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How do I remove FRK? Dynamics Plugins
Old 22nd December 2010
  #1
Gear Maniac
 

How do I remove FRK?

I have a ton of 2in. rigid fiberglass panels, all of which have FRK on one side. Is there a way to remove the FRK without tearing big chunks of the mineral wool out of the panel? Also, I plan on stacking two panels together for my corners, will it hinder absorption if I leave it on the back of my corner bass traps?

Last edited by lionaudio; 22nd December 2010 at 03:17 AM.. Reason: adding text
Old 22nd December 2010
  #2
Gear Maniac
 

Put the non-FRK side out. Done.
Old 22nd December 2010
  #3
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by locutus View Post
Put the non-FRK side out. Done.
Even when stacking two panels? I would then have FRK, panel, FRK, panel. I know the FRK reflects highs, but I'm concerned that the extra FRK in the middle of the "sandwich" is going to slow bass absorption
Old 22nd December 2010
  #4
Lives for gear
 

you generally want the frk on the outside of the panels. there are some who have done in on the the backside but never in the middle.

ej
Old 22nd December 2010
  #5
Gear Guru
 
Ethan Winer's Avatar
 

Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by lionaudio View Post
I'm concerned that the extra FRK in the middle of the "sandwich" is going to slow bass absorption
Right, you don't want FRK in the middle. So just peel it off slowly and carefully.

--Ethan

________________
The Acoustic Treatment Experts
Old 22nd December 2010
  #6
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethan Winer View Post
Right, you don't want FRK in the middle. So just peel it off slowly and carefully.

--Ethan

________________
The Acoustic Treatment Experts
Thanks Ethan! Every time I post something about acoustic treatment on here, I usually wait until I hear from you. I was just super scared that by peeling off the FRK I would just rip my panel into pieces. It peels right off with no damage! starting on corner trap number 3 as we speak!
Old 23rd December 2010
  #7
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethan Winer View Post
Right, you don't want FRK in the middle. So just peel it off slowly and carefully.

--Ethan
What kind of an effect would FRK in the middle cause? I have a couple of elements I built from second-hand slabs (taken down office building), and stacked several one-inch-thick slabs with FRKs facing inside on each.
Old 23rd December 2010
  #8
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Ethan Winer's Avatar
 

Lightbulb

I'm not certain, but I know it's not good. heh

--Ethan
Old 23rd December 2010
  #9
Gear Guru
 
Glenn Kuras's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethan Winer View Post
I'm not certain, but I know it's not good. heh

--Ethan
What is your guess?? I would think that if you spaced the panel off the panel with the FRK it should work or do you feel that would not work either.
Old 23rd December 2010
  #10
Gear Guru
 
Ethan Winer's Avatar
 

Lightbulb

Not really sure, but 1) this is similar to the testing my partner Doug did that I posted about recently, and 2) I remember Eric Desart addressing this long ago and saying FRK and air gaps in the middle are a bad idea. Please don't make me drive an hour to our factory and spend half a day testing it! heh

Hey, let's raise a "pay Ethan to test" fund. If y'all come up with $200 I'll do it and report the results here.

--Ethan

________________
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Old 23rd December 2010
  #11
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avare's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethan Winer View Post
Hey, let's raise a "pay Ethan to test" fund. If y'all come up with $200 I'll do it and report the results here.
$200 for absorption testing? You should do testing commercially. You would have customers lining up diffusively at your door!

Merry Christmas!

Andre
Old 24th December 2010
  #12
Gear Head
 

Thanks Ethan and Glenn! I suspected this might be something not scientifically tested or proven (...yet, Ethan...

My guess is the difference the FRK in the middle makes wouldn't be big enough to get me rip my elements apart. (Or to pay an expert for the testing, Ethan... Might be enough to peal off the FRKs next time when building new ones.

Merry Christmas to all!
Old 24th December 2010
  #13
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kimkorho View Post
Thanks Ethan and Glenn! I suspected this might be something not scientifically tested or proven (...yet, Ethan...

My guess is the difference the FRK in the middle makes wouldn't be big enough to get me rip my elements apart. (Or to pay an expert for the testing, Ethan... Might be enough to peal off the FRKs next time when building new ones.

Merry Christmas to all!
I've been peeling FRK all day, and never destroyed a panel.. 2 more bass traps and 4 more high freq absorber and then I'm done! until I start on my clouds
Old 24th December 2010
  #14
Gear Guru
 
Ethan Winer's Avatar
 

Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by avare View Post
You should do testing commercially.
Okay, you guys raise $1,000 and I'll do it. heh

Seriously, comparative testing to see what changes does not require a lab. I've done that many times with reliable results. Absolute absorption values are not needed just to see what happens with FRK in the middle. All that matters is what changes versus no FRK or FRK on only one side. You know all this, but for the benefit of others:

Test Methods for Acoustic Treatment Products

--Ethan

________________
The Acoustic Treatment Experts
Old 24th December 2010
  #15
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethan Winer View Post
Okay, you guys raise $1,000 and I'll do it. heh

Seriously, comparative testing to see what changes does not require a lab. I'be done that many times with reliable results. Absolute absorption values are not needed just to see what happens with FRK in the middle. All that matters is what changes versus no FRK or FRK on only one side. You know all this, but for the benefit of others:

Test Methods for Acoustic Treatment Products

--Ethan

________________
The Acoustic Treatment Experts
If you're ever visiting Prescott, AZ, let me know and consider yourself hired!
Old 27th December 2010
  #16
Here for the gear
 

I'm getting ready to build some absorbers from 2 layers of 1½" duct board. If I'm understanding the consensus correctly, I should peal the FRK off of both layers? Thanks.

Paul heh
Old 27th December 2010
  #17
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
I should peal the FRK off of both layers?
It depends on how many frequencies you want to trap. If you want to trap bass and absorb mid-high wavelengths, the safest bet is to peel it all off. If you want to trap bass and reflect other frequencies back into the room, leave the FRK on the outside of the outermost panel. It's no big deal to peal it off if you are just a little bit careful. Don't rip it like a wild man (or woman). Have a sharp blade handy just in case too much fiberglass wants to stay with the FRK.

If you have an overly excited resonant room, peel the FRK both panels. If you are afraid of making your room too tame, leave the FRK on the side of your trap facing into the room.
Old 27th December 2010
  #18
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wretchasketch View Post
It depends on how many frequencies you want to trap. If you want to trap bass and absorb mid-high wavelengths, the safest bet is to peel it all off. If you want to trap bass and reflect other frequencies back into the room, leave the FRK on the outside of the outermost panel. It's no big deal to peal it off if you are just a little bit careful. Don't rip it like a wild man (or woman). Have a sharp blade handy just in case too much fiberglass wants to stay with the FRK.

If you have an overly excited resonant room, peel the FRK both panels. If you are afraid of making your room too tame, leave the FRK on the side of your trap facing into the room.
Thanks Wretch.

heh
Old 27th December 2010
  #19
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loujudson's Avatar
Pardon a dumb question, but what is FRK?
Old 27th December 2010
  #20
Gear Maniac
 

FRK is the foil on the surface of some rigid fiberglass panels.. It is Foil Reinforced Kraft paper.. Kind of like the stuff that grocery bags are made of but with thin foil on it.. Not all rigid fiberglass panels come with it.. I use it to reflect highs in the back of a room where Im trying mainly to just trap bass
Old 27th December 2010
  #21
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loujudson's Avatar
Thanks! I had all sorts of imagined words for those thre letters!

L
Old 30th December 2010
  #22
Gear Addict
 

Now if I wanna ADD FRK to my panels, what kind of material should I get? I've seen some metalized paper in the AC section of our local hardware store, not sure what thickness are used on OC panels.
Old 8th April 2015
  #23
Lives for gear
 

Sorry to revive an old threat, but is it worth buying insulation with FRK and then removing it, or does the glue used to bond the FRK change the porosity too much (making it better to just buy a non-FRK version)? The reason I ask is that with the porosity I'm looking for, the only fiberglass I can locally source comes with FRK.
Old 8th April 2015
  #24
Gear Guru
 
Ethan Winer's Avatar
 

Bass traps work better with FRK. For reflection points and other places you want to absorb higher frequencies, just face the FRK side away from the room toward the wall (or ceiling). That's easier than removing it, and will also absorb a bit more at low frequencies.

--Ethan
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