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Article claims bass traps unnecessary in small room... Studio Monitors
Old 12th March 2012
  #1
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Thread Starter
Article claims bass traps unnecessary in small room...

I read this paper on Steven Klein's website titled "Time to Rethink Bass Traps"
Here is a quote I found interesting:
"Monitoring with 5” or 6” woofers in a 20’ room with 12’ ceilings, it is a waste of money to buy bass traps. The speakers simply do not have the energy to excite problematic modal behavior."
My room is 21'x20' and although it has an 8' ceiling, that ceiling will be soft. The hard ceiling is actually the hipped roof which is 8' above the ceiling which would average out closer to 12' than 8'. Anyway I have a hard time believing his statement because I can play a tone and walk around my room and hear the modal peaks and nulls, and I can see it on the graphs.

Am I misunderstanding? He doesn't seem like a kook.
Old 12th March 2012
  #2
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EricF's Avatar
 

Based on what I've experienced in the tiny spaces I've mixed in, I have a hard time believing Mr. Klein's statement.
Old 12th March 2012
  #3
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Ethan Winer's Avatar
 

Lightbulb

All I can say is the writer doesn't understand small room acoustics very well. The attached graph shows the response typical of a room that size. Note the peaks and nulls that extend up to 300 Hz. Does he think speakers with small woofers don't play below 300 Hz?

--Ethan

The Acoustic Treatment Experts
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Old 12th March 2012
  #4
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People claim things, they do it all the time. I don't know about Mr. Klein or what he was talking about, but how does the information you gather from him help you solve your problem?
Somebody who was arrested by the FBI a few decades ago said that if something is true, you can apply it and get predictable results.

Marconi claimed he invented radio. But Tesla did that.
Old 12th March 2012
  #5
Gear Nut
 

Thread Starter
Sorry, I forgot to add the link (I added it to original post).

He seems to be well respected in CA, but what he says goes against prevailing knowledge, shall we say. Which is why I asked if anyone was familiar with him and his work or his ideas. Doesn't mean I accept his premise, I'm just asking the question.
Old 12th March 2012
  #6
Not true, in my case at least. I have 6" woofers on my monitors in a smaller room than the author discusses, and when I play a test tone, the bass level in the corner of the room is unreal.

Bass traps make a HUGE difference in my humble room.
Old 12th March 2012
  #7
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avare's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandersd View Post
I read this paper on Steven Klein's website titled "Time to Rethink Bass Traps"
Here is a quote I found interesting:
"Monitoring with 5” or 6” woofers in a 20’ room with 12’ ceilings, it is a waste of money to buy bass traps. The speakers simply do not have the energy to excite problematic modal behavior."
My room is 21'x20' and although it has an 8' ceiling, that ceiling will be soft. The hard ceiling is actually the hipped roof which is 8' above the ceiling which would average out closer to 12' than 8'. Anyway I have a hard time believing his statement because I can play a tone and walk around my room and hear the modal peaks and nulls, and I can see it on the graphs.

Am I misunderstanding? He doesn't seem like a kook.
A 12' minimum dimension has a fundamental of 47 Hz, and 2nd harmonic of 94 Hz. The Mackie HR624 (6" driver) has published ow end down to 45 Hz. Note that Mackie has a reputation for publishing accurate data. Yamaha NS10Ms show a response down to 80 Hz, well below the second harmonic. The Yamada data is from Newell, Recording Studio Design .

How many years ago did Steve write that text? There have been great improvements in small speakers during the last decade.

Andre
Old 12th March 2012
  #8
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i think if i had a room with 12' ceilings i'd probably move to a 12" LF driver in my monitors anyways to a point, a room like he describes does have a lot of air volume, and the absorption needed for controlling the T60 response may be enough to create a balanced frequency response in that space with the smaller/lower powered speakers.
Old 12th March 2012
  #9
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frans's Avatar
About quoting Steven Klein: basic information theory says that as long as you aren't omniscient, there will be missing and wrong information in your dataset.
So I leave room for Mr. Klein knowing things I don't know - but the question is NOT if he is right or wrong or if our theories or methods to measure things are, but DOES THAT KNOWLEDGE GET RESULTS.. for you? Being right or wrong has no inherent use in the real world - NONE. RESULTS make a difference. So how do we connect the data in our systems and in Mr. Kleins system to make things work?

In a science as questionable as modern physics there's a vast gap between available empirical data and working theories, or even worse, plain axioms. This results in some theories working only in selected cases. But in most cases, small rooms sound abysmal, especially in the lower octaves and even small speakers can excite resonances - thats the whole shtick of resonances, to behave nonlinear.
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