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QRD: Is my room too small ?
Old 4th February 2012
  #1
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Thread Starter
QRD: Is my room too small ?

Hi, First Post!

Can someone help me. Is my control room too small for diffusion. Am I better off with broadband and bass traps ?

Dimensions:

4.5 m (14.8 ft) long
3.5 m (11.5 ft) wide
2.6 m (8.5 ft) high

many thanks

pace
Old 5th February 2012
  #3
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boggy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by pacealmondo View Post
Hi, First Post!

Can someone help me. Is my control room too small for diffusion. Am I better off with broadband and bass traps ?

Dimensions:

4.5 m (14.8 ft) long
3.5 m (11.5 ft) wide
2.6 m (8.5 ft) high

many thanks

pace
No, your room is not too small for diffusion. Use minimum listener distance from diffuser, as four wavelength of minimum working frequency. It is not needed in small rooms like yours to go too low in minimum working frequency of diffusion, roughly, 1000Hz for lowest working frequency of diffusers is good choice for most of small rooms.

EDIT: but you still need to dampen all room modes below 200Hz no matter if you use diffusers or not.
Old 5th February 2012
  #4
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Old 5th February 2012
  #5
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Jens Eklund's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomoreflakes View Post
Is LEDE possible / best in such a small room?
Possible but it might not end up "perfect", but neither will any other design concept in that room volume.

ISD gap for my room help pls!

The decision on acoustic model is a matter of personal preference.
Old 5th February 2012
  #6
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boggy's Avatar
Old 5th February 2012
  #7
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Jens Eklund's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by boggy View Post
Room is too small for LEDE.
Too small for a perfect LEDE-room, yes. Too small for an LEDE-style room; no.
Old 5th February 2012
  #8
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boggy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jens Eklund View Post
....... Too small for an LEDE-style room; no.
DIY people almost always presume that back part of the LEDE type of the room need to be with (literally) stiff and rigid boundaries and there aren't any absprption in most cases (as far as I see from my experience). This approach is pretty simplified. At the end they will build a room with wild bass response below 200Hz and flutter echo from the back at listnening place, because back wall, and back parts of side walls/ceiling didn't have anything apsorptive, so all the "benefits" from Initial Time Delay Gap will be masked, with inarticulate bass response and flutter echo, at least.
Because room is very small, all primary and secondary axial room modes both are in 20-100Hz range, from any dimension of the room, so he will have a problems to dampen it, especially if he need to have back surfaces reflecitve above ~200Hz. (this mean six very strong axial modes below 100Hz and above 20Hz, needed to dampen)

This isn't a easy task even for professional.

This is a reason why I suggest to nomoreflakes a MyRoom Design because this design methodology introduce air transparent diffusion and all reflection energy which is loosed because open slots in diffusers we replace with side and ceiling diffusion, so even room was totally dead, after we dampened all the room modes in the best possible way, with this type of diffusers we bring back life into room again, so room become more friendly and natural for user, with excellent potential for mix translation.

At least, even makers of LEDE design never intended this principle to rooms which are that small, people try to implement it but without much success.
This is a reason why I designed something easier to implement in the small rooms, with better results. All diffuse early reflections are phenomenal and surprising experience for listener, btw. heh
Old 5th February 2012
  #9
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Jens Eklund's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by boggy View Post
DIY people almost always presume that back part of the LEDE type of the room need to be with (literally) stiff and rigid boundaries and there aren't any absprption in most cases (as far as I see from my experience). This approach is pretty simplified. At the end they will build a room with wild bass response below 200Hz and flutter echo from the back at listnening place, because back wall, and back parts of side walls/ceiling didn't have anything apsorptive, so all the "benefits" from Initial Time Delay Gap will be masked, with inarticulate bass response and flutter echo, at least.
Because room is very small, all primary and secondary axial room modes both are in 20-100Hz range, from any dimension of the room, so he will have a problems to dampen it, especially if he need to have back surfaces reflecitve above ~200Hz. (this mean six very strong axial modes below 100Hz and above 20Hz, needed to dampen)

This isn't a easy task even for professional.

This is a reason why I suggest to nomoreflakes a MyRoom Design because this design methodology introduce air transparent diffusion and all reflection energy which is loosed because open slots in diffusers we replace with side and ceiling diffusion, so even room was totally dead, after we dampened all the room modes in the best possible way, with this type of diffusers we bring back life into room again, so room become more friendly and natural for user, with excellent potential for mix translation.

At least, even makers of LEDE design never intended this principle to rooms which are that small, people try to implement it but without much success.
This is a reason why I designed something easier to implement in the small rooms, with better results. All diffuse early reflections are phenomenal and surprising experience for listener, btw. heh
Boggy,

I understand that you wish to promote your design idea, but please refrain to do so by claiming others to be completely incompatible with smaller rooms. One can create good LEDE style designs in small rooms as long as one takes care of the modal region (but this goes for any design concept) and if space is limited, presumably by using pressure based absorbers (possibly in conjunction with diffusers on the back wall). Just because some people makes errors implementing a acoustic design, does not mean that the concept is flawed.
Old 6th February 2012
  #10
Gear maniac
 

Thread Starter
thanks for all the input, really appreciated
Old 12th February 2012
  #11
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boggy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jens Eklund View Post
Boggy,

I understand that you wish to promote your design idea, but please refrain to do so by claiming others to be completely incompatible with smaller rooms. One can create good LEDE style designs in small rooms as long as one takes care of the modal region (but this goes for any design concept) and if space is limited, presumably by using pressure based absorbers (possibly in conjunction with diffusers on the back wall). Just because some people makes errors implementing a acoustic design, does not mean that the concept is flawed.
When ITDG is smaller than about 12ms, or if back "wall" is closer than about 2m , LEDE won't works well as concept... at least from my experience, but YMMV...
Old 12th February 2012
  #12
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Jens Eklund's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by boggy View Post
When ITDG is smaller than about 12ms, or if back "wall" is closer than about 2m , LEDE won't works well as concept... at least from my experience, but YMMV...
ISD gap for my room help pls!




EDIT:
Quote:
Originally Posted by pacealmondo View Post
Hi, First Post!

Can someone help me. Is my control room too small for diffusion. Am I better off with broadband and bass traps ?

Dimensions:

4.5 m (14.8 ft) long
3.5 m (11.5 ft) wide
2.6 m (8.5 ft) high
Old 12th February 2012
  #13
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John White's Avatar
 

Jens,
If don't want to repeat yourself, please copy the passage you wish to represent the current topic. The terse links have been tiresome for quite some time now. As always, your input of content is extremely appreciated, though as I say to my two year old niece, "Use your words."
Old 12th February 2012
  #14
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Jens Eklund's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by John White View Post
Jens,
If don't want to repeat yourself, please copy the passage you wish to represent the current topic. The terse links have been tiresome for quite some time now. As always, your input of content is extremely appreciated, though as I say to my two year old niece, "Use your words."
Are you saying I should quote the first 20 or so post here or are you saying that I should take the time to write a resume of these posts? I think neither option is better than just posting a link to the relative thread.
Old 12th February 2012
  #15
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John White's Avatar
 

I'm not sure. It's just I often see miscommunication from (presumably) too much information that may not be part of what it is you wish to address. Perhaps state in brief the content, then the link. I think it would help the discussion flow verse saying, "Didn't you read the thread?". Well, which part of twelve pages?
Old 12th February 2012
  #16
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Jens Eklund's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by John White View Post
I'm not sure. It's just I often see miscommunication from (presumably) too much information that may not be part of what it is you wish to address. Perhaps state in brief the content, then the link. I think it would help the discussion flow verse saying, "Didn't you read the thread?". Well, which part of twelve pages?
I understand what you are trying to say but at the same time; the thread linked to starts on topic (ISD-gap, LEDE in a small room of similar size) and the first 20 or so posts are relevant. I don’t se how this could be misinterpreted.
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