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Are 2 panels and 2 traps better than nothing? Studio Monitors
Old 17th September 2011
  #1
Gear Addict
 
Inceptic's Avatar
 

Are 2 panels and 2 traps better than nothing?

I've been thinking about adding acoustic treatment to my newly arranged room, which measures: 15'10'' L x 12'5'' W x 8'10'' H

and looks like this:




Since I don't have much money, and OC703 fiberglass is sold in groups of 6, it seems that the smallest and cheapest "kit" I can get via DIY is two 2'' panels and two 4'' bass traps. (Two panels for early reflections on the side, and two corner traps to the left and right of the window.) So my questions are:

1. Would I be able to hear a difference? If not, what's the minimum to start hearing a difference?

2. Is there a better configuration when going with the bare minimum of treatment?

Thanks!
Old 17th September 2011
  #2
Here for the gear
 

I bought a 6 pack of rockboard 60 & don't hear a difference when stacking two 2 inch panels together.I think your better off just making 6 panels & spreading them around room.
Old 17th September 2011
  #3
Gear Nut
 

Anything is better than nothing. Where do you live? Rockwool is much cheaper than OC703, but requires a bit more support in framing. Roxul 80 (rockwool) is available in 4" panels in Denver from SPI for $1.50 per square foot. The DIY build that I used involves low weight/cost drywall corner bead to support the panels and allow cloth wrapping to look 'clean'.

Trap your front corners on each side of your monitors and put absorber panels at the first reflection points between your listening position and monitors (including ceiling). Then test your room. :D
Old 17th September 2011
  #4
Gear Addict
 
Inceptic's Avatar
 

Yeah, I live in Central America. Insulation suppliers here only offer kraft-faced fluffy fiberglass like this:

Johns Manville 90003720 R19 6.5 X 23 X 39''2 Kraft Faced Roll Insulation - Sq Ft/ Each 75.07

They sell that for like $60 here.

So I'm trying to decide whether it would be worth it to import proper acoustic material from the US, cause it's heavy, and shipping costs would be almost $100 just for a six-pack.

It really kinda defeats the purpose of DIY. :(
Old 17th September 2011
  #5
Gear Nut
 

Ouch! That really puts stuff out of reach. What does the OC703 go for there? Is there availability at all of Roxul? It would seem there must be a better way to get product from a supplier that stocks the product or can at least minimize shipping costs.
Old 17th September 2011
  #6
Gear Head
 

Check out Ethan winer's experiment on more vs less (and faced vs unfaced) panels... You might find it interesting:
http://www.ethanwiner.com/density.html
Old 19th September 2011
  #7
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Inceptic's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmys69 View Post
Ouch! That really puts stuff out of reach. What does the OC703 go for there? Is there availability at all of Roxul? It would seem there must be a better way to get product from a supplier that stocks the product or can at least minimize shipping costs.
Yeah. I haven't seen either of those here. I need to call them again and see if they do special orders. Maybe they can get it cheaper since they are always importing material.

Quote:
Originally Posted by soundoff View Post
Check out Ethan winer's experiment on more vs less (and faced vs unfaced) panels... You might find it interesting:
Rigid fiberglass density tests
Thank you for the link! All the permutations are very clear.
Basically, it's best to cover more surface area. And it seems that if you really want to affect the low freqs, you need at least 36'' of combined thickness spread around.

Some starter room packages seem to have a combined thickness of almost 30'' too.

So yeah, given my circumstances, I think it's best to put this off for awhile and save up.
Old 20th September 2011
  #8
Gear Guru
 
Glenn Kuras's Avatar
Quote:
I can get via DIY is two 2'' panels and two 4'' bass traps.
I don't think it will change your world, but you do have to start some where. Just plan on adding a lot more over time. To start though I would put the bass traps straddling the front corners (behind the monitors) and the 2 2" panels in the early reflection area.
What Are Early Reflection Points. Acoustic Panels and Bass Traps.
Old 20th September 2011
  #9
Gear Head
my 2 cents...

i live in a rent house, so i can't install any material. my control room is very small...
after some hours in this great forum i decide to build some rockwool panels and avoid ready-to-use foam.

so i built 3 60x60x10 cm panels to put in front wall. Now i can hear a DRAMATIC improvement of bass control and definition. Now i'm mixing better than before.


Better than nothing!!

:D
Old 22nd September 2011
  #10
Lives for gear
 
EricF's Avatar
 

The change from no treatment to the panels you're planning might not be huge, but if you place them well, I expect it will be noticeable immediately. At a minimum, it's a start in the right direction.

ANY improvement is still an improvement.
Old 29th September 2011
  #11
Gear Addict
 
Inceptic's Avatar
 

Thanks guys for the replies; I'm starting to get motivated again!

I've been wondering recently: would the bare minimum change if you have a subwoofer in the room? Or larger monitors?

I just have 2 HS50m's and they are ported (ports on the back), and the specs say they go down to 55Hz.

Looking at Ethan's experiments again, it seems that the stuff that is really nasty to tame is below 56Hz. So maybe this wouldn't be a bad start after all...
Old 17th October 2011
  #12
Gear Maniac
 

Inceptic --

What Jimmy and Glenn have suggested is your best bet - as a starting point. Hopefully you can add on.

YES, If you add a subwoofer, or use 8" speakers with greater bass -- you will want more trapping.
Old 17th October 2011
  #13
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmys69 View Post
Roxul 80 (rockwool) is available in 4" panels... The DIY build that I used involves low weight/cost drywall corner bead ....
:D
Jimmy -

Love to hear how the Rockboard 80 worked out for you.
- Did it crumble, or maintain integrity?
- Was it easily cutable, like fiberglass?
- Is it preferable to Roxul 40 (RXL Rockboard, 4 lb density)?
- Any particular reason why you chose 8 lb vs. 6 lb or 4 lb?

Thanks, Craig
(I'm looking at a similar project for this week)
Old 18th October 2011
  #14
Gear Nut
 

As far as I know, the more dense, the better. That why I used the 80. No crumble at all. Cuts quite easily with a long knife and straight edge.

I based my build on this. Don't use the batting though. Makes them look poofy.

My next round of traps are going to have a 1x2" pine back frame.
Old 2nd November 2011
  #15
Gear Maniac
 

Hey Jimmy.

I got a combination of Roxul 40 and 80 panels. The 40 (4lb) for corner packing. And the 80 (8lb) for panels enclosing my corners and for traps. They both work GREAT!

Actually -- better results with LOWER density material for packing corners without airgaps. Better resulst with HIGHER when building traps and leaving an equal airgap behind.

I'm curious: Why plan on putting a "back frame" on your traps? Have you read Winer on this? Or maybe you mean "side frame". However, the metal frame is the coolest thing about the DIY project of Helm you referenced. Did you use the metal frames?
If so, did you find the corner bead at either Home Depot or Lowe's? Or somewhere else?

One more question re: the metal frames: Do they put off any metallic sound?

Craig
Old 2nd November 2011
  #16
Gear Nut
 

Yeah, I have heard that loose filler behind a corner trap is most effective. I have a door on one side corner behind my monitors so that isn't an option for me in my control room. I have purchased a curtain track that will suspend a full length panel there that can be moved away from door when needed (another plus with the corner bead, lightweight).

The wood back frame will be mostly for ease of stapling fabric and wall mounting, as opposed to the adhesive method I used on first batch. The first ones I built are open on the back as the spray adhesive would not stick the fabric to itself so well. I also hang two panels in a 'V' for vocal recording. I plan to make two panels with a solid wood 'top', to make a bit more secure. The corner bead frames actually hold a hook quite well, but I am sure over time, moving them will eventually cause them to fail.

Actually I spoke to Ethan about the build with wood back frame recently. All good. The next round of bass traps (when I find the damn time) will be faced with an adhered layer of Kraft paper to the face. Supposedly supposed to increase performance as a bass trap by up to 50%.

The metal frames are from HD and there is no resonance from them. They are tightly pressed against the rockwool and wrapped in fabric, thus dampening any sound or vibration. It is actually quite surprising how rigid these things are once they are assembled and filled with rockwool. And I don't think one could build a more lightweight and portable panel.

I see potential for some creative use of corner bead framed traps that would be difficult with wood alone. Here is a documentation by a friend at HR.
Old 2nd November 2011
  #17
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmys69 View Post
The corner bead frames actually hold a hook quite well, but I am sure over time, moving them will eventually cause them to fail.

The metal frames are from HD and there is no resonance from them. They are tightly pressed against the rockwool and wrapped in fabric, thus dampening any sound or vibration. It is actually quite surprising how rigid these things are once they are assembled and filled with rockwool. And I don't think one could build a more lightweight and portable panel.

I see potential for some creative use of corner bead framed traps that would be difficult with wood alone. Here is a documentation by a friend at HR.
Interesting. The picture from your friend's site makes the corner bead metal look VERY flimsy. I actually saw these corners at HD and kept walking. But, you say they are quite rigid, light, and easily hangable. Sounds perfect for a fixed install.

thanks, Craig
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