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UAD Live Tracking mode in ProTools - Where is the ON button?
Old 29th November 2012
  #1
Gear Head
 

UAD Live Tracking mode in ProTools - Where is the ON button?

hey guys

i recently bought a UAD2 satellite DUO for my PT setup.

just found out that because they use a generic wrapper shell that all the plugins have terrible latency.

i read online people talking about a live tracking mode that reduces the latency (and dramatically increases your cpu).

i cant find "the little red button" to turn it on anywhere??

can someone please let me know where it is?

thanks, black_wolf
Old 30th November 2012
  #2
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Joe Porto's Avatar
 

It's called Low Latency Mode and all it does is set a latency threshold so that if a plugin exceeds that latency, it is bypassed. It will not actually lower the latency of the plugins. I believe it's set in the audio preferences window. You can just leave it on, because it only works when a track is armed. It's basically just a convenient automated way to bypass high latency plugins when tracking.
Old 30th November 2012
  #3
Gear Head
 

thanks for that reply

i had a look through the setting in protools and UAD settings and couldn't find a low latency mode

there is a "low latency mode" in logic, maybe that is what you are referring to-
Optimizing Your UAD's Performance for Logic Pro - Blog - Universal Audio

i read elsewhere that there is a red button on the plugin shell down the bottom- but i cant see it anywhere on the rtas plugs.

all the plugins use up 576 samples when i load them. doesnt matter if it's a plugin that you would expect a large latency from (140 plate) or a low latency from (1176LN or SE). by comparison the waves CLA-76 (1176 clone) has "0 samples" delay- you can track with that!

obviously the wrapper is giving the plugin a huge buffer on what it really needs. surely there is a way to turn off this excessive buffer.

cheers- black_wolf
Old 30th November 2012
  #4
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Joe Porto's Avatar
 

Yes...you are right I was thinking about logic. In PT, there is a low latency monitoring mode, but that requires Avid hardware, and again, disables all plugins.

As for one accessed directly from the plugin, I just looked at my UAD and other RTAS plugins, and do not see an option.

I've never considered UAD plugins useful for tracking due to the high latency, although from what I understand, it can be done with the Apollo so maybe it's possible in a later release?
Old 30th November 2012
  #5
Lives for gear
Unwrapped

Something about your problem isn't making sense as I thought all current UA had been unwrapped ? There is a video about PT compatability on the UA site that mentions this ?

Also no offence why didn't you but the apollo duo to take advantage of the low latency and live tracking in its console gui with ua plugs abd instant recall ?

Kcat
Old 30th November 2012
  #6
Gear Head
 

hey there

i got the satellite for several reasons:

1. i didnt get the apollo because it costs a lot of money.

2. i got the satellite because it was super cheap on sale with a $500 plugin voucher.

3. with all the UA hype about "no cpu strain" i presumed the horse-power in the satellite wouldnt have had an issue with live tracking.

4. it didnt have a sticker on the box "DOESNT WORK FOR LIVE TRACKING!"

in all seriousness- live tracking is essential these days. saying its only for mixing after tracking is just a cop out. if it had a warning sticker on it about serious latency issues i would have reconsidered my purchase.

cheers, black_wolf
Old 30th November 2012
  #7
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kcatthedog View Post
Something about your problem isn't making sense as I thought all current UA had been unwrapped ? There is a video about PT compatability on the UA site that mentions this ?
from what i understand (could be wrong) they are not VST's in an RTAS wrapper anymore, but they still use the UA shell to store the plugin inside. that shell has a minimum latency of 576samples (on my PT setup anyway). the plugs are all 1.1mb in size, which wouldn't make sense if they were not in a shell.

i wanted to know if there was a way to reduce the latency of the shell to what was actually required by the plugin inside.

i could be completely wrong- but thats how it looks on my end.

cheers, black_wolf
Old 1st December 2012
  #8
Gear Head
 

it looks like its called "LiveTrack" mode

it's referred to on page 73 of the 6.2 manual
http://www.uaudio.com/media/support/..._Manual_62.pdf

unfortunately it is missing on all the plugs i try and open ;(

i have tried RTAS in PT 9 and VST in Live 8

can someone else let me know if they have the microphone icon on their plugs, and why it might be missing on my system?

cheers, black_wolf
Old 1st December 2012
  #9
Gear Head
 

looks like the answer has been added to the 6.3 manual - answer was not in the 6.2 manual (see attached image)

Note: LiveTrack Mode is available exclusively with UAD-2 PCIe devices.
When a UAD-2 FireWire device (UAD-2 Satellite or Apollo) are in use by the
system, LiveTrack Mode cannot be used.


does anyone know if livetrack mode used to work with the 6.2 software on the satellite? maybe i'll try downgrading

really disappointing- if i can record 16 channels of audio simultaneously through a firewire sound card with 0 latency, i fail to see why the UA device can't send audio down the firewire line with 0 latency.

cheers, black_wolf
Attached Images
Old 1st December 2012
  #10
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Joe Porto's Avatar
 

Hmm..I'll have another look, but I am on a PCIe Quad, and do not see an option for live mode anywhere in the plugin window.
Old 1st December 2012
  #11
Gear Head
 

i uninstalled 6.3 and installed 6.2

unfortunately the plugins didn't show up in PT9

could be because i am on mountain lion

black_wolf
Old 1st December 2012
  #12
Quote:
Originally Posted by black_wolf View Post
looks like the answer has been added to the 6.3 manual - answer was not in the 6.2 manual (see attached image)

Note: LiveTrack Mode is available exclusively with UAD-2 PCIe devices.
When a UAD-2 FireWire device (UAD-2 Satellite or Apollo) are in use by the
system, LiveTrack Mode cannot be used.


does anyone know if livetrack mode used to work with the 6.2 software on the satellite? maybe i'll try downgrading

really disappointing- if i can record 16 channels of audio simultaneously through a firewire sound card with 0 latency, i fail to see why the UA device can't send audio down the firewire line with 0 latency.

cheers, black_wolf
You can't record with zero latency, just low-ish latency.

Plugin processing needs to be sent to and from the card.

To be fair, the box doesn't say "can't cook you dinner" either - but you know it can't cos you've researched that it's not a microwave. Unfortunately, you've jumped a little before checking out the facts.
Old 1st December 2012
  #13
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
You can't record with zero latency, just low-ish latency.

Plugin processing needs to be sent to and from the card.

To be fair, the box doesn't say "can't cook you dinner" either - but you know it can't cos you've researched that it's not a microwave. Unfortunately, you've jumped a little before checking out the facts.
its fair to say i presumed that there would be latency equivalent to the time required to process the signal. ie, i would expect a compressor to be around 64 samples.

what UA have done is given ALL their plugs 512 samples latency by default, regardless of the amount needed by the processing algorithm. it seems with LiveTrack they have enabled their plugs to run at just the amount needed by the processing algorithm of the plugin, forgoing the default latency buffer of 512 samples. unfortunately they have disabled this feature on all devices except the pcie cards. my thoughts are that they could do it for the satellite boxes too, but chose not to - to play it safe. i personally think they should have given us the option to turn on livetrack with the satellite boxes too.

i did research before buying to some degree, but didnt see anywhere "all plugs have a 512 sample latency". i presumed with the off board processors that it would be better than the CPU handling the workload. turns out, getting the signal to and back from those off board processors is quite inefficient.

cheers

Last edited by black_wolf; 2nd December 2012 at 10:24 AM.. Reason: grammar
Old 10th August 2013
  #14
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krheatman's Avatar
I know this is and old thread,but everyone advertises the Satellite as Livetrack mode capable.

Here is Sweetwater-

Flexible operation modes for tracking and mixing
Using UAD-2 Satellite QUAD's LiveTrack mode, you can reduce latency on active UAD-2 plug-ins to the lowest amount possible.

I put in a support ticket to UAD.
If it doesn't do it you should get a refund.

It says right in the manual it will not work with a Satellite.
Old 12th August 2013
  #15
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krheatman's Avatar
From UAD-

Hi,

Thanks for the report.

They are incorrect. Live track is unavailable for Firewire devices, only PCIe.

This is strictly marketing speak. I will let our director of marketing know asap.

Take care.




Best Regards,



Dave Roda
Customer Support
Universal Audio


877-MY-UAUDIO (877-698-2834)
831-440-1176 (international)
Contact
Old 14th September 2015
  #16
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by black_wolf View Post
hey there

i got the satellite for several reasons:

1. i didnt get the apollo because it costs a lot of money.

2. i got the satellite because it was super cheap on sale with a $500 plugin voucher.

3. with all the UA hype about "no cpu strain" i presumed the horse-power in the satellite wouldnt have had an issue with live tracking.

4. it didnt have a sticker on the box "DOESNT WORK FOR LIVE TRACKING!"

in all seriousness- live tracking is essential these days. saying its only for mixing after tracking is just a cop out. if it had a warning sticker on it about serious latency issues i would have reconsidered my purchase.

cheers, black_wolf

Live Track Mode is not available for the satellite version. only for PCIe & I'm assuming apollo.
Old 19th April 2016
  #17
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by krheatman View Post
From UAD-

Hi,

Thanks for the report.

They are incorrect. Live track is unavailable for Firewire devices, only PCIe.

This is strictly marketing speak. I will let our director of marketing know asap.

Take care.




Best Regards,



Dave Roda
Customer Support
Universal Audio


877-MY-UAUDIO (877-698-2834)
831-440-1176 (international)
Contact

Dave, question: and apollo thunderbolt?
thanks!
Old 20th April 2016
  #18
Quote:
Originally Posted by javier fracchia View Post
Dave, question: and apollo thunderbolt?
thanks!
The whole selling point of the Apollos (all versions) is that you can use the plugins on input - both to record through or just for monitoring.

You can't do that with the DSP accelerator boxes.
Old 20th April 2016
  #19
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Joe Porto's Avatar
 

As mentioned, Apollo let's you track with plugins, and those FX will be recorded, as opposed to live mode w/ the PCIe and TB accelerators, which allow you to track the uneffected sound and monitor through FX using LIVE mode.

I'm sure there would be a way with the Apollo to split the input so that you can record the original and effected sound, or monitor the FX in real time w/out recording the effected sound.

But I can say, using the Apogee Ensemble 2 and a PCIe UAD card (in a TB expansion chassis), that using live mode allows for real time UAD FX monitoring with no noticeable latency.
Old 21st April 2016
  #20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Porto View Post
As mentioned, Apollo let's you track with plugins, and those FX will be recorded, as opposed to live mode w/ the PCIe and TB accelerators, which allow you to track the uneffected sound and monitor through FX using LIVE mode.

I'm sure there would be a way with the Apollo to split the input so that you can record the original and effected sound, or monitor the FX in real time w/out recording the effected sound.

But I can say, using the Apogee Ensemble 2 and a PCIe UAD card (in a TB expansion chassis), that using live mode allows for real time UAD FX monitoring with no noticeable latency.
If you've got an Apollo, you have the console monitoring app. That's where you insert the plugins you're using on the monitor path, and there's a rocker switch to go between record path and monitor path for plugins. Not sure you can switch on a case by case basis.
Old 21st April 2016
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
If you've got an Apollo, you have the console monitoring app. That's where you insert the plugins you're using on the monitor path, and there's a rocker switch to go between record path and monitor path for plugins. Not sure you can switch on a case by case basis.
With Console 2.0 you can, Console 1 was all or nothing(monitoring OR recording.

KA
Old 29th January 2018
  #22
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midi510's Avatar
 

Damn. I've been running live sessions with multiple guitar and bass amps, preamps for vocals, EQs, channel strips, compressors, etc. I have an Apollo Quad and two Octos, plus a quad satellite, 24 processors in all and I can only use the 4 in the Apollo for monitoring. I know I'm pushing the system, learning it's limitations, but the Apollo doesn't get too far and starts disabling plugins. I thought that I could run the sessions through Pro Tools and use live tracking and the Octos, but because I have the Apollo, I can't. I understand why I can't use the Octos for console, but it seems like I should be able to use the Octos for live monitoring. From what I'm reading, I should be able to turn the Apollo off, use my Ui24R for I/O and get live tracking. I like the idea of using the Studer preamps, but not too sure about the A/D or clock on the Soundcraft. I wouldn't think they're on par with the Apollo. I guess as long as I'm using the Apollo, the Octos are only for mixing.
Old 29th January 2018
  #23
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Joe Porto's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by midi510 View Post
Damn. I've been running live sessions with multiple guitar and bass amps, preamps for vocals, EQs, channel strips, compressors, etc. I have an Apollo Quad and two Octos, plus a quad satellite, 24 processors in all and I can only use the 4 in the Apollo for monitoring. I know I'm pushing the system, learning it's limitations, but the Apollo doesn't get too far and starts disabling plugins. I thought that I could run the sessions through Pro Tools and use live tracking and the Octos, but because I have the Apollo, I can't. I understand why I can't use the Octos for console, but it seems like I should be able to use the Octos for live monitoring. From what I'm reading, I should be able to turn the Apollo off, use my Ui24R for I/O and get live tracking. I like the idea of using the Studer preamps, but not too sure about the A/D or clock on the Soundcraft. I wouldn't think they're on par with the Apollo. I guess as long as I'm using the Apollo, the Octos are only for mixing.
I've since switched my Ensemble TB for an Apollo 8P and 16MKII. I'm using an analog console, so generally monitor direct through that, but sometimes use UAD plugins for monitoring and tracking.

One of the problems with Apollo is that they really designed it only for monitoring through it's own console. This indeed gives imperceptible latency. But the INPUT latency of the Apollo when monitoring through the DAW is high. Something like 6ms, compared to 1.4ms with the Ensemble. The output latency is low, so VIs are not a problem, but it's not ideal as far as round trip latency when monitoring audio through the DAW due to the additional input latency compared to other TB interfaces.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #24
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
You can't record with zero latency, just low-ish latency.

Plugin processing needs to be sent to and from the card.

To be fair, the box doesn't say "can't cook you dinner" either - but you know it can't cos you've researched that it's not a microwave. Unfortunately, you've jumped a little before checking out the facts.
Haha!! No disrespect to op but that was golden the microwave comment i love it????????
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