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Where to Buy Stuff - Gik Acoustics and.... Bass Traps
Old 21st February 2019
  #1
Gear Maniac
 
Touch The Universe's Avatar
 

Where to Buy Stuff - Gik Acoustics and....

I like the offerings of GIK acoustics and wanted to know if there are other places doing the same thing designs on acoustic panelling and traps.
Old 21st February 2019
  #2
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bgood's Avatar
Gik and primacoustic all day

(Search your local craigslist, et al first)
Old 21st February 2019
  #3
Gear Maniac
 
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What's the difference between the GIK acoustic panelling and their bass traps. They look like the same thing, just thicker? I've seen bass trap foam that is triangle shaped with three sides, hence more area, are these better or worse than a sheet adjoining two corners?
Old 21st February 2019
  #4
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bgood's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Touch The Universe View Post
What's the difference between the GIK acoustic panelling and their bass traps. They look like the same thing, just thicker? I've seen bass trap foam that is triangle shaped with three sides, hence more area, are these better or worse than a sheet adjoining two corners?
That’s a whole other ball of wax that I’ll leave to the experts here... generally, foam of any sort can pretty much go f*ck itself as it really only successfully reduces the amount of money in your pocket... and maybe some room flutter and HF content

The Gik and primacoustic stuff is just beautifully made and pleasant to work around...
Old 21st February 2019
  #5
Gear Maniac
 
M.Retra's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Touch The Universe View Post
What's the difference between the GIK acoustic panelling and their bass traps. They look like the same thing, just thicker? I've seen bass trap foam that is triangle shaped with three sides, hence more area, are these better or worse than a sheet adjoining two corners?
The spot panels, if that's what you're referring to, are thin at 1" or so. I believe they're also OC703. The 242 panels are about 3 inches thick with a small air gap behind them. The 244, now in the bass trap category, are 5.25" thick, also with an air gap. The Monster Bass Traps are almost 8" thick. I believe all the panels utilize the same acoustic fill except for the 4A and 6A panels, which may be a little more dense.

Overall, GiK is top-tier quality.
Old 21st February 2019
  #6
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If you contact GIK they will give you advice on which products to use. Alternatively you might like to head over to the acoustics forum https://www.gearslutz.com/board/stud...ing-acoustics/

In general bigger and thicker is better when it comes to bass traps/absorbers, but there is a bit more to it than that!
Old 21st February 2019
  #7
Gear Maniac
 
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Thanks guys. I ended up filling out that form myself yesterday, while also playing around with there room builder.

I sent them my room eq and photos and my budget (1000ish). I need help determining the thickness I may need for the 1st reflections. I don't want to order thicker if I need to if it'll help save money or even portability space (moving soon).I like their impression series and art panels. Cool stuff!
Old 21st February 2019
  #8
Gear Maniac
 
M.Retra's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Touch The Universe View Post
I sent them my room eq and photos and my budget (1000ish).
Not sure of your location, but just a reminder to also factor in shipping costs. Also, depending on what's needed for your REW results, you may want to up the budget a bit (less the shipping costs). If all-around bass trapping is needed, a grand isn't going to go very far. I'm saying this from recent experience as my GiK order should be arriving soon!

Since you're moving, it all may be a moot point. But budget-conscious trapping lies in their 244 panels; Very good for the money.
Old 23rd February 2019
  #9
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Checking out the 244 panels. What material are they using. It says fiberglass but I was hoping someone can confirm this? Is a deal breaker. I need to go rockwool to ensure clean air quality.
Old 23rd February 2019
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Touch The Universe View Post
Checking out the 244 panels. What material are they using. It says fiberglass but I was hoping someone can confirm this? Is a deal breaker. I need to go rockwool to ensure clean air quality.
I believe they use the knauf mineral wool... unless you have a particularly unique respiratory problem you should be fine
Old 23rd February 2019
  #11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Touch The Universe View Post
Checking out the 244 panels. What material are they using. It says fiberglass but I was hoping someone can confirm this? Is a deal breaker. I need to go rockwool to ensure clean air quality.
The panels have fabric on the back, so the insulation is isolated from the room (IIRC- I have six 244 panels).

GIK is pretty darned awesome. The products are great, and they've really diversified their offerings over the years. Like someone said, they'll give you free advice, and Glenn and others from GIK are regular contributors here on GS. Very polite contributors too!

Like someone said, check what the shipping costs are. They can be substantial as the products are not small.
Old 23rd February 2019
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Touch The Universe View Post
Checking out the 244 panels. What material are they using. It says fiberglass but I was hoping someone can confirm this? Is a deal breaker. I need to go rockwool to ensure clean air quality.
I do believe GIK uses all 3lb pcf density of Knaupf Ecose insulation in various thicknesses in all their trap designs.

YYMV

Light

Temple
Old 24th February 2019
  #13
Gear Maniac
 
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Pardon me, but I'm a bit confused. I'm seeing the term glass and wool describing the same material. I know there is fiberglass and that there is rockwool, now there is something is a glass wool, it's a bit confusing.

Is Knaupf Ecose safe to touch and or breath if exposed to skin or breathed in the air?

The site says they use both glass and wool so is it a mixture of the two?

Good news is looks like shipping is not too bad, just 45 dollars when I randomly put a few things in the basket. This is because I'm close to Atlanta, there usa showroom, presumably
Old 24th February 2019
  #14
Gear Maniac
 
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On another note, I heard back from someone at GIK. They gave me a lot of information for me to consider. Will think for a day or two and decide what I want to do and really need.

How effective would one panel 12 X 48 4" be in the corner. I've heard it best to stack bass traps from room to ceiling, but I've seen images where people put one panel in the middle between the floor and ceiling.

At this point, the bare minimum I want to go for soon is the reflection points on the side and the ceiling. Possibly 1 panel for each of the corners as a bass trap (if budget allows). This will depend if its even viable to use one panel per corner, temporarily.
Old 24th February 2019
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Touch The Universe View Post
Pardon me, but I'm a bit confused. I'm seeing the term glass and wool describing the same material. I know there is fiberglass and that there is rockwool, now there is something is a glass wool, it's a bit confusing.
Fiberglass is a trademark of Owens-Corning. Rockwool is a trademark of Rockwool.

All such products are mineral wool. Fiberglass uses silicon. Hence the name. Glass wool is a fine non-brand name. The same way gypsum board is the phrase for gyproc.

Andre
Old 24th February 2019
  #16
Gear Maniac
 
M.Retra's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Touch The Universe View Post
On another note, I heard back from someone at GIK. They gave me a lot of information for me to consider. Will think for a day or two and decide what I want to do and really need.

How effective would one panel 12 X 48 4" be in the corner. I've heard it best to stack bass traps from room to ceiling, but I've seen images where people put one panel in the middle between the floor and ceiling.

At this point, the bare minimum I want to go for soon is the reflection points on the side and the ceiling. Possibly 1 panel for each of the corners as a bass trap (if budget allows). This will depend if its even viable to use one panel per corner, temporarily.
It's all about square footage. One panel straddling the corner is better than nothing straddling the corner. Furthermore, the air gap makes it a little more efficient than flat against the wall. Traps floor-to-ceiling are a good, efficient way to add that square footage of absorption, as I previously mentioned, in areas that are relatively "hot" in a room while preserving floor/room space.

I'd stick close to what the experts mention in your discussions directly with GiK for fear your thread will turn into yet another argument of who knows what best. There are lurkers out there that like to jam their 2 cents in, not helping anyone at all.
Old 25th February 2019
  #17
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Temple of Light's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Touch The Universe View Post
On another note, I heard back from someone at GIK. They gave me a lot of information for me to consider. Will think for a day or two and decide what I want to do and really need.

How effective would one panel 12 X 48 4" be in the corner. I've heard it best to stack bass traps from room to ceiling, but I've seen images where people put one panel in the middle between the floor and ceiling.

Not as effective as "nesting" a narrower 4" thick panel behind it...See:

Chameleon NEST™ Corner Mount System Ready Acoustics, LLC - Afforadble, Durable, and Stylish Acoustic Products - Bass Traps - DIY! Solutions - Mounts - Insulation [Chameleon NEST™ Corner Mount Sys] - $609.99 : Ready Acoustics!, Hear - Sound - Better

At this point, the bare minimum I want to go for soon is the reflection points on the side and the ceiling. Possibly 1 panel for each of the corners as a bass trap (if budget allows). This will depend if its even viable to use one panel per corner, temporarily.
YYMV

Light

Temple
Old 25th February 2019
  #18
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robert82's Avatar
Can you DIY? I've done my whole room using 4 and 6 inch thick rockwool. It's cheap, and you just need to put it in frames and cover with cloth. Have not used GIK, but they are very respectable, if you have to buy ready made.
Old 25th February 2019
  #19
Gear Maniac
 
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May I ask how much each panel cost you to make? How many panels did you end up making?

GIK is going for 65 dollars for 4" 24 by 48 panels. I remember seeing 32 dollar DIY estimates. If that is about the price, it might make sense to give it a go.

I do like the art panels, but maybe I can simple order that from someplace.
Old 27th February 2019
  #20
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Bjorn Omholt's Avatar
 

RPG products can also be purchased. RPG hold many patents.
RPG Acoustical Systems - Wood, Lights, Color Solutions
Old 27th February 2019
  #21
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Me too, i have a brand : RealTraps by the great and amazing
Ethan Winer.
Old 1st March 2019
  #22
Gear Maniac
 
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After doing a bit more research, each material has its own pros and cons. As long as the fiberglass is well insulated, I think I'll be good to go with the GIK acoustic offerings. I've narrowed down my selection, now creating an assett to finance the purchase.

I'm torn between putting a single 12x48 4" in each of the 4 corners midway between floor and ceiling saving 200 dollars, or going all out for 24x48 4" (Impression series). Would it make a big enough difference?

On another note, the other day I was blasting some bass music and going around the corners. A lot of places had lots of bass, other places closer to the floor or while I was standing had still more bass. My sitting position however lacked any substantial bass. Would me treating the corners to trap the bass somehow increase the bass in my listening position. It got me thinking, so what if I have less bass in the corners. I'm not sitting there making music and listening there, so there must be some kind of interplay with different locations I should probably learn more about.

Why don't I just go around the room to find the most flat frequency response I can find, then make my music making position there, even if that means my sub facing the wall while being 2 feet off the flat on a short table?
Old 2nd March 2019
  #23
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M.Retra's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Touch The Universe View Post
I'm torn between putting a single 12x48 4" in each of the 4 corners midway between floor and ceiling saving 200 dollars, or going all out for 24x48 4" (Impression series). Would it make a big enough difference?
The Impression Series, while they are nice indeed, they're also $115 a piece for a 24x48 panel. IMO, unless you're dead-set on style and pizzazz, I'd put the budget dollars towards more surface area. The 244 panel is $74.99 each. So are you looking for form over function, or vice-versa.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Touch The Universe View Post
On another note, the other day I was blasting some bass music and going around the corners. A lot of places had lots of bass, other places closer to the floor or while I was standing had still more bass. My sitting position however lacked any substantial bass. Would me treating the corners to trap the bass somehow increase the bass in my listening position. It got me thinking, so what if I have less bass in the corners. I'm not sitting there making music and listening there, so there must be some kind of interplay with different locations I should probably learn more about.
Someone will most likely chime in with technical jargon regarding the standing wave/room mode issue(s), where the bass nulls occur at the listening position. My suggestion is to read up as much as you can tolerate regarding the various problems small rooms have and then move on. Ultimately, the more bass trapping you put into a room, the differences between the high and low points in frequency response should decrease, i.e. the nulls/peaks should lessen, but most likely will not disappear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Touch The Universe View Post
Why don't I just go around the room to find the most flat frequency response I can find, then make my music making position there, even if that means my sub facing the wall while being 2 feet off the flat on a short table?
There probably isn't anywhere in your room where the frequency response is flat. Furthermore, a sub will require some fine tuning to the best location for it, but a good start is in a corner.
Old 3rd March 2019
  #24
Gear Maniac
 
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I was overlooking the reverb component, yes flat response is good, but there is also the waterfall to contend with.

I'm still coming to grasp on some the fundamentals here. It'd be nice if someone can explain the benefit to my listening position of trapping bass in corners when I won't be chilling there making music. If I want more bass in my listening position should I try to bounce some subs off my wall? I found if I faced the subs toward my wall, I improved the bass response and solved some huge bass nulls in the spectrum. I just never read about having subs facing walls, it usually the opposition.
Old 3rd March 2019
  #25
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Don't focus only on frequency response. The frequency follows the time domain, not the other way around. For the flattest response though, finding the best position in the room is the easiest way. But you still need to address resonances and long decay in the bass for a really good result.
It will tighten up the bass, gives a feeling of much more "slam" and far better "start and stop" and actually gives one the ability to hear bass tones as oppose to a muddy result.

The best way to deal with the low frequency region is normally using a combination of pressure based traps and some porous material. But primarily sticking with the first as it steals less space, and is generally more effective below 100 Hz and without overdampening the room in the highs.
Old 3rd March 2019
  #26
Gear Maniac
 
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That brings up another thing, the Impression series looks nice, but, it half absorbs and half diffuses. I don't know if my room would prefer more absorbtion or not. Anything in the frequency spectrum or waterfall I should look at?

I can grab kit 1 for 500, or go for the nicer looking Impressions for 800. I'm leaning towards the later since my room could use the sprucing up
Old 3rd March 2019
  #27
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Whether you use absorption or diffusion depends on what acoustic principle one is following besides the needed distance to the diffused energy.

Take note though that a lot of so called diffusers on the market are simply scattering units that don't really diffuse. Diffusion is a even distribution of the sound while scattering isn't and the latter isn't necessarily good.
Old 6th March 2019
  #28
Gear Maniac
 
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Good info! Anyone know if the impression series primarily diffuses or scatters?

Is any one in particular better at reducing reverb times?

On another note, the assett I've created generated about 1000, so I think I'm good to start narrowing my selection.

4 Impression 4" 24x48 panels for bass
3 Impression 4" 24x48 panels for 1st reflections (same as bass because its only 45 dollars for twice the foam)
1 monster bass panel

Total cost, around 900, that looks good and doubles 3 of the panels than found in the Kit 1 they sell

I'll absorb first reflections on the side and one on the ceiling and trap a few of the corners and will see how it sounds and add from there if I need to

Put too much time into this as is, just going to buy some stuff
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