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No 703 In AUSTRALIA!! Will this do??? Consoles
Old 6th September 2008
  #1
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No 703 In AUSTRALIA!! Will this do???

Hey im having some problems as we dont have 703 in aus. In the brand Bradford i found a product called Quietel it says it is for specialist accoustic treatments. It is 130kg/m3 and here is the absorbsion levels at 50mm
125 250 500 1000 2000 4000 5000 NRC
0.36 0.81 1.12 1.18 1.11 1.12 1.22 1.05

Can anyone tell me if it would be suitable to make bass traps with as everyone i talk to (im in a small country area) doesnt seem to have any idea and i would love your guys opinion before i go ahead and get it.
Old 6th September 2008
  #2
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rushton's Avatar
 

Also for imperial users its 8lbs/ft3 and 2 inch's thick im pretty sure
Old 6th September 2008
  #3
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The acoustic mineral wool equivalent is 64 kg/m^3. The glass wool is 48 kg/m^3. CSR Bradford and Insulco Tasman have appropriate products.

Andre
Old 6th September 2008
  #4
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Could someone explain why for me when the quietel looks to be a fairly good low frequency absorber even compared to 703 when i have seen the stats for that.
Old 6th September 2008
  #5
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Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by rushton View Post
Could someone explain why for me when the quietel looks to be a fairly good low frequency absorber even compared to 703 when i have seen the stats for that.
Not sure exactly what you're asking, but it's well known that lab measurements vary a lot. So absorption data is not like frequency response or distortion specs with gear that are highly repeatable even if measured by different people five years apart. More about the limitations of standard absorption testing here:

RealTraps - Alternative Test Methods

--Ethan
Old 6th September 2008
  #6
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Haha i was probably a little vague with that question ive been asking similar questions over this topic and another so i probably didnt ask it right. I was wondering why the quietel was not a prefered insulation type for bass traps when its values according to the absorption chart look better then 703 or more in particular bradford fibretex 350 rockwool which is the australian equivilent. Then i got into internal reflections due to densities of the material with andre yesterday so that pretty much answered my question. I will have more this arve though one i get a couple of photos of my room a drawing and a comparison of the rockwool and glasswool that bradford recommends for recording studios all sorted.
Old 8th September 2008
  #7
Gear Nut
 

And a few months ago I went through this elusive 703 search all over Australia. Nobody had even heard of it. I realised I could order it from ebay but only in lots of about 10 sheets which was far more than I needed.

Had checked out Bradford but was confused. I will await eagerly your results for the best materials Rushton and thereby allow you to work out what I could not
Old 8th September 2008
  #8
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bradford fibertex 350 is the answer from what andre is telling us and he knows his stuff. the closest thing i found to 703 was bradford ultratel but he thinks the 350 would be better i should have mine made in a few weeks hopefully im going to use 350
Old 9th September 2008
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rushton View Post
bradford fibertex 350 is the answer from what andre is telling us and he knows his stuff. the closest thing i found to 703 was bradford ultratel but he thinks the 350 would be better i should have mine made in a few weeks hopefully im going to use 350
Hey Ryan have you priced the 350 yet? I'm just figuring out how much I need then I'll email for a quote from my local supplier. I'll post back when I get that info.

Harry
Old 9th September 2008
  #10
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Yeah i ordered mine this morn. I got the 350 in 1500mm x 900mm x 50mm bags, they come with with 6 pieces and i ordered 2 bags. They cost $173.68 a bag. I will prob have left overs as i needed 8 pieces to do 2 super chunk corners with the 2 equal sides equaling 450mm then im just going to make the panels up as i need them by cutting the pieces into 4 and doubling them up to make them 100mm thick.
What are you using for frames i was thinking about getting that tin angle as mine need to be moveable i cant install them and im restricted in space. I might use pine yet though im not sure have to work that out next haha. Also what fabric you going to get?
Old 10th September 2008
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rushton View Post
Yeah i ordered mine this morn. I got the 350 in 1500mm x 900mm x 50mm bags, they come with with 6 pieces and i ordered 2 bags. They cost $173.68 a bag.
I think I need 4 bags of 1500mm x 1200mm, as you probably know, they have 3 pieces per bag. Looks like this is going to be more expensive than I first thought.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rushton View Post
I will prob have left overs as i needed 8 pieces to do 2 super chunk corners with the 2 equal sides equaling 450mm then im just going to make the panels up as i need them by cutting the pieces into 4 and doubling them up to make them 100mm thick.
I'll be making mine 1200mm x 600mm and 100mm thick for the corners. I'm not sure how thick to make the RFZ absorbers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rushton View Post
What are you using for frames i was thinking about getting that tin angle as mine need to be moveable i cant install them and im restricted in space. I might use pine yet though im not sure have to work that out next haha. Also what fabric you going to get?
I was thinking of using 1" pine for the frames.
The top sticky has pics of the style I'm thinking of. Page 17 post #491 onwards.

Fabric is something I haven't even begun to look for, so I have no idea what I'll use.

Harry

Last edited by doodlebug; 10th September 2008 at 04:23 AM.. Reason: added link to frame design
Old 10th September 2008
  #12
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Ive decided im going to do mine in this style
Steven P. Helm: DIY Bass Traps
the only thing i am going to do different is make an actual frame for my superchunk corner traps and have 4 1.15m triangle boxes and stack them up 2 high in the front corners of my room so it goes from wall to ceiling.
Old 10th September 2008
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rushton View Post
Ive decided im going to do mine in this style
Steven P. Helm: DIY Bass Traps
the only thing i am going to do different is make an actual frame for my superchunk corner traps and have 4 1.15m triangle boxes and stack them up 2 high in the front corners of my room so it goes from wall to ceiling.

I knew I bookmarked that page for a reason, thanks for reminding me. I'm going to straddle the corners from floor to ceiling.

Harry
Old 22nd September 2008
  #14
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I thought I'd chip in, in regards to fabric, doodlebug.

The very best, affordable stuff I could find is a product called Top Pop Poplin, sold in Spotlight all across the country. You can get it in all sorts of colors, though we opted for black. Let me tell you, put together, it looks fantastic... totally jet black. It's not ridiculously porous like Burlap so it will contain the insulation fibers inside to a degree, plus it looks much better to boot and breathes just enough.

My search for the 'ideal' Australian insulation is ongoing... the price on that Fibertex 350 stuff is ridiculous... almost a joke.

I'm considering looking into Insulco Semi-Rigid, but am concerned as it is only 32kg/m3.
Old 23rd September 2008
  #15
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I just bit the bullet and ordered the fibertex 350 i ended up getting 2 bags of it and its costing me a little over 350. I didnt think it was too bad considering how much foam panels or proper panels cost. Material wise i was going to get calico and put some wadding underneath it to hold in the fibers ill look into the other stuff though thanks.
Old 24th September 2008
  #16
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What thickness do you intend to make the traps?

The Fibertex350 seems to have fairly poor low-end absorption at 50mm thickness, so are you intending to make your broadbands a bit thicker to get more even coverage?
Old 16th October 2008
  #17
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i made the majority of them 100mm thick and a couple of 50 mm thick ones. im making superchunk style traps for the corners ill post some pics once im all done
Old 24th October 2008
  #18
Gear Nut
 

I had this problem. Somewhere on the net there is a spreadsheet of various products and their characteristics.

I have a hard copy at home. I found that the best/most cost-effective solution was not a batt, but a foil-backed roof insulation product that comes in a roll. I chose the thinnest foil and R3.6. Is 95mm thick and comes in a 12 sq m roll. Cuts perfectly in the typical 2ft by 4ft configuration. I bought bags from Ready traps.

I think it was CSR Bradford Anticon 95 and is available from Bunnings. About $120 for 12 sq m.....So you can buy a lot...

So investigate roofing insulation and when you find it post it and I will confirm that its the right stuff. Specs were better than the specialist acoustic materials (at low freqs).

Cheers,
Mihaly
Old 24th October 2008
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mihaly View Post
I had this problem. Somewhere on the net there is a spreadsheet of various products and their characteristics.
http://www.bobgolds.com/AbsorptionCoefficients.htm There you go.

Concisely, well at least in providing the link,
Andre
Old 24th October 2008
  #20
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im interested to see the results as i plan on putting up bass traps with the same material, well either the fibertex 350, 450, or 650 havent yet decided...

the guy in the tutorial steven P uses material with a density of 128kg/m^3 ?????? thats alot.. am i reading it wrong?
Old 11th February 2009
  #21
Gear Nut
Hey guys,

First off to everyone as this is my first post.

I live in Aus and I'm just ordered some krk vxt 8's as my ****ty behringer truths were driving me insane.
I've been reading up on acoustic room treatment for a while and I too am having a similar problem finding the right materials

Just wondering how you guys went with treating your rooms with local materials.

Ermz - did you have any luck with the AIS products? MPS 400 any good in the end?

Rushton - Did you finish treating your room? How do you rate the Fibertex 350? Worth the money?

Mihaly - That's definitely the most affordable solution I've seen. Looking at the data sheet though it's 11kg/m3 and comes up to 130 mm thickness (5.1") but none of them are rating as R3.6 (not that I even know what that means ) Is this the stuff you got? Does it do the job?

http://www.bradfordinsulation.com.au...3e544f65f7.pdf
Old 13th February 2009
  #22
Gear Nut
Also, just to clarify, with the absorption coefficients, I'm guessing you want it as even as possible across all frequencies. But is higher better, or closer to 1.0?

Cheers.
Old 20th February 2009
  #23
Gear Nut
Ok I just ordered ...
2 bags of 100 mm fibertex 350. 2 sheets of 1500 x 1200 per bag - for corner traps
1 bag of 50mm fibertex 350. 3 sheets of 1500 x 1200 for broadband absorber panels at the first reflection points.

total $320 .... expensive but doesn't seem to be anything cheaper available with decent ratings.

fingers crossed.
Old 20th February 2009
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TequilaKez View Post
Ok I just ordered ...
2 bags of 100 mm fibertex 350. 2 sheets of 1500 x 1200 per bag - for corner traps
1 bag of 50mm fibertex 350. 3 sheets of 1500 x 1200 for broadband absorber panels at the first reflection points.

total $320 .... expensive but doesn't seem to be anything cheaper available with decent ratings.

fingers crossed.

You must be in WA coz in Vic we can only get them in 1500x900 sheets and a pack contains 6 sheets at around $135. I'm still in the process of working out exactly how much I need before placing my order. Unfortunately, you can't get them w/FRK or any type of facing unless you order a large amount.

Harry
Old 21st February 2009
  #25
Gear Nut
QLD actually. I think it comes in the same sizes everywhere, the available types are listed in the datasheet.

http://www.bradfordinsulation.com.au...da491b0b95.pdf.

The 50mm comes in 1500 x 900 x 6 sheets but you would need to double up to get any decent bass absoption and that size doesn't divide as nicely as 1500 x 1200.

I figure for 4 corner traps in a room with 2.5 meter ceiling height, I cut the 100mm stuff like this



....so for 2 bags with 2 sheets each, I can make four, 2500 x 600 x 100 floor to ceiling bass traps straddling all corners, plus leftovers to make two 1200 x 500 x 100 panels for the rear wall.

I plan on cutting the 50mm up for panels at the first reflection points and a cloud.

To save time/wood/work ect, I'd like to use one whole 1500 x 1200 x 50 piece as a cloud above the listening position, but a piece that big was most definatly sag.

What would be the best way to keep a piec that back from sagging? could a put some thin strips of wood across the front of the cloud, or is it better to use chicken wire or something?
Old 22nd February 2009
  #26
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Hi

I made some calico covered glasswool batts up a few years back - I got the batts from CMG Sales in Sydney Consolidated Metro Group.

They were called HDI-50, and are 48kg 2400x1200x50mm bats, and were $44.80+gst in 2004.

I'm moving house and are selling some of them:

FS - Bits and pieces (Australia)

Call me on 0410 86 86 12 if you have any questions

Cheers

Shaun
Old 14th January 2010
  #27
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Glasswool v's Rockwool

Does anyone know the difference between Glasswool and Rockwool in terms of potential to act as bass traps and mid/high absorbers?

I just purchased some AGI Cylence Batts ($50 for a bag of 16 - 1160x430x75mm panels - pretty cheap really) and realised that they are 'glasswool' - There density is only 18kg/m3 - if I make them thicker - ie use 3 lots of batts, will that assist with the low level density of these batts?

I've built traps using two panels together - so 150mm thick (6 inches)

I guess the other test that I need to do is get myself set up to measure the room without the traps and then measure it again with the traps and see what the difference is.
Old 14th January 2010
  #28
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I don't know how helpful this is on the topic, but my research found that the best products available in Australia are Bradford Supertel and Tontine Acoustisorb 3. But I found some CSR/Bradford Soundscreen at Bunnings (in Hobart) - its a bit less dense at 32kg/m^3 or something, but I'll make up for it by making my bass traps 150mm thick (2 x 75mm layers). The price was reasonable, about $35 per bag of 6 sheets.
Old 14th January 2010
  #29
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Yeah cool. I found another product here locally in Melbourne call Audiopanel by Fletcher Insulation - 96kg/m^3!

Still waiting on a reply from Mitre 10 regarding pricing though - assuming it may be expensive, but very dense!

Physical Characteristics
Thickness (mm)
25 50

Dimensions (mm)*
3000 x 1200

Density (kg/m
3) 96
Mass/Unit Area (kg/m2) 2.4 & 4.8


Acoustic Performance
Audio Panel
has the following sound absorption coefficients when tested in accordance with AS1045
by the Reverberation Room Method (Mounting N4-laid flat on floor).

Nominal Thickness (mm) Sound absorption coefficients (reverberation) at frequencies (Hz) of:
125 250 500 1000 2000 NRC
0.16 0.27 0.67 0.88 1.02 0.70
0.19 0.86 1.08 1.17 1.06 1.05
Old 14th January 2010
  #30
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You guys in Australia also have (for some reason) exclusive access to
polyester insulation.

Paul P
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