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New Studio. Need acoustic help! Diffusion Products
Old 17th August 2007
  #1
Registered User
 

New Studio. Need acoustic help!

So me and my friend are starting a studio, and need help with where to place acoustic treatment, and what to buy/make. I have decided that the guy who designed this "studio" didn't know what the f*ck he was doing. We don't have the option/money to knock down walls and completely redesign so what acoustic treatment will help us here, we have a limited budget. Here are the dimensions.


-The live room has a drywall ceiling, cedar walls, with a patch of cedar in the center of the floor, surrounded by carpet. There is a window from the live room to the control room. The wall dimensions are almost exactly the same.


-The control room is drywall floors and ceilings, with a carpet floor. Weirdly, the window is off center in the room.


-There's an iso room which will probably be used as a vocal booth. There is an angled wall I estimated to be about 120 or so degrees. I would be easy to figure this out exactly given the dimensions I think, but I haven't taken math in forever.
Attached Thumbnails
New Studio. Need acoustic help!-studio-dimensions.jpg  
Old 17th August 2007
  #2
Old 17th August 2007
  #3
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
Ceilings are angled yes? How about the walls? Is there any splay? Having a box (or close to it) for a live room isn't so bad so long as the walls aren't parallel... even then it'd be workable if not ideal. Not a big fan of the "wood island" floor style but I've seen it done before...

Off center window in the control room seems 'ok' in that picture... it's more towards the 'back' of the room right?
Old 17th August 2007
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Kahrs View Post
Ceilings are angled yes? How about the walls? Is there any splay? Having a box (or close to it) for a live room isn't so bad so long as the walls aren't parallel... even then it'd be workable if not ideal. Not a big fan of the "wood island" floor style but I've seen it done before...

Off center window in the control room seems 'ok' in that picture... it's more towards the 'back' of the room right?
In the control room there's ~8ft, then the window, then ~12.5ft on the wall with the window. The mix position would be right in front of the window so I can see the bands while tracking. It's a normal double paned window with both panes angled. I thought the off center window would cause uneven reflections when mixing.

The walls aren't angled at all. The ceilings in the live room are angled slightly. No other ceilings are angled.
Old 17th August 2007
  #5
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
The control room window is on the long wall right? So if you place the console at the window for the "best" view the monitors will be firing into the short wall?

Acoustically, that's pretty bad. Monitors should be firing down the length of the room... console placed at the front of the longer, 12 foot section.
Old 17th August 2007
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Kahrs View Post
The control room window is on the long wall right? So if you place the console at the window for the "best" view the monitors will be firing into the short wall?

Acoustically, that's pretty bad. Monitors should be firing down the length of the room... console placed at the front of the longer, 12 foot section.
So you'd advise that I set it up firing the long way, and i'd have to look to my right or left to see the band, depending on which way I'm facing?

Then one wall would be drywall, and the other would be the window, when i'm at my mix position, but that's still maybe a better idea.
Old 17th August 2007
  #7
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by briefcasemanx View Post
So you'd advise that I set it up firing the long way, and i'd have to look to my right or left to see the band, depending on which way I'm facing?

Then one wall would be drywall, and the other would be the window, when i'm at my mix position, but that's still maybe a better idea.
Totally.

I'd also get a big, thick curtain to pull over the window when mixing and for 'privacy' in the room for sensitive artists... Something like a theatre curtain to 'block' the glass is what you'll need. Put some kinda absoprtive treatment on the opposing wall so the stereo imaging is kinda right.

Firing the short length of the room will create all kinds of sonic havoc...
Old 17th August 2007
  #8
Gear Guru
 
Glenn Kuras's Avatar
For sure you are going to want to face the short wall and fire the monitors down the long wall. Doing it the other way just is not going to work.

Do you have any plans (ideas) now for acoustics? You got a lot going on and not sure if there is enough room to type out everything that might need done.

If you plan on buying the acoustics I would HIGHLY recommend getting with the company and going through every room one by one. There are general things you can do like bass trapping, panels for reflections and diffusion, but I think you need a pro to work you though each room and do it right.

Glenn
Old 17th August 2007
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myfipie View Post
For sure you are going to want to face the short wall and fire the monitors down the long wall. Doing it the other way just is not going to work.

Do you have any plans (ideas) now for acoustics? You got a lot going on and not sure if there is enough room to type out everything that might need done.

If you plan on buying the acoustics I would HIGHLY recommend getting with the company and going through every room one by one. There are general things you can do like bass trapping, panels for reflections and diffusion, but I think you need a pro to work you though each room and do it right.

Glenn
We don't have money enough to have a guy come in and work that out with us, if that's what you mean. We probably only have like 1.5 to 2k to spend on acoustic treatment in this initial phase. If you meant there's not enough room in the picture I attached, maybe someone could just blow it up like 4-6x the size for more room.

I was thinking maybe bass traps in at least 2 corners of the live room, to hopefully kind of help curb some of the room modes what with the near squareness of the room and all. And maybe some diffusors since there is some pretty audible flutter echo at(i'm guessing) 2k-ish, from the parallel walls.

I don't really enough about acoustics to know what else to get, or where to place things. I was hoping to get some help on here.
Old 17th August 2007
  #10
Lives for gear
 

The live room is going to need some bass control. Plan on all 4 vertical corners floor to ceiling and a few straddling some of the wall/ceiling intersections. I'd use a hard floor and cloud type ceiling for better results if budget allows. You'll also want some diffusion in that room. It's large enough to support it along with a few scattered panels on the side walls but not opposite each other.

In the control room, definitely set up to face the long dimension but maybe we can work it so a good acoustical seating position has the window to your side for easy viewing. That will still then not get in the way of reflection control. Again, in this room, you'll want bass absorbtion floor to ceiling in the 4 corners. Dead front wall pretty much, and a little absorbtion scattered. Diffusion is appropriate in the back half on the side walls and on the rear wall. Again, hard floor - soft ceiling is the way I'd go.

The booth treatment would depend on exactly what you're going to use it for. Normally, we'd make that pretty much totally dead.

Let me know if you have any questions.

Bryan
Old 17th August 2007
  #11
Gear Guru
 
Ethan Winer's Avatar
 

Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by briefcasemanx View Post
We don't have money enough to have a guy come in and work that out with us
That's not usually necessary. A good acoustic treatment company will work with your drawings and photos and tell you exactly what to buy and where to put it. However ...

Quote:
I was thinking maybe bass traps in at least 2 corners of the live room ...
That's not nearly enough for professional level results. If you think about it, a room has hundreds, or even thousands, of reflecting surface. All of those surfaces cause peaks and nulls, comb filtering, flutter echo, and low frequency ringing. Since your live room is basically square, that requires even more bass trapping to tame.

--Ethan
Old 17th August 2007
  #12
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where/how would I place diffusors in the live room.
Old 17th August 2007
  #13
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethan Winer View Post
Since your live room is basically square, that requires even more bass trapping to tame.

--Ethan
Or a REALLY sizeable assortment of amps, keys & other music making bits to break up all the reflections...

You'll also need diffusion on the rear wall of the control room.

How are your woodworking skills? It'd be much less expensive to build diffusors then to buy ready made...
Old 18th August 2007
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Kahrs View Post
Or a REALLY sizeable assortment of amps, keys & other music making bits to break up all the reflections...

You'll also need diffusion on the rear wall of the control room.

How are your woodworking skills? It'd be much less expensive to build diffusors then to buy ready made...
build them how?
Old 18th August 2007
  #15
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by briefcasemanx View Post
build them how?
Ummmmm...


With powertools, saws and wood.

You'll probably need glue or screws too...adheasives of some sort.





Tall bookcases stuffed with books would be equally effective.
Old 19th August 2007
  #16
Gear Guru
 
Ethan Winer's Avatar
 

Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by briefcasemanx View Post
where/how would I place diffusors in the live room.
On the walls and optionally on the ceiling if it's high. I was in Studio A at Criteria / Hit Factory earlier this year and the entire ceiling was covered with deep skyline diffusors. The room was surprisingly live, but the liveness had no hint of resonance or emphasizing only some frequencies. This way the engineers can easily adjust the amount of room tone picked up by putting the microphones closer or farther from the performers. The diffusors ensure that the room tone is neutral, not boxy or "small" sounding.

The point of diffusion in a live room is to avoid flutter echo but without adding absorption which would reduce the reverb time. How much diffusion is useful, and where it will work best, depends entirely on the size of the room.

--Ethan
Old 20th August 2007
  #17
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Kahrs View Post
Ummmmm...


With powertools, saws and wood.

You'll probably need glue or screws too...adheasives of some sort.
Don't forget manual skills....this is always the part I forget to bring.

Jason
Old 20th August 2007
  #18
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by briefcasemanx View Post
where/how would I place diffusors in the live room.
It is going to depend on what is playing and where. If you have drums in a corner, you will want mostly (if not all) absorption.

Though, on other walls you will want to make an array of diffusers. For this type of room you would want to make an array of 1-D diffusers with some running horizontal and some vertical. I have attached a sample picture.

If you have something, or someone, playing close to the wall you may want to use smaller diffusion arrays with some absorption mixed in.

JasonNew Studio. Need acoustic help!-practice-room-2.jpg
Old 21st August 2007
  #19
Gear Maniac
 
iflyinmymind's Avatar
 

Hello! Great topic.
I have a large room right now, 900 sq ft. And its all masonry.

I want to build skyline diffusers, because i just happen to have 2"x2"x10 foot solid wood strips from a long table.


I have many sealed panel trap absorbers already i built from Mr. Winer's old design, they work well, and im very happy them.

I know they will be heavy so i want to make them managable, because my recording space is not permanent.

Can anyone point me in the right direction to build my own skyline diffusers?

I know it will be worth it..!

Thanks for any help.

Todd
Old 21st August 2007
  #20
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by iflyinmymind View Post
Hello! Great topic.
I have a large room right now, 900 sq ft. And its all masonry.

I want to build skyline diffusers, because i just happen to have 2"x2"x10 foot solid wood strips from a long table.


I have many sealed panel trap absorbers already i built from Mr. Winer's old design, they work well, and im very happy them.

I know they will be heavy so i want to make them managable, because my recording space is not permanent.

Can anyone point me in the right direction to build my own skyline diffusers?

I know it will be worth it..!

Thanks for any help.

Todd
What is the room for?

Jason
Old 21st August 2007
  #21
Gear Maniac
 
iflyinmymind's Avatar
 

Hello, it is my only tracking and mixing room. It is 44ft long and 23ft wide with 11ft ceilings. I record drums and well, everything there. I cant stay in that room forever, but the time being i need to do something constructive with all this nice wood i have! Im really just wondering where i might find some solid construction advice..for lengths and configurations of these cut pieces. T

Thanks So much!
Todd
Old 21st August 2007
  #22
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by iflyinmymind View Post
Hello, it is my only tracking and mixing room. It is 44ft long and 23ft wide with 11ft ceilings. I record drums and well, everything there. I cant stay in that room forever, but the time being i need to do something constructive with all this nice wood i have! Im really just wondering where i might find some solid construction advice..for lengths and configurations of these cut pieces. T

Thanks So much!
Todd
You're 2x2's will work well. Here is a link to a "map" of the lengths and placement of pieces: HiFi Speaker Design © mhSoft <%=year(now())%>

You will want to make the longest length 6-8", but you have to consider weight and material, etc. etc. Once you pick a "longest" length, you can calculate the other lengths. If the map has a 4, you would multiply 4/4 * your longest length. If it has a 3, you would multiply 3/4 * your longest length....etc. etc..

Good luck!

Jason
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