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PT 10 HDX System vs TDM PT 10 with same converters-- any sound difference?
Old 19th May 2013
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peachy View Post
I just upgraded my HD2 cards to HDX but kept the same converters (Apogees), and I always monitor through the DAC of my Avocet anyway, so the only thing that has changed in my system is the mix engine. I haven't done null tests etc but to my ears the HDX mix engine sounds better, after loading up the same sessions that I was previously working on in HD. Clearer, more depth. It's not "in your face" night and day difference, but it is nicer to my ears.


You're hearing the same 32 bit float engine that has been in ALL non TDM PT systems since PT9 was released.

PT native, PTHD Native, and HDX all use the EXACT same mix engine now.
Old 19th May 2013
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drew View Post
You're hearing the same 32 bit float engine that has been in ALL non TDM PT systems since PT9 was released.

PT native, PTHD Native, and HDX all use the EXACT same mix engine now.
Which could either mean that non-HD has sounded better than HD until HDX, or it could mean that you think Peachy is imagining things.

FWIW, I also experienced the mix engine as sounding better (more depth and definition - slightly) after moving from HD3 to HDX. I have not tried to prove or disprove it either, FWIW.
Old 19th May 2013
  #33
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I only bought an LE system in 1999 after my tests showed that it sounded as good or better than TDM using better converters than any of digidesign's.
Old 20th May 2013
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkSky Media View Post
Which could either mean that non-HD has sounded better than HD until HDX,
Bingo.
Old 20th May 2013
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drew View Post
Bingo.
Interesting. Thanks for clarifying.
Old 20th May 2013
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drew View Post
You're hearing the same 32 bit float engine that has been in ALL non TDM PT systems since PT9 was released.

PT native, PTHD Native, and HDX all use the EXACT same mix engine now.
Yes exactly, the 32 bit float mix engine sounds better to my ears than the 48 bit fixed. I think another factor may be the 24 bit truncation and dithering of TDM plugins in the chain, I suspect that this makes a discernible difference, especially after applying mastering and bringing up the levels on the stereo bus.
Old 20th May 2013
  #37
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Guys, it's actually been 64 bit floating point mixing, with 32 bit processing, since PT9.
Old 20th May 2013
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nst7 View Post
Guys, it's actually been 64 bit floating point mixing, with 32 bit processing, since PT9.
Thanks, I stand corrected!
Anyway it sounds better.
Old 20th May 2013
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nst7 View Post
Guys, it's actually been 64 bit floating point mixing, with 32 bit processing, since PT9.
I believe it has been for a lot longer than that. They only started advertising it as a feature in PT9.
Old 9th May 2019
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
I only bought an LE system in 1999 after my tests showed that it sounded as good or better than TDM using better converters than any of digidesign's.
In 2012, our brand new 8-core Mac Pro suddenly stopped (as well, the HD2 Accel / PT HD 8 rig), while I was in the middle of an album mixing. The MOBO unexpectedly died.

Then I just connected the usb hard drive to a secondary setup we had - an iMac with a Digi002 and PT LE 8 - same plugins installed... and continued to work.

So, I could not resist to redo the same print I've just done in the HD Accel setup. (Even because I had to measure how much I would 'lost' in sound quality for continuing the mixing in that 'sh*tty' configuration).

As many here I don't 'bounce to disk' - but using a Master Bus and printing a stereo track.

I'm sure it's not relevant anymore, being in 2019, but...

Doing the null test... I had a [frustrating?] total silence.
Actually, some ridiculous minor 'tsc' happened, kinda 4 ou 5 during all the track.

So, the word is frustrating, 'cause it was a Core2Duo iMac with a Digi002 and PT LE... versus a top-of-line 8-Core/16-Threads Mac Pro with a brand new HD2 Accel. Where I live, it was a $3.500,00 setup vs a $60.000,00 setup.
(basically US$2.000,00 vs US$35.000,00 in 2012).

First, the iMac was able to run like a champ all those plugins.

Second, all that '48-bit fixed point precision advantages' talk, that I innocently believed... I felt myself like an idiot... for, with a $3.500,00 setup, being able to have the same sound as the $60.000,00 setup.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #41
M2E
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nst7 View Post
Guys, it's actually been 64 bit floating point mixing, with 32 bit processing, since PT9.
Actually since 6.4.1 to be exact. Just never marketed.
That's when Digidesign's Pro Tools introduced RTAS and the 32bit double precision mixer.

Hope this clears up everything...

Marc
Old 4 weeks ago
  #42
M2E
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peachy View Post
Yes exactly, the 32 bit float mix engine sounds better to my ears than the 48 bit fixed. I think another factor may be the 24 bit truncation and dithering of TDM plugins in the chain, I suspect that this makes a discernible difference, especially after applying mastering and bringing up the levels on the stereo bus.
To be honest, I still use Pro Tools 10HD and I have 11HD Native but that's not using the same Avid 192 i/o.

I'm going to do a drum mix using both all inside the box to see if there is any difference. I'll be using the same plugins etc. I'll also try PT11HD 32 bit just for giggles and kicks.

Now, as for as the truth about Pro Tools 10HD, it's 48bit with a 56bit mantissa.
Meaning the Master fader is 56bit. That's 336db of dynamic range.
64bit dynamic range is 385db. Not much difference.

Thanks, Marc
Old 3 weeks ago
  #43
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I just invested in a backup system to my current Pro Tools 10 HD TDM rig meaning another Mac Pro 2010 (Actually a firmware upgraded 2009) with HD3
I am using the "newer" AVID HD I/O 8x8x8 as my master clock and also a couple of 192s which mostly receiving audio through ADAT connections from UA converters, 4-710d and Apollo 8X (connected to a Macbook Pro).
I was going from Logic Pro 9 7 years ago to Pro Tools HD and going with the TDM engine was an audible upgrade for me.
It is an experience of everything sounding "tighter" in a good way. It may be "ear-ghosts" but I have no wish to go back to native for better sound, only thing would be to be able to use newer Mac OS systems
The same with TDM plugins vs Native plugins...I don´t know but TDM versions sound better as well...I may like the vintage digital sound
So combining TDM plugins with UAD plugins is a perfect combo for me. No reason to jump boat for another couple of years
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