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New RealTraps Educational Video - All About Diffusion Dynamics Plugins
Old 14th August 2008
  #31
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Ethan Winer's Avatar
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarwes View Post
Let's see a video of large amounts of the different kinds of treatment in a 15x20ish room, with the mic and player set up in a normal spot.
Yes, that would be great. But do you have any idea how expensive that would be and how much effort is needed? I'll venture it would require $20,000 worth of diffusors and take four people several days to install them all, record some music, replace all the diffusors with polys or something else, and so forth. And to be a fair comparison it would all have to be done in the same room. Versus drive to a studio that has a bunch of QRD diffusors and record, then drive to another studio that has a bunch of polys and record. That would be meaningless.

Believe me, I am well aware of the limitations of my test. But it's the only practical way I could think of to show the difference in sound between all of those surface types. If anyone has a better idea, I'd love to hear it.

--Ethan
Old 14th August 2008
  #32
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There's a paper from RPG regarding this control room Eric is talking about

http://www.rpginc.com/news/seminars/Diffuse_Seminar_2007_iRoom.pdf
Old 14th August 2008
  #33
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Not quite $20,000. Heck, you own the company with a warehouse full of them! I'm only kidding about that, because I completely understand how long and painful it is to just build one diffuser.

But with some friends pooling resources, one could easily go about adding a reasonable amount of treatment (not treatment covering every square inch of wall and ceiling) and showing the difference between different treatment strategies.

Also, in an earlier post, I mentioned the creation of a thread with our (GS'ers) own before and after examples of treatment within a room. We can post soundclips of the rooms. These examples would be more useful for live rooms instead of control rooms, but could still give people an idea of what different treatment strategies sound like within a studio, and in context of the whole room.
Old 14th August 2008
  #34
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Glenn Kuras's Avatar
Quote:
Also, in an earlier post, I mentioned the creation of a thread with our (GS'ers) own before and after examples of treatment within a room. We can post soundclips of the rooms. These examples would be more useful for live rooms instead of control rooms, but could still give people an idea of what different treatment strategies sound like within a studio, and in context of the whole room.
I for one thick that is a great idea. thumbsupthumbsup

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by duvalle View Post
i think it's clear that this video is somekind of a commercial for realtraps.
If everyone here would like to chip in and pay, say, $4,000 to produce an educational video with absolutely no commercial content, I'll be glad to do that.
Don't sell yourself SHORT!!!!!! heh

Glenn
Old 14th August 2008
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrebrito View Post
There's a paper from RPG regarding this control room Eric is talking about

http://www.rpginc.com/news/seminars/Diffuse_Seminar_2007_iRoom.pdf
Thanks very much for this. Incredible. At this point I would pretty much kill just to stand in Blackbird Studio C and talk. I gotta know what that sounds like!

The one thing I'm wondering is... What is a reflection rich zone (RRZ)? How does one design that (what kind of treatment is needed and what kind of placement)? Is that where close diffusion is placed in a large room, as in Skywalker Sound?
Old 14th August 2008
  #36
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Quote:
The one thing I'm wondering is... What is a reflection rich zone (RRZ)? How does one design that (what kind of treatment is needed and what kind of placement)? Is that where close diffusion is placed in a large room, as in Skywalker Sound?
There's a picture of a RRZ on that PDF.. it's George Massenburg's, The Complex
Old 14th August 2008
  #37
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Ethan Winer's Avatar
 

Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Kuras View Post
Don't sell yourself SHORT!!!!!! heh
I was going to say $6,000, but I probably could have produced that video for about $4,000. In this case the guy who manned the camera is a good friend who owed me a favor. Otherwise that would have been $2,000 right there.

I spent 6 hours on the poly, so even at handyman rates there's another $200 or $300.

Writing a technical script for a 12-minute video has gotta be worth at least another grand.

I suck as on-camera talent so that part is free. heh

Rental for my professional lighting is probably about $200.

Rental for $2400 worth of acoustic treatment is at least another $400, if you could even rent acoustic treatment.

I spent more than an hour taking all the books off my shelf, putting the shelf on a rolling cart, loading it all up again, taking it all off, and putting the shelf and books back again.

Shall I continue?

Seriously, I did this video not to sell stuff, but because most people have no way to hear what diffusors sound like in person. The first time I stood in front of an RPG diffusor at Wes Lachot's studio and "talked into" it, two seconds later half a dozen light bulbs went on. It was an invaluable lesson. That's what I tried to get across in this video.

Hopefully this video will help Glenn too. It'd be great if Glenn and I got together some day to do an educational acoustics video together.

--Ethan
Old 14th August 2008
  #38
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Ethan, we're just ragging on ya because we love ya!

We might should hire Spielberg to direct and use Jackie Chan as Ethan's stunt double.
Old 15th August 2008
  #39
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Ethan Winer's Avatar
 

Lightbulb

I know, and there ya go. heh

Speaking of how much it should cost to produce a video, here's a funny story. A few days after I made the video How to program analog synthesizers, I got an email from a large and well-known soft-synth company asking if I would make a version customized for them using their software. I said okay, and suggested $1,000 as a reasonable fee. That was the last I heard from them.

Is $1,000 really too much to ask for a 20 minute video? Sheesh!

--Ethan
Old 15th August 2008
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethan Winer View Post
Is $1,000 really too much to ask for a 20 minute video?
Around here, it costs about $1,000 per minute of finished product minimum. Standing sets or location shots, one camera, no fx. So I guess your quote was way off for a 20 minute video.heh

Visually,
Andre
Old 15th August 2008
  #41
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Glenn Kuras's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethan Winer View Post
I know, and there ya go. heh

Speaking of how much it should cost to produce a video, here's a funny story. A few days after I made the video How to program analog synthesizers, I got an email from a large and well-known soft-synth company asking if I would make a version customized for them using their software. I said okay, and suggested $1,000 as a reasonable fee. That was the last I heard from them.

Is $1,000 really too much to ask for a 20 minute video? Sheesh!

--Ethan
Ines' (my girlfriend) company does videos all the time for major companies and charge WAY more then that. I don't want to say how much but lets just say that $1000 doesn't even turn on the camera. heh and yes these are mostly inner company videos.

Glenn
Old 15th August 2008
  #42
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Glenn Kuras's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethan Winer View Post

Hopefully this video will help Glenn too. It'd be great if Glenn and I got together some day to do an educational acoustics video together.

--Ethan
Any time and I have perfect one "Mythes of Acoustics"

Lets talk soon.

Glenn
Old 15th August 2008
  #43
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Ethan Winer's Avatar
 

Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Kuras View Post
I have perfect one "Mythes of Acoustics"
You're on buddy! I have a clever and funny idea too. I'll call you later.

--Ethan
Old 15th August 2008
  #44
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Ethan Winer's Avatar
 

Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by avare View Post
Around here, it costs about $1,000 per minute of finished product minimum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Kuras View Post
$1000 doesn't even turn on the camera.
Exactly. So who here is willing to pay me $300k for all the educational acoustics videos I've done so far? heh

--Ethan
Old 19th August 2008
  #45
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I don't care if Ethan runs a Real Traps banner across the top of the videos. I might even let him tatoo one on my back.This guy bends over backwards to educate people on acoustics and how to design and build their own traps. The guy actually encourages you to build a product he sells! Ethan is on every site I hit educating people. Without Ethans guidance my room would sound like crap. Now the only thing that sounds like crap in my room is my guitar playing.

$1000/minute is a good estimate for a basic finished educational video. Ethans possible demands for a private trailer, craft services and personal assistant could drive that price up a bit. A 20 minute educational video would put most people to sleep or have them trying to open a vein. 8 minutes tops. Get a pro to ruthlessly edit the script.

Ethan, I live right up the road from you in Connecticut and work in the photography and video industry. Drop me a line any time you want to make a video and I'll load up a truck full of gear and head on down to help you out.

Who knows, maybe you'll be so grateful a couple of real trap seconds might come my way : )


While I'm at it, Big thanks to Glenn and the guys at GIK. You guys are fantastic also. Same deal for you guys. I'll shoot your video and all your photography. Just drop me a couple of first class tickets and set me up at the nearest 4 Seasons.... Oh yeah schedule me for a massage.
Old 19th August 2008
  #46
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andrebrito's Avatar
 

I think that if each GS member gives 20 bucks for this task we can do it ! hahaha !
Old 19th August 2008
  #47
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Ethan Winer's Avatar
 

Lightbulb

Thanks dft! I used to borrow a pro Sony camera from a friend and one or the other of us would run it. Now I have another friend Mark Weiss who lives very close, and he has a pair of those new Sony XdCams. Mark did the camera and lighting for the Diffusion video.

If you weren't two hours away I'd surely take you up on your offer. I'm getting ready to do another video soon, this time about setting up the ideal home studio. But if you're ever out my way, please let me know. I'd love to have you over for a visit.

--Ethan
Old 19th August 2008
  #48
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Glenn Kuras's Avatar
Quote:
While I'm at it, Big thanks to Glenn and the guys at GIK. You guys are fantastic also. Same deal for you guys. I'll shoot your video and all your photography. Just drop me a couple of first class tickets and set me up at the nearest 4 Seasons.... Oh yeah schedule me for a massage.
Sounds like a deal to me!!!!!!!

Quote:
I don't care if Ethan runs a Real Traps banner across the top of the videos. I might even let him tatoo one on my back.This guy bends over backwards to educate people on acoustics and how to design and build their own traps. The guy actually encourages you to build a product he sells! Ethan is on every site I hit educating people. Without Ethans guidance my room would sound like crap.
Yea and I find it pretty incredible that one of his competitors has nothing better to do then to sit on some other forum and take pot shots at him. Jealousy run wild.

Glenn

Glenn
Old 23rd July 2009
  #49
JWL
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Saw this old thread bumped, and read the part about "before" and "after" treatment with interest. Well, here ya go:

RealTraps - Ultimate Small Mixing & Mastering Room
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