Gearslutz

Gearslutz (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/)
-   Best Studio Gear (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/best-studio-gear/)
-   -   Ten of the Best Studio Monitors from $1,000 to $2,000 (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/best-studio-gear/1104259-ten-best-studio-monitors-1-000-2-000-a.html)

adl 6th March 2019 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blayz2002 (Post 13849807)
Cool, hope you enjoy them. I was previously very interested to try them out, due to all the great feedback, but couldn't find anywhere to demo them.

A tip, if you're not already aware, if you do struggle a lot with bass levels (kick & bass), you should have a think about using Sonarworks (even if you have room treatment). It's been a great help for me in getting my mixes to translate better with less back and forth and revisions.

Also for a great visual cue that your mix could be unbalanced is Voxengo SPAN. If you watch this video YouTube and set it up as this guy says, it gives great visual feedback for what a balanced mix should look like and if you have missing frequency content or something poking out. Of course, you stilll use your ears, but I find it to be very accurate.

I already use Sonarworks and it really helped a lot with my room and also my headphone. It´s a great software! kfhkh

I also watched a nice setup video for voxengo Span which is an amazing (and free!) tool.

I think if you are reading here at gearslutz and and keep your eyes / ears open you can get amazing infos in how to get better in producing music. :chug:

blayz2002 6th March 2019 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adl (Post 13849859)
I already use Sonarworks and it really helped a lot with my room and also my headphone. It´s a great software! kfhkh

I also watched a nice setup video for voxengo Span which is an amazing (and free!) tool.

I think if you are reading here at gearslutz and and keep your eyes / ears open you can get amazing infos in how to get better in producing music. :chug:

Cool you should be all set to then, once you burn in the Klassics. Maybe it was the lack of tightness in the low ends on the A7X’s that was throwing you.

Best of luck. kfhkh

adl 6th March 2019 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blayz2002 (Post 13850075)
Cool you should be all set to then, once you burn in the Klassics. Maybe it was the lack of tightness in the low ends on the A7X’s that was throwing you.

Best of luck. kfhkh

Remind you: i got the old A7´s without the "X". They had really little bass, that´s why i added the Adam Sub8.

Burn in is really working by the way, it´s no myth. The Klasik´s are already sounding much more pleasant, not so hard / dry "in your face" anymore.
This is after 6 hours pink noise and 4 hours frequency sweeping using those 2 videos:

10 hours pink noise:
YouTube

8 hours frequency sweeping:
YouTube

Martel80 7th March 2019 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adl (Post 13850106)
Remind you: i got the old A7´s without the "X". They had really little bass, that´s why i added the Adam Sub8.

Burn in is really working by the way, it´s no myth. The Klasik´s are already sounding much more pleasant, not so hard / dry "in your face" anymore.
This is after 6 hours pink noise and 4 hours frequency sweeping using those 2 videos:

10 hours pink noise:
YouTube

8 hours frequency sweeping:
YouTube

If you compose music, they'll become your best friend forever.

Once you're done with the 20-30 hours of getting use to them, you'll have a different opinion about the mid highs, thats for sure.

By the way, Welcome in the family.

I love mine and actually thinking of going to the AEON because of where and how I'm setup right now. But thats another story.

If you're setup a bit like me with equilateral triangal at about 4 feet (1.20m) you'll want to have a loook at your mix deeper in your room at about 8ft ( 2.50m ) once in a while.
You'll then understand the full extent of the low frequencies.

adl 7th March 2019 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martel80 (Post 13850389)
If you compose music, they'll become your best friend forever.

Once you're done with the 20-30 hours of getting use to them, you'll have a different opinion about the mid highs, thats for sure.

By the way, Welcome in the family.

I love mine and actually thinking of going to the AEON because of where and how I'm setup right now. But thats another story.

If you're setup a bit like me with equilateral triangal at about 4 feet (1.20m) you'll want to have a loook at your mix deeper in your room at about 8ft ( 2.50m ) once in a while.
You'll then understand the full extent of the low frequencies.

I actually was thinking about getting the Aeon, but my room is about 17 square meters, which isn't very big. The distance between me and the klasik is about 50cm and there is no way to get any further, so I am working really "near field" with my speakers. That's why I decided to go with the Klasik.
I still am curious how an 8" speaker like the Aeon would work in my room, especially as I got the 8" Sub, which wouldn't be needed then for sure.

EDIT:
After some more research I discovered something weird: The old Aeon have a frequency range of 30Hz-30kHz. The new Aeon 2 have a frequency range of 38Hz-33kHz. Why would they make the new version with less bass?! The klasik go down to 35Hz, so even lower than the Aeon 2. So it actually would be a step down (bass wise) going from Klasik to Aeon 2. confoosed

Martel80 7th March 2019 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adl (Post 13850683)
I actually was thinking about getting the Aeon, but my room is about 17 square meters, which isn't very big. The distance between me and the klasik is about 50cm and there is no way to get any further, so I am working really "near field" with my speakers. That's why I decided to go with the Klasik.
I still am curious how an 8" speaker like the Aeon would work in my room, especially as I got the 8" Sub, which wouldn't be needed then for sure.

EDIT:
After some more research I discovered something weird: The old Aeon have a frequency range of 30Hz-30kHz. The new Aeon 2 have a frequency range of 38Hz-33kHz. Why would they make the new version with less bass?! The klasik go down to 35Hz, so even lower than the Aeon 2. So it actually would be a step down (bass wise) going from Klasik to Aeon 2. confoosed

Not exactly. First off, the AEON is front ported. If you ever worked in small spaces, a front port can save you a whole lot of headache when it comes to midlows and low end response.

Like I said earlier, take some time to place your Monitors correctly. 50cm is WAY too close. Get some stands for your monitors or build yourself some with simple plywood and 2x4 and get them further appart in an equilateral triangle.

Now if you want to understand the full extent of what I'm suggesting, you should put a sine wave at 60hz and listen to it from your 50cm position then go further down your room at about 2.7 m from the monitors and then youll really hear your 60hz. I think you'd be placed at half way a 60hz wave at 9 feet so thats 2.7m.

I read that you use sonarwork software. So it will be a very useful thing for you to use it if you placed your Klasik against the wall. Even though the bass response is fantastic on Klasik, you'll end up with a HUGE build up and that wont help you referencing unless you need those bass frequencies overloaded so you dont mix in a muddy way. But that would be like driving your car with a feet always on the break because you know you'll be breaking one day or another. Very bad practice. In the end, just do the best you can with the ressources you have now but I would highly suggest you do all you can to improve your situation by placing your monitors at least a bit more decently.
And dont overlook room treatment. This will help you a lot more then you can think.

adl 7th March 2019 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martel80 (Post 13851037)
Not exactly. First off, the AEON is front ported. If you ever worked in small spaces, a front port can save you a whole lot of headache when it comes to midlows and low end response.

Like I said earlier, take some time to place your Monitors correctly. 50cm is WAY too close. Get some stands for your monitors or build yourself some with simple plywood and 2x4 and get them further appart in an equilateral triangle.

Now if you want to understand the full extent of what I'm suggesting, you should put a sine wave at 60hz and listen to it from your 50cm position then go further down your room at about 2.7 m from the monitors and then youll really hear your 60hz. I think you'd be placed at half way a 60hz wave at 9 feet so thats 2.7m.

I read that you use sonarwork software. So it will be a very useful thing for you to use it if you placed your Klasik against the wall. Even though the bass response is fantastic on Klasik, you'll end up with a HUGE build up and that wont help you referencing unless you need those bass frequencies overloaded so you dont mix in a muddy way. But that would be like driving your car with a feet always on the break because you know you'll be breaking one day or another. Very bad practice. In the end, just do the best you can with the ressources you have now but I would highly suggest you do all you can to improve your situation by placing your monitors at least a bit more decently.
And dont overlook room treatment. This will help you a lot more then you can think.

Thanks for the feedback and suggestions.
I actually got room treatment but i don´t have a dedicated studio. It´s the living room which i have to share with wife, kid and 2 dogs, so i am limited in what i can do and how i place things. I am happy already that i got personal (studio) side in that room :lol:
I think i miscalculated the distance i sit to the APS Klasik a bit it´s more around 1 meter with also 1 meter distance between the two speaker (so it´s a equilateral triangle at least).
Will do a sonarworks measurement tomorrow, really keen on how the curve will look like. Previously i had two 9dB peaks (at 40Hz and at 103Hz). Sonwarworks really helped in getting a propper bass mix (mixing Kick and Bass)

adl 17th March 2019 05:42 PM

Just as a follow up regarding the APS Klasik: they are going back. Here is why:
First of all: they got an amazing lowend. Really loving that and the depth also was noticeable better than on my Adam A7 (the old one, not the A7x mind you!).
Still i was in doubt if there might be something better / even more fitting (HEDD Type 07 was something i considered for example) so i went to thomann (yes, i am privileged to live only 30 minutes away from them) and was listening to several monitors in comparison (HEDD Type 07, Adam A7x, Yamaha HS8 and some more, just switching between em, going back and forth). I noticed, that there where also the Neumann KH120 A, which i had heard only good about (also listed in this thread) but never considered em for me, as they have a small 5,25" woofer, instead of my regular 7" woofer on the Adam A7 and the APS Klasik. Still i thought, "just give em a listen, when everybody is raving about em" and OH MY GOD!! :cowbell: They sound so open, spacious, clear, neutral, with very precise transient response. I also thought they where running with a Subwoofer, as there wasn´t a real break in the bass department, when switching from the bigger 7" monitors to the KH120A´s. Long Story short: I left thomann with a pair of Neumann KH120A´s. diddlydoo

Back home i set em up and compared to the APS Klasik the missing bass was pretty noticeable i must admit. hidz So i hooked on my Adam Sub8 and did some proper measurement regarding leveling the Sub to the KH120A´s. I also found a little better spot for my Subwoofer, as in the Neumann manual mentioned the Sub should not be placed exactly between the monitors but rather a bit left or right. Listening to music now is such a joy (when it´s mixed proper)! They have such a clean and "airy" sound with such a wide stereo field.

In all honesty, i didn´t even do a lot going back and forth between the APS and the Neumann´s, it was so clear that this setup will be "the next step" for me. I am not bashing the APS Klasik in any way btw! They are very nice and offer an amazing linear frequency response, even down to the subs. I only have the problem that in my room (where not that much treatment is possible, as it´s the living room i have to share with my wife, kid, dogs gruudge :lol: ) In this room are several bass dips between the left and right monitor between 50-110Hz. When using a Subwoofer those differences aren´t there (as i only use ONE Subwoofer). I use Sonarworks which helps a lot. So i couldnt´t really take advantage of the nice lowend on the Klasiks as i had to use the Adam Sub8 anyway. With the Neumann´s this setup makes much more sense, as the Subwoofer takes a good amount of pressure off of them and they sound even more clearer.
I hope this is helpful to anybody and you get what i am saying, no native english speaker, but i try my best. :)

gedna 17th March 2019 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adl (Post 13870320)
Just as a follow up regarding the APS Klasik: they are going back. Here is why:
First of all: they got an amazing lowend. Really loving that and the depth also was noticeable better than on my Adam A7 (the old one, not the A7x mind you!).
Still i was in doubt if there might be something better / even more fitting (HEDD Type 07 was something i considered for example) so i went to thomann (yes, i am privileged to live only 30 minutes away from them) and was listening to several monitors in comparison (HEDD Type 07, Adam A7x, Yamaha HS8 and some more, just switching between em, going back and forth). I noticed, that there where also the Neumann KH120 A, which i had heard only good about (also listed in this thread) but never considered em for me, as they have a small 5,25" woofer, instead of my regular 7" woofer on the Adam A7 and the APS Klasik. Still i thought, "just give em a listen, when everybody is raving about em" and OH MY GOD!! :cowbell: They sound so open, spacious, clear, neutral, with very precise transient response. I also thought they where running with a Subwoofer, as there wasn´t a real break in the bass department, when switching from the bigger 7" monitors to the KH120A´s. Long Story short: I left thomann with a pair of Neumann KH120A´s. diddlydoo

Back home i set em up and compared to the APS Klasik the missing bass was pretty noticeable i must admit. hidz So i hooked on my Adam Sub8 and did some proper measurement regarding leveling the Sub to the KH120A´s. I also found a little better spot for my Subwoofer, as in the Neumann manual mentioned the Sub should not be placed exactly between the monitors but rather a bit left or right. Listening to music now is such a joy (when it´s mixed proper)! They have such a clean and "airy" sound with such a wide stereo field.

In all honesty, i didn´t even do a lot going back and forth between the APS and the Neumann´s, it was so clear that this setup will be "the next step" for me. I am not bashing the APS Klasik in any way btw! They are very nice and offer an amazing linear frequency response, even down to the subs. I only have the problem that in my room (where not that much treatment is possible, as it´s the living room i have to share with my wife, kid, dogs gruudge :lol: ) In this room are several bass dips between the left and right monitor between 50-110Hz. When using a Subwoofer those differences aren´t there (as i only use ONE Subwoofer). I use Sonarworks which helps a lot. So i couldnt´t really take advantage of the nice lowend on the Klasiks as i had to use the Adam Sub8 anyway. With the Neumann´s this setup makes much more sense, as the Subwoofer takes a good amount of pressure off of them and they sound even more clearer.
I hope this is helpful to anybody and you get what i am saying, no native english speaker, but i try my best. :)

Hello ADL thank you for your story, im too in to consideration to buy Aps Klasik monitors, i have small room, but i will try to do my best to treat it, i was thinking about Shape 65 and Hedd 07 eve 207, but Klasik is just way cheaper for me where i live, can you tell me more about it comparing to those models? i see you like Neumanns, great, i dont have sub, and making electronish kinda music :)) so low end is important...

does Klasik makes the best sense price to performance ratio?

adl 17th March 2019 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gedna (Post 13870550)
Hello ADL thank you for your story, im too in to consideration to buy Aps Klasik monitors, i have small room, but i will try to do my best to treat it, i was thinking about Shape 65 and Hedd 07 eve 207, but Klasik is just way cheaper for me where i live, can you tell me more about it comparing to those models? i see you like Neumanns, great, i dont have sub, and making electronish kinda music :)) so low end is important...

does Klasik makes the best sense price to performance ratio?

Hey mate, unfortunately i can only tell you about the HEDD Type 07, as neither the Shape 65 nor the Eve 207 where in that room (even though they sell it).
I found the HEDD TYpe 07 to be big in the Bass departement, which is what i also ready previously about them. So they should be fun producing, i am not sure about real critical mixing on them. The thing is: every monitor i heard sounded somewhat "muffled" compared to the Neumanns. Closest where the Adams A7x but the Neumann´s sound more spacious, wider, clearer, they just reveled more details (maybe the bass didn´t overpower the mids/highs due to the smaller 5" woofer, compared to the 7" woofers on the other monitors?).

One thing you should consider is: how close do you have the monitors standing to the wall? The Klasiks have a rear bass output port, which can be a problem if there isn´t much space between the bass output port and the wall. That´s why i first was considering the HEDD Type 07, as they got the bass output to the front (facing you, not the wall). I have to put em pretty close to the wall and that was a problem for me with the Klasik as well). The Neumann´s have the bass port to the front and thus can even be mounted directly on the wall (which i haven´t).

gedna 17th March 2019 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adl (Post 13870598)
Hey mate, unfortunately i can only tell you about the HEDD Type 07, as neither the Shape 65 nor the Eve 207 where in that room (even though they sell it).
I found the HEDD TYpe 07 to be big in the Bass departement, which is what i also ready previously about them. So they should be fun producing, i am not sure about real critical mixing on them. The thing is: every monitor i heard sounded somewhat "muffled" compared to the Neumanns. Closest where the Adams A7x but the Neumann´s sound more spacious, wider, clearer, they just reveled more details (maybe the bass didn´t overpower the mids/highs due to the smaller 5" woofer, compared to the 7" woofers on the other monitors?).

One thing you should consider is: how close do you have the monitors standing to the wall? The Klasiks have a rear bass output port, which can be a problem if there isn´t much space between the bass output port and the wall. That´s why i first was considering the HEDD Type 07, as they got the bass output to the front (facing you, not the wall). I have to put em pretty close to the wall and that was a problem for me with the Klasik as well). The Neumann´s have the bass port to the front and thus can even be mounted directly on the wall (which i haven´t).

Thank you for the answer, im planning to place Klasik's on stands about 1 to 1.5 meters from the wall, so i think rear port should not make any problems. or i hope so :)

adl 17th March 2019 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gedna (Post 13870619)
Thank you for the answer, im planning to place Klasik's on stands about 1 to 1.5 meters from the wall, so i think rear port should not make any problems. or i hope so :)

1 to 1,5 meters sound definitely good!
I got em about 30cm away from the wall, so that that was a problem.
The APS Klasik are superb speakers, i think they are better than the HEDD TYpe 07 at least (can´t speak for the Eve or the Shape 65).

For the Klasiks: give em time to burn in. They really sounded "hard" when i first played stuff on em, but after some hours of this stuff they really opened up and sounded great:

Pink Noise in 4K:
YouTube

100-200Hz Frequency Sweep:
YouTube

Just let that play during the night or some hours during the day when you are away. I did that during the first 3 days besides playing regular music (and of course producing rockout ) and it made a huge difference!

gedna 17th March 2019 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adl (Post 13870635)
1 to 1,5 meters sound definitely good!
I got em about 30cm away from the wall, so that that was a problem.
The APS Klasik are superb speakers, i think they are better than the HEDD TYpe 07 at least (can´t speak for the Eve or the Shape 65).

For the Klasiks: give em time to burn in. They really sounded "hard" when i first played stuff on em, but after some hours of this stuff they really opened up and sounded great:

Pink Noise in 4K:
YouTube

100-200Hz Frequency Sweep:
YouTube

Just let that play during the night or some hours during the day when you are away. I did that during the first 3 days besides playing regular music (and of course producing rockout ) and it made a huge difference!

Great :) thank you again for your helpful and quick response.

Martel80 20th March 2019 01:50 PM

I think at that point it really depend what you want to monitor in order of preferences. I'm in no way a good mixing engineer but I like to have certain frequencies very well represented and some other maybe less ''obvious'' without saying that I want them tamed.

I can definitely understand why someone would love the Neumann over the APS and I think the Dynaudio and Eve also fall under the same spectrum of representation. I'd put the Dynaudio a bit better on the Low mid spectrum as far as I remember but to me, they are all great monitors.

I love my APS as is because they dont give me any hear fatigue and how they translate over other system based on my mixing preferences.

Like I said, I'm a very bad Mixing Engineer so its not like I'm a great reference but this is just my personal taste. I'm actually thinking of selling my Klasik to go for the Aeon so if anyone is interested, we can have a chat about it and see if we can agree on a price. Just know that those dont devaluate much so dont come at me with low baller offer. I have no patience for that.

gedna 20th March 2019 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martel80 (Post 13876566)
I think at that point it really depend what you want to monitor in order of preferences. I'm in no way a good mixing engineer but I like to have certain frequencies very well represented and some other maybe less ''obvious'' without saying that I want them tamed.

I can definitely understand why someone would love the Neumann over the APS and I think the Dynaudio and Eve also fall under the same spectrum of representation. I'd put the Dynaudio a bit better on the Low mid spectrum as far as I remember but to me, they are all great monitors.

I love my APS as is because they dont give me any hear fatigue and how they translate over other system based on my mixing preferences.

Like I said, I'm a very bad Mixing Engineer so its not like I'm a great reference but this is just my personal taste. I'm actually thinking of selling my Klasik to go for the Aeon so if anyone is interested, we can have a chat about it and see if we can agree on a price. Just know that those dont devaluate much so dont come at me with low baller offer. I have no patience for that.

Hello Martel80, can i ask, why you thinking about selling Klasik? whats the reasoning? you need more Spl?

Martel80 20th March 2019 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gedna (Post 13876723)
Hello Martel80, can i ask, why you thinking about selling Klasik? whats the reasoning? you need more Spl?

No, simply that I'm also close to a back wall and would like to benefit of the front ported model. A bit more expensive but it would be an upgrade considering my situation.

PavlinaA 18th November 2019 01:03 PM

Dynaudio BM6A is pretty good

Bignoniodes 4th January 2020 03:25 AM

Hi
I'm new to this site, so apologies if I'm asking this question in the wrong section.
I have been out of the music game for quite a while and I'm looking for some advice on monitors, I used to work with ATC's years ago (best speakers I've ever used), I am thinking about getting a pair of ATC scm12 monitors, but before I make a decision can anyone recommend any other monitor that would be comparable in sound to ATC that would be worth considering, my budget (top end) is £1,500.
Thanks in advance. kfhkh

Martel80 4th January 2020 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bignoniodes (Post 14423783)
Hi
I'm new to this site, so apologies if I'm asking this question in the wrong section.
I have been out of the music game for quite a while and I'm looking for some advice on monitors, I used to work with ATC's years ago (best speakers I've ever used), I am thinking about getting a pair of ATC scm12 monitors, but before I make a decision can anyone recommend any other monitor that would be comparable in sound to ATC that would be worth considering, my budget (top end) is £1,500.
Thanks in advance. kfhkh

Amphion, PMC , Geithain are all worth a shot imo.

Mantik 6th January 2020 10:17 AM

Had the APS Klasik the exchange my Dynaudio Bm5a (mk1).

APS are very revealing and detailed, they remind me of my Focal Spirit Headphones, where you can easily hear every distortion or noise. But after a while I find ears get tired to listen to them faster. While on the Dynaudio I can work for hours without the need of a break.

The dynaudio also sound far more musical and inspiring, while revealing less details in the mid-high area, they make me work better. So after one year of using the Klasiks, the good old Bm5a again sit on my main-desk.

I use one Klasik Monitor for Mono-Checks, suprisingly. Everything mixed on the Dyns sound also good on them. But not the other way around!

Since bass is a little bit problematic on the dynaudio, they dont get low enough for techno music. I have got a Eve Audio Subwoofer TS 107, best decision ever made. The sub is incredible.

Bignoniodes 10th January 2020 02:38 PM

Deleted.

Raymond888 27th May 2020 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bignoniodes (Post 14423783)
Hi
I'm new to this site, so apologies if I'm asking this question in the wrong section.
I have been out of the music game for quite a while and I'm looking for some advice on monitors, I used to work with ATC's years ago (best speakers I've ever used), I am thinking about getting a pair of ATC scm12 monitors, but before I make a decision can anyone recommend any other monitor that would be comparable in sound to ATC that would be worth considering, my budget (top end) is £1,500.
Thanks in advance. kfhkh

I'm not familiar with the ATCs but I'm using the Neumann KH120 Actives and like them a lot. They also do a larger monitor speaker than that but I chose the smaller of the two because my studio is small.