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Help me with my room (6dB peak at 130hz and not enough bass under 100hz)
Old 21st January 2019
  #1
Here for the gear
 

Angry Help me with my room (6dB peak at 130hz and not enough bass under 100hz)

Hi!

(pictures at end of the post)

I treated my room as best I could (dense and 12 cm thick rockwool + extra thick in the corners). My room is pretty dead sounding but still have very bad results under 200hz. I have 6dB peak at 130hz and everyhing under 90 hz is 3dB quieter.

I have plastic windows behind my speakers (the gap is 18cm).
Is it better to have windows with thick curtain behind speakers, should I move to the opposite side with the rockwool panels or put some small rockwool between speaker and window?

My Room is: 460x340x260(height) in cm.
My Speakers: Neumann kh 120 (without sub)

Here is the sonarworks result:
21.png - Google Drive


Here are some photos of my room (sorry for the mess):
IMG_20190121_160857.jpg - Google Drive

IMG_20190121_160826.jpg - Google Drive

backwall.jpg - Google Drive

backwall.jpg - Google Drive

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bx...AxNEQtdXppaGl3


Thank you very much!
Old 17th February 2019
  #2
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akebrake's Avatar
 

More testing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahdes View Post
..Is it better to have windows with thick curtain behind speakers, should I move to the opposite side with the rockwool panels or put some small rockwool between speaker and window?
Late reply...sorry for that.

To answer your questions:
A thick curtain behind speakers will not help the lack of bass.
Same goes for small rockwool panel between speaker and window.

You can always try moving one KH120 speaker to the oppsite side (close to the wall) and make a Sonar work measurement to compare with at an estimated listening point. (No desk, no chair) Is that a heavy wall?

In order to observe (and share) more acoustical details of your room:
Download REW (free) software.
I guess you already have a measurement microphone for Sonarworks.

Best
Old 18th February 2019
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akebrake View Post
Late reply...sorry for that.

To answer your questions:
A thick curtain behind speakers will not help the lack of bass.
Same goes for small rockwool panel between speaker and window.

You can always try moving one KH120 speaker to the oppsite side (close to the wall) and make a Sonar work measurement to compare with at an estimated listening point. (No desk, no chair) Is that a heavy wall?

In order to observe (and share) more acoustical details of your room:
Download REW (free) software.
I guess you already have a measurement microphone for Sonarworks.

Best
Thanks!

Curtain is there only because of the Hi end.
I did a research and many experts claims that Window behind the monitors is much better than on the rear/back wall. The window will let the lows leak out the room

I will do REW measure tomorrow and post the pics !
Old 18th February 2019
  #4
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akebrake's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahdes View Post
...I did a research and many experts claims that Window behind the monitors is much better than on the rear/back wall. The window will let the lows leak out the room...
I'll guess these experts haven't measured your room

IMHO it's better to test and find out what is causing your "lack of bass".

Cheers
Old 19th February 2019
  #5
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahdes View Post
Thanks!

Curtain is there only because of the Hi end.
I did a research and many experts claims that Window behind the monitors is much better than on the rear/back wall. The window will let the lows leak out the room

I will do REW measure tomorrow and post the pics !
The mic delivery with Arc2 has a false frequency response to avoid piracy.

Is the same thing with the mic delivery with sonarwork ?
Old 19th February 2019
  #6
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akebrake's Avatar
 

Relative or Absolute

Quote:
Originally Posted by dinococcus View Post
The mic delivery with Arc2 has a false frequency response to avoid piracy.

Is the same thing with the mic delivery with sonarwork ?
For calibrated (absolute) levels and FR that can be a problem.
Depends how picky you are...

Will work fine for comparison work (relative SPL/ FR measurements)

Like comparing one speaker at the window to the same speaker at the back wall.

With REW we get more details (like Waterfall, Filtered ETC and Wavelet) which is helpful when looking for room related issues.

Best

And you can always compare REW FR with Ordinary Sonarworks curves.
Old 19th February 2019
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akebrake View Post
I'll guess these experts haven't measured your room

IMHO it's better to test and find out what is causing your "lack of bass".

Cheers
Here is Mdata for REW and sonarworks results
I tried the measure with PSI a17 - same results of course.

I moved my speakers 63 cm from the window/front wall. (when I had them as close as possible to the window i had big dips in REW)
Put them 97 cm apart - 100 cm from the side walls
and put my sitting position cca 180 cm from the front wall/window

Is it ok to have monitors so far front the front wall? Everywhere I see- as close as possible but maybe small room and plastic window instead of wall is different ? I found that sitting 180 from the window is the best but If I set monitors as close as possible to the front wall They have to be in the corners to be in a correct triangle with my listening position.

..is it possible that I have different results with SonarWorks? It looks like everything below 100 hz is 6-7 db quieter - not very optimistic thing to look at

ROOM SIZE:470 long 263 h 340 w
Attached Thumbnails
Help me with my room (6dB peak at 130hz and not enough bass under 100hz)-sw-19.2..jpg  
Attached Files
File Type: mdat PSI 19.2..mdat (2.71 MB, 13 views)
Old 23rd February 2019
  #8
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akebrake's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahdes View Post
Here is Mdata for REW and sonarworks results
I tried the measure with PSI a17 - same results of course.
Thanks! Unfortunately it's hard to compare these REW & Sonar plots.

1: We don't know the exact smoothing used on Sonarworks.
2: Sonar Calib file makes REW look strange at the lowest freq.
2: REW was measured L+R while Sonar was L and R separate...

EDIT: May be I'm too picky... Compared curves within a couple of dB:s. Added overlay curves below. REW 1/3 Oct smoothed RED (Sketchbook)


Suggestion:
Always measure L & R speaker separately.
Chose a lower start-frequency on REW. Say 2 Hz.
Make calibrated measurements.
Make another set REW with Sonar mic calibration switched off.


I guess you have no trapping in the ceiling.
Is a large/deep ceiling cloud an option? Carpet on the floor can then be removed.

Best
Attached Thumbnails
Help me with my room (6dB peak at 130hz and not enough bass under 100hz)-sonar-vs-rew-extra-1.jpg  

Last edited by akebrake; 24th February 2019 at 11:05 AM.. Reason: Second thoughts and added pic
Old 2nd March 2019
  #9
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by akebrake View Post
Thanks! Unfortunately it's hard to compare these REW & Sonar plots.

1: We don't know the exact smoothing used on Sonarworks.
2: Sonar Calib file makes REW look strange at the lowest freq.
2: REW was measured L+R while Sonar was L and R separate...

EDIT: May be I'm too picky... Compared curves within a couple of dB:s. Added overlay curves below. REW 1/3 Oct smoothed RED (Sketchbook)


Suggestion:
Always measure L & R speaker separately.
Chose a lower start-frequency on REW. Say 2 Hz.
Make calibrated measurements.
Make another set REW with Sonar mic calibration switched off.


I guess you have no trapping in the ceiling.
Is a large/deep ceiling cloud an option? Carpet on the floor can then be removed.

Best
Hi
Thank you!
Yes I have two rockwool panels above me. 10cm/4 inches thick + air gap.
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