great for the low-end section so that's good to stay.

KSM32 is the closest thing to heaven.

Bushman 17th May 2020 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Stravinsky (Post 14740816)
KSM32 is the closest thing to heaven.

I’m always curious what mic the Pope is using, but I prefer to rank mics on an agnostic scale.

DistortingJack 17th May 2020 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bushman (Post 14740877)
I’m always curious what mic the Pope is using, but I prefer to rank mics on an agnostic scale.



Every time I've seen him it's a gooseneck mic, I guess Audio Technica or Sennheiser?

Eric Stravinsky 17th May 2020 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bushman (Post 14740877)
I’m always curious what mic the Pope is using, but I prefer to rank mics on an agnostic scale.

Lol. I was talking about this:


Bushman 17th May 2020 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DistortingJack (Post 14740910)


Every time I've seen him it's a gooseneck mic, I guess Audio Technica or Sennheiser?

That’s not the mic I was thinking of. Did they change mics when they changed Popes?

DistortingJack 17th May 2020 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Stravinsky (Post 14741135)
Lol. I was talking about this:


Very unholy. Very shouty. Very rule the world-y.

paulocau 21st May 2020 08:25 AM

[QUOTE=bill5;14735154]My point wasn't to add new "groundbreaking" mics per se, but that a 4+ yr old list could probably use another look and consideration of other mics.


Hey buddy,
4 years is like 2 minutes to many of us here.
Just wait, in 25 years think back to this... You too will go, "oh! 4 years?! What the hell was I thinking?!"
Yours in time and space, (and sound)

PC

CDW 22nd August 2020 01:24 AM

Since it was brought up, most of Tears for Fears best songs were recorded with a Neumann TLM 170. A little random trivia for those interested.

Progger 22nd August 2020 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDW (Post 14927896)
Since it was brought up, most of Tears for Fears best songs were recorded with a Neumann TLM 170. A little random trivia for those interested.

I am absolutely interested in that! "Songs From the Big Chair" is one of my favorite albums. TLM 170s and 193s are relatively affordable for Neumanns, very cool if the 170 is responsible for the wonderful-sounding vocals on that record.

CDW 22nd August 2020 02:22 AM

You’ll enjoy this then!

https://www.mixonline.com/recording/...e-world-365857

Progger 22nd August 2020 06:00 AM

I do indeed, thank you!

Eric Stravinsky 22nd August 2020 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Progger (Post 14927964)
I am absolutely interested in that! "Songs From the Big Chair" is one of my favorite albums. TLM 170s and 193s are relatively affordable for Neumanns, very cool if the 170 is responsible for the wonderful-sounding vocals on that record.

It is one of mine too. The Working Hour is my favorite non-single song off the album.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDW (Post 14927972)

Thanks for the article.

CDW 22nd August 2020 05:47 PM

I think in honor of this TFT discussion we should nominate the Neumann TLM 170 | TLM 170R as a Top LDC microphone. I have one, and it's one of the best microphones Neumann has ever made. It's fantastic and one of my favorite go-to mics. There is a very popular and reputable GS member who absolutely panned that microphone years ago as a piece of garbage (his words weren't that kind actually) and I swear it affected the reputation and sales of that microphone. In this case he couldn't have been more wrong.

elegentdrum 23rd August 2020 09:46 AM

Guess I'm lucky to have purchased used mic's 5 years ago before they dried up.

Soundelux U95S, Grove tubes MD3, Sony C55P pair, Purple badge 170, U87A (not ai), a bunch of rare moving coils.

MichaelDroste 25th August 2020 05:15 PM

How are people liking the Warm Audio WA-47?

chrisdee 27th August 2020 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelDroste (Post 14933400)
How are people liking the Warm Audio WA-47?

I've tried/demoed it. It was ok but didn't wow me in any way. A bit boring to my ears. I like my AR51 much much better. After the Adreas Grosser mod it sounds more pleasing, fuller, clearer and has much more bottom end compared to any of my other mics.

I have to say I'm a bit skeptical to Warm Audio after getting a nasy and harsh distortion (in the 1k to 5k area) coming from both the WA-2A and WA76 when pushed with dynamic/loud vocals. So I finally sold them after months of trying to make them work for me.

I didn't try to push the WA 47 but I didn't have to since I wasn't impressed enough to keep on demoing it.

To Warm Audios benefit I think both the WA-2A and WA76 sounded nice when singing softley, but I need gear that can handle both soft and loud vocals.
Warm didn't do it for me.

Bushman 28th August 2020 06:53 PM

I like both the Warm Audio WA-47 (not the jr.) and the WA-84. They compare favorably with similar-format mics priced two to four times their cost, comparing new to new.
Of course that is my opinion. There isn’t a factual answer to mic preference.
As to build quality and quality control, for which Warm sometimes gets negative comments, mine are without any cosmetic or functional flaws, and my pair of 84s match for level and frequency response as well as any mic pair I’ve owned or used.