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Help!!! Bass Traps
Old 31st December 2010
  #1
Gear Maniac
 
bpsrepair's Avatar
 

Thanks
Old 31st December 2010
  #2
Gear Guru
 
Ethan Winer's Avatar
 

Lightbulb

Yes, you're on the right track. For the corner by the door you could put two panels flat on those areas, rather than one trap straddling. Sort of like this:



And don't forget the wall-ceiling and even wall-floor corners. Those are great places for bass traps too.

--Ethan

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The Acoustic Treatment Experts
Old 1st January 2011
  #3
Lives for gear
 
PaulP's Avatar
 

I can't pass up a chance to point to a great innovation in behind-the-door
corner bass traps :

Could be tricky with two doors though...
Old 1st January 2011
  #4
Gear Maniac
 
bpsrepair's Avatar
 

Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulP View Post
I can't pass up a chance to point to a great innovation in behind-the-door
corner bass traps :

Could be tricky with two doors though...
thats too cool Paul. While I think it would be too tricky for me to use on the two-door corner it'll probably help lots of the guys on GS and it's something i might use in the future if the opportunity presents itself.

Last edited by bpsrepair; 1st January 2011 at 08:14 PM.. Reason: bad grammar
Old 2nd January 2011
  #5
Lives for gear
 

Acoustics wizard - Do you work for Primacoustic? If you do, perhaps you should put this info in your signature.

I posted this in another thread but it also applies here. The Realtraps MegaTrap is very competitive with the Primacoustic MaxTrap.



(from pressure trap behind velocity trap)

Of course, none of this helps the OP with his doors in the corners.
Old 2nd January 2011
  #6
Gear Guru
 
Ethan Winer's Avatar
 

Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcousticsWizard View Post
I don't think you realize how long the wavelengths of such frequencies are.
I don't think your realize how ignorant (and clearly biased) your statements are. First, if you're an acoustics professional posting in an acoustics forum, you do the entire forum a disservice by hiding your identity. If you actually work for an acoustic treatment company while taking pot shots at other companies, hiding who you are is dishonest.

If you want to call yourself a "wizard" you should bone up a bit more on the science. Spend a few hours going through the articles and videos on the RealTraps site, and then you'll understand that even 4-inch and 6-inch thick bass traps can be highly effective down to below 40 Hz if they're designed correctly. This is a good video to start with:

Hearing is Believing

Then let us know if you still have questions or need anything explained further.

--Ethan

________________
The Acoustic Treatment Experts
Old 3rd January 2011
  #7
Lives for gear
 
avare's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethan Winer View Post
If you want to call yourself a "wizard" you should bone up a bit more on the science. Spend a few hours going through the articles and videos on the RealTraps site, and then you'll understand that even 4-inch and 6-inch thick bass traps can be highly effective down to below 40 Hz if they're designed correctly.
There is some outfit from Britian called the BBC that claims the same thing. But what do they know.

Andre
Old 3rd January 2011
  #8
Gear Guru
 
Glenn Kuras's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethan Winer View Post
I don't think your realize how ignorant (and clearly biased) your statements are. First, if you're an acoustics professional posting in an acoustics forum, you do the entire forum a disservice by hiding your identity. If you actually work for an acoustic treatment company while taking pot shots at other companies, hiding who you are is dishonest.

If you want to call yourself a "wizard" you should bone up a bit more on the science. Spend a few hours going through the articles and videos on the RealTraps site, and then you'll understand that even 4-inch and 6-inch thick bass traps can be highly effective down to below 40 Hz if they're designed correctly. This is a good video to start with:

Hearing is Believing

Then let us know if you still have questions or need anything explained further.

--Ethan

________________
The Acoustic Treatment Experts
thumbsup

On so many levels
Old 3rd January 2011
  #9
Gear Guru
 
Ethan Winer's Avatar
 

Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcousticsWizard View Post
This acoustics wizard name is my reeal company name, I just dont have the business registered yet... Acoustics Wizard is my new company in the greater toronto area.
Okay, so you confirm that you are in the business of selling acoustic treatment. Yet you hide your identity, and hide (until now) that you are competing against the same companies whose products you slam. In case you're not aware, not only is that dishonest, and unethical, it also violates Gearslutz rules.

Quote:
I have heard rooms with their bass traps and they destroy rooms i have heard with GIKs.
It appears you are not aware that acoustics is a science. As such, claims of performance require scientific evidence rather than "I heard" anecdotes we see in hi-fi type forums. Next I suppose you'll brag that the traps - whose design you unabashedly copied from someone else - are like "lifting a veil" or similar audiophoole gobbledygook. If you want to claim that one bass trap is better than another, you better be prepared to offer hard science. This article explains the basics of acoustic product testing:

Test Methods for Acoustic Treatment Products

Quote:
my challenge was towards GIK 244 and the GIK monster trap.
I'd say a better challenge for you is to learn more about acoustics, which you can do easily by spending a few days with the RealTraps Articles and
RealTraps Videos pages. You also need to change your forum profile to add your real name, and link to your company web site (if you have one).

Quote:
Therefore, you will need a 17" thick acoustic panel to fully absorb 100Hz.
Dude, you really REALLY need to learn some basics before strutting into this forum pretending to offer expert advice.

--Ethan

________________
The Acoustic Treatment Experts
Old 3rd January 2011
  #10
Gear Guru
 
Ethan Winer's Avatar
 

Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcousticsWizard View Post
Despite the fact that your claims about your GIK 244s and Monster trap completely and wholly contradict the shared primacoustic mathematical calculations which you have not answered at all, your company GIK also claims your tri trap absorbs from 50hz and below
You really need to do some more homework. My company is RealTraps, GIK is owned by Glenn Kuras who has also posted in this thread.

Quote:
that is a layer of vinyl supported on two posts which does not even occupy a quarter of an inch of depth!
Actually, I more or less invented the membrane bass trap as it exists in modern products. RealTraps was the first company I'm aware of to offer such a product commercially off the shelf, going back more than seven years. I'll also save you some research time: RealTraps products are tested at IBM's certified acoustics lab in Poughkeepsie, NY.

Quote:
sorry to burst your bubble chief, but I did not present a challenge to Real Traps, I presented a challenge to GIK.
You're not in a position to challenge anyone and, again, that is unethical and violates Gearslutz rules.

--Ethan

________________
The Acoustic Treatment Experts
Old 3rd January 2011
  #11
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Glenn Kuras's Avatar
Thanks Ethan as you always know how to set someone straight. thumbsup


Quote:
your company GIK also claims your tri trap absorbs from 50hz and below, and yet their test data pdf does not show any numbers at anything close to such a frequency.
Thanks man, REALLY THANKS. It seems as that PDF is the one that goes to around 100hz. I am reposting the correct PDF sometime today that goes to 50hz.
Old 3rd January 2011
  #12
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethan Winer View Post
Yet you hide your identity,
PLease do not make false allegations. Where did I ever hide my identity?

Quote:
hide (until now) that you are competing against the same companies whose products you slam. In case you're not aware, not only is that dishonest, and unethical, it also violates Gearslutz rules.
Do not make false allegations or you will be reported to the admin. That is what I call unethical and contrary to forum policy. I always was a friendly competitor as per many previous posts in the forums. Where did I hide anything? nice try.

Quote:
It appears you are not aware that acoustics is a science.
Then why did I share the actual science?

Quote:
As such, claims of performance require scientific evidence rather than "I heard" anecdotes we see in hi-fi type forums.
Which is why i demonstrated the logic and shared the source of the scientific data. Which challenges your own data.


Quote:
Next I suppose you'll brag that the traps - whose design you unabashedly copied from someone else.
Please do not make false allegations or you will be reported. My trap is influenced by the primacoustic one but has the membrane built into the very back of the trap on different posts. The primacoustic one has the membrane built in the middle of the trap on different posts. Do not make unsupported claims with no evidence to back them.

Quote:
If you want to claim that one bass trap is better than another, you better be prepared to offer hard science. This article explains the basics of acoustic product testing:

Test Methods for Acoustic Treatment Products
Which is what I did. But apparently you either can't read, or you selectively choose to omit reading the article I shared, and you are posting distractions rather than answering the questions raised by that article.


Quote:
I'd say a better challenge for you is to learn more about acoustics, which you can do easily by spending a few days with the RealTraps Articles and
RealTraps Videos pages.
Oh lemme guess, all from YOUR own company right. Jeez, at least use corroborating articles.

Quote:
You also need to change your forum profile to add your real name, and link to your company web site (if you have one).
This IS the real company name.

Quote:
Dude, you really REALLY need to learn some basics before strutting into this forum pretending to offer expert advice.
Already did, you are the one ignoring the basics in the source I shared. And what remains is nothing but bickering on your behalf with nothing to show as a refutation to the numbers I shared.
Old 3rd January 2011
  #13
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Kuras View Post
Thanks Ethan as you always know how to set someone straight. thumbsup
Too badd that attempt was easy to refute as well.


Quote:
Thanks man, REALLY THANKS. It seems as that PDF is the one that goes to around 100hz. I am reposting the correct PDF sometime today that goes to 50hz.
I am going back to the facts and original logical challenge, regardless of files I have every reason to be skeptical of based on the science I shared - so What is the depth of your tri-trap? Does it have the membrane on two posts?

Do you realize how long a 50hz wavelength is? Are you applying the same calculations as the math I shared?
Old 3rd January 2011
  #14
SAC
Registered User
 

So this guy is NOT with Primacoustics, and his product is influenced/based upon them ("My trap is influenced by the primacoustic one but has the membrane built into the very back of the trap), but he cites all of Primacoustics resources as being substantive for his product?

So what company is this guy with? And where are the independent sources for his products?

Here's a suggestion. If you want to push your stuff, how about properly identifying YOUR products independently of the mention of any other company and simply present documentation for your products, and not Primacoustcs.

You are not helping your case, however effective your product(s) (from what/where-ever company) may be.

Hint: You don't have to attack the others, if you have substantiated independent documentation and information (without linking to Primacoustics! - which I am sure they LOVE(sic)!), just post it and let US make a determination.
Old 3rd January 2011
  #15
Lives for gear
 
gullfo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SAC View Post
So what company is this guy with? And where is the independent sources for his products?
...
You are not helping your case, however effective your product (from what/where-ever company) they may be.
LOW PRICED HI-DENSITY ACOUSTIC PANELS BASS TRAPS GOBOS DIFFUSORS - Mississauga / Peel Region Musical Instruments For Sale - Kijiji Mississauga / Peel Region Canada.

Acoustic Wizard | Facebook
Old 3rd January 2011
  #16
Gear Guru
 
Ethan Winer's Avatar
 

Exclamation

I smell a banning in the works. heh
Old 3rd January 2011
  #17
Gear Guru
 
Ethan Winer's Avatar
 

Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcousticsWizard View Post
I have every reason to remain skeptical of the integrity of such research since I have shown an article which invalidates your claims.
I'm not going to get into a dfegad match with you, but all the proof needed is in the Hearing is Believing video I already linked to. Empirical evidence trumps formulas and theory every time. There's also the data from IBM's certified lab on our Product Data and MegaTraps pages.

As for hiding your identity, we still don't know your name.

--Ethan

________________
The Acoustic Treatment Experts

Last edited by Ethan Winer; 3rd January 2011 at 09:53 PM.. Reason: Added links to certified absorption data
Old 3rd January 2011
  #18
SAC
Registered User
 

Thanks Glenn.

You have provided more direct and easily accessible information than the guy who has succeeded only in making himself seem...well...like he is a nasty distributor of Primacoustics stuff. (No disrespect for Primacoustics!)

The funny thing (OK, OK...I am selectively only referencing ONE issue...heh ), I find NO substantiating documentation* on his site...

*Someone will have to provide that link for me as well...
Old 3rd January 2011
  #19
Gear Guru
 
Ethan Winer's Avatar
 

Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by SAC View Post
I find NO substantiating documentation on that site.
Good point SAC. The guy comes in here blasting established legitimate companies for not having data in a form he demands, yet he offers no data at all himself.

--Ethan

________________
The Acoustic Treatment Experts
Old 3rd January 2011
  #20
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agreed, most reputable dealers would have links to test data or can provide it on demand. some of the components there appear to be strongly similar to other products such as the diffuser products. then again they may be re-sales so no issue there.

perhaps we can calm it down and take this back to a discussion where the OP can benefit...
Old 3rd January 2011
  #21
Gear Guru
 
Glenn Kuras's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethan Winer View Post
I smell a banning in the works. heh
Yes the Mod Traps are pretty good at sucking up problems like this. Hell you don't even need to put them in the CORNERS!!
Old 3rd January 2011
  #22
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SAC View Post

The funny thing (OK, OK...I am selectively only referencing ONE issue...heh ), I find NO substantiating documentation* on his site...

*Someone will have to provide that link for me as well...
Articles were provided here. I will invest in my own test data when i find investors to make this a proper corporation. I am focusing on guitars and amps... and everyone already knows my stuff sound proper. Otherwise I would not still be in business after 2 years - making good money. But as I said, thats all irrelevant, the point was not even for me to mention my product but someone prompted me to because they challenged my acousitcs knowledge. I would not have been contracted at Cherry Beach major studios toronto if I did not know what I was talking about.

Thanks
Old 3rd January 2011
  #23
SAC
Registered User
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcousticsWizard View Post
WRONG!

Do not misrepresent my position in this thread.

I have already shown evidence which challenges the other companies...
Trust me: Give yourself more credit! Your position, irrespective of other parties' documentation, does nothing to establish any claims of unethical behavior by anyone else on your part.

Since you are so adept at research, you might want to investigate the scope of liable laws and the applicability to online forums.

You have successfully demonstrated much more of which you are obviously unaware...
Old 3rd January 2011
  #24
Lives for gear
 
Big_Bang's Avatar
 

Hey Wizard dude...

I bow before ye, for mortals may not understand the heavens

I am in complete awe of your work

Straight out of your facebook account

I love you

Investigate this fuuck


.
Attached Thumbnails
Help!!!-wiz1.jpg   Help!!!-wiz2.jpg  
Old 3rd January 2011
  #25
Gear Guru
 
Ethan Winer's Avatar
 

Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcousticsWizard View Post
So go ahead and still ignore all my valid questions you have not even addressed
I must have missed that among all the arguing. Go ahead and post all your questions, clearly and in a single post, and I'll be glad to answer. But please also answer mine: What's your name?

--Ethan

________________
The Acoustic Treatment Experts
Old 3rd January 2011
  #26
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SAC View Post
Hint: You don't have to attack the others, if you have substantiated independent documentation and information (without linking to PrimeAcoustics! - which I am sure they LOVE(sic)!), just post it and let US make a determination.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gullfo View Post
perhaps we can calm it down and take this back to a discussion where the OP can benefit...

Both very good points, in the opinion of this peanut gallery. This feels slightly reminiscent of the guy who walks into a bar at night and bumps into people trying to instigate something.
Old 4th January 2011
  #27
Gear Head
 

Throw in a kitchen sick and we've got a deal! LOL!


Old 4th January 2011
  #28
Lives for gear
 




Is that the sun in the middle of the ceiling? I wish my room was the center of a solar system
Old 4th January 2011
  #29
Gear Maniac
 
bpsrepair's Avatar
 

bps
Old 4th January 2011
  #30
Mod note: I think this thread has gone as far as it needs to go. New members are certainly welcome to ask questions and challenge claims and ideas, but it needs to be done respectfully. The way one delivers the message absolutely affects how a thread will progress, and this one progressed quite predictably with the stimulus given. We aim for a friendly community here, so please all help to maintain that. Thanks.
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