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Avid Pro Tools Tech Preview (version 10?) IBC 2011...
Old 13th September 2011
  #121
kdm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lpmike75 View Post
I have used Sonar for several years and just ordered my first PT this week (PT9). I work with alot of midi with full orchestral mock ups so I was never insterested in PT due to its 32 bit limitation. My question with PT 10 and loading the project into RAM, this seems like people like me will need to have even more RAM, as our samples already use lots of RAM.
There isn't a lot of info on the Ram caching concept yet, but as I interpret the presentation, it is specifically for audio clips that are streamed from disk. Time will tell though if Avid has included VIs as well - that would also limit how much audio you can cache into Ram.

Sample libraries are typically loaded within the app's address space (other than Kontakt's memory server), but as a separate memory segment, so really what we need there is a 64-bit version of PT. The solution around this with PT9 is VEPro or Bidule running outside of PT hosting ram-hungry sample libraries (both are 64-bit). Works beautifully.
Old 13th September 2011
  #122
Old 15th September 2011
  #123
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kdm View Post
There isn't a lot of info on the Ram caching concept yet, but as I interpret the presentation, it is specifically for audio clips that are streamed from disk. Time will tell though if Avid has included VIs as well - that would also limit how much audio you can cache into Ram.

Sample libraries are typically loaded within the app's address space (other than Kontakt's memory server), but as a separate memory segment, so really what we need there is a 64-bit version of PT. The solution around this with PT9 is VEPro or Bidule running outside of PT hosting ram-hungry sample libraries (both are 64-bit). Works beautifully.
I really hope that loading session audio into RAM is optional, otherwise PT going 64bit will be utterly pointless for some. Imagine if I had a 7GB session which additionally uses 4GB of RAM and my computer has 8GB of RAM. The 4-5GB that 64bit PT would've freed up would now be being used for session audio.

Fingers crossed it doesn't work like this, loading more virtual instrument samples has been something many people have been looking forward to, and personally, it's a reason I've moved to Logic for composition.
Old 15th September 2011
  #124
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SKyflash34's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashm View Post
I really hope that loading session audio into RAM is optional, otherwise PT going 64bit will be utterly pointless for some. Imagine if I had a 7GB session which additionally uses 4GB of RAM and my computer has 8GB of RAM. The 4-5GB that 64bit PT would've freed up would now be being used for session audio.

Fingers crossed it doesn't work like this, loading more virtual instrument samples has been something many people have been looking forward to, and personally, it's a reason I've moved to Logic for composition.
I agree. I'm wondering if this will initially be an HD feature. They indicate that the premise
is for working with networked storage(Isis 5000). I can't see everyone being able to take advantage
of this at least for a while. Sure someday when we all can afford to have 32 gig of RAM on our computers
it will trickle down. If they offer it at least you should have the option to turn it off, or set the amount
of memory it occupies.
Old 16th September 2011
  #125
kdp
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WOW!! Protools is almost catching up with all the other DAWs!!
Old 17th September 2011
  #126
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KBOY's Avatar
 

I am finding 24 gb of ram to be had for about 200 bucks. Granted this is for DDR3 1600 ram but still..

If you can't afford that, then I'm not quite sure how you afford PT. Unless of course you are upgrading when you buy your mac. Which should never be done unless you got buckets of money to burn. Because the stuff is crazily over priced.

As far as catching up? Who cares. All I know is I started almost 20 years ago on Cakewalk pro audio. Moved to cubase VST for a few years. Then Logic for about 2 years. Had a mac running DP for about a year. Then I found Nuendo and used it for around 12 years.

I personally find the work flow in PT to be heads and tails above any other DAW out there. And the fact that they are moving to clip based gain, real time fades, and clips that you can see when you move them is exciting. I do miss that about Nuendo.

I'm pretty stoked about where they are heading.

And on the subject of offline bouncing. Yes, I would love to have the option for smaller bounces. But I use UAD cards. and Nuendos offline bounces sometimes took double the amount of time it would have taken to real time bounce some mixes.

I also had MANY glitches in bounced mixes. I would hardly ever review the mixes back then.. This forces me too, which I think is better for the client. Especially when a glitch was not caught and the album when to replication.

Old 17th September 2011
  #127
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tamasdragon's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kdp View Post
WOW!! Protools is almost catching up with all the other DAWs!!
Cathing up really?
Although this is not a pissing contest: yes, pro tools lacks some features but! have many other which you can hardly find anywhere else.
It is too early morning for me, but just skim through the automation capabilities, only nuendo comes close, no other daw.
How about many years of pt was the only which had beatdetective type thingy?
How about playlists?
How about many years with import session data? (no more have this)
etc.

We (who use) all know that pro tools is not perfect. But still, it is the choice of the vast majority of pros out there with reason! Stability, feature set, support just a few highlights of the truth.

Avid has changed for the better. Among all the flaming pissing contest, we just try to be happy about it. heh
Old 17th September 2011
  #128
Gear Maniac
 

I just learn from somewhere RTAS = RealTimeAudioSuite . I guess Protools will never do offline rendering.
Old 17th September 2011
  #129
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hobson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kongwee View Post
I just learn from somewhere RTAS = RealTimeAudioSuite . I guess Protools will never do offline rendering.
^^ THIS!! I oft wonder why people who yearn for offline bounces don't understand this fundamental fact of the programs design.
Old 17th September 2011
  #130
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hobson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kongwee View Post
I just learn from somewhere RTAS = RealTimeAudioSuite . I guess Protools will never do offline rendering.

^^ THIS!! I oft wonder why people who yearn for offline bounces don't understand this fundamental fact of the programs design.
Old 17th September 2011
  #131
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mykhal c's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by hobson View Post
^^ THIS!! I oft wonder why people who yearn for offline bounces don't understand this fundamental fact of the programs design.
'cause the words 'real time' are not associated with any other DAW...thus users constantly omit this from their thinkin'.
Old 17th September 2011
  #132
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makinghits's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by hobson View Post
^^ THIS!! I oft wonder why people who yearn for offline bounces don't understand this fundamental fact of the programs design.
^^ THIS!! I often wonder why some people can't see the fundamental benefit of freezing tracks or offline bounces. If I want to commit 20 instrument tracks to audio, I don't want to have to sit here and listen to all 20 of them in real time! It's common sense, get with the times!
Old 17th September 2011
  #133
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That is a very literal interpretation of RTAS, in reality it's just an extension of AS (audiosuite) which is only offline. RTAS was the name given to plugins that could work in realtime. But that doesn't mean that they couldn't work offline.
Old 17th September 2011
  #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mykhal c View Post
'cause the words 'real time' are not associated with any other DAW...thus users constantly omit this from their thinkin'.
Sure they are "associated" with all other native hosts. Every modern host can also print, render, bounce in "real time". You have to do that if you use hardware inserts, or you can do it if you "choose" to. The only real difference is that PT only has the singular real time option... as the only option... for everything.

So many straw man positions in this thread related to this single function... it's a bit hard to fathom. People here are actually arguing for the omission of a functional option as if it (the omission itself) is actually a feature, and as if other products who all also have the real time option are worse off somehow because they have the offline option along with the real time option.

If you personally want to do real time renders for everything... you can do that in Samp, Cubase, Sonar, Studio One, DP, Logic, Reaper, whatever... they all do it. It's your choice. I've never seen a pro DAW that doesn't do it... allow real time prints.

PT is the only one I know of that doesn't do offline... which is the only point. Not what someone thinks is the best option to use in any particular case (print anyway you prefer, who cares?) ... the only point is that the offline option should exist to use when it may be beneficial. If you don't think it's ever beneficial... thousands would disagree.

The implication here is (seems to be?) that all of those other applications and their users are using (have been for years using) a function that's just completely useless in pro audio... no PT user could possibly benefit from it... which is a defensive reaction, not a logical reaction.

And which (imo) sounds a little bit silly... especially if PT Native is trying to take on Logic and Cubase in electronic music production... as it seems they are.

So maybe take off the "Defender of the Realm" helmets for a second, it's ok. There is a lot in PT I'd like to see in my workstation of choice and I don't typically get defensive about it being missing there... because I want it there ... and I recognize that having it (like PT's automation) would be beneficial to me.
Old 23rd September 2011
  #135
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ritelec's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
my DAW has been well ahead of PT's curve for years, delivering pretty much all the features above, as I understand them, by the middle of the last decade.
I started out a few yrs back setting up with PT (cause it's what the pro's use)......I still use it but work with Logic mainly.
I understand everybody's got to make a buck, but it amazes me how they (avid) keep banging their loyal costumers for everything.

I'm on a 003 le system which works well for me. I always research HD and HD native gear thinking someday I may grow into it..... but after seeing whats been going on for a few yrs..I now say.....Bunk that......They have enough of my money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by whitecat View Post
Will we get this in version 9 or will we have to wait for 10
You won't "get" anything, unless you come up with more mulla.......It's the avid way.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Dot. View Post
is it some new update? or what exactly is it?
mo money in avid coffers.
Old 25th September 2011
  #136
Here for the gear
 

Any mention of including Input Monitoring in 10?
Old 26th September 2011
  #137
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Quantum7's Avatar
Being forced to do real-time bounces is probably one of the top reasons I haven't ditched Cubase for Pro Tools. I've done literally thousands of bounces in the past many years and have only had an error 2 or 3 times, which was due to a certain bug-filled vsti.... which will remain nameless. I've recorded at quite a few studios that used PT and in my experiences a majority of the recording engineers told me they were annoyed at times in not having an option for offline bouncing.
Old 26th September 2011
  #138
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ritelec's Avatar
 

Not sticking up for PT.


But with all the rewind and start again from beginning to end when working on a song.....what's one more time for a bounce?

And it does give you that last time for listening when bouncing.

I have stopped the BNC on several occasions because I didn't like, or caught something.

Again..not sticking up for PT.

But as in LP. An option for real time or off line bnc would be nice.
Old 26th September 2011
  #139
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cebolao's Avatar
 

i'm not a dsp engineer, only the many-years-protools-user, but as far as i understand the nature of PTHD - it is impossible to make the TDM plugins work offline (not real time). it is possible with RTAS (and VST, AU) plugins - it's just code for your CPU, that can run as fast as the CPU allows, but TDM plugins are run on DSP chips, and that's a different story.

of course avid could make the offline bounce available in PT LE or PT NATIVE (there are only RTAS plugins there, no TDM), but they will NOT do it - because that would make these versions "better" than the most expensive PTHD.




about doing small changes in the mix - i never use the bounce function, always print the mix on separate track. then, when i change one place in a 2 hours long movie mix, i use DESTRUCTIVE RECORDING. no need to listen to the whole mix (that would be crazy!). only the fixed place.
Old 26th September 2011
  #140
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ritelec's Avatar
 

Thank you cebolao!


Quote:
Originally Posted by cebolao View Post
of course avid could make the offline bounce available in PT LE or PT NATIVE (there are only RTAS plugins there, no TDM), but they will NOT do it - because that would make these versions "better" than the most expensive PTHD.

Thank you Digi............I mean Avid!
Old 26th September 2011
  #141
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lobsterinn's Avatar
Hmm...the RAM thing seems interesting if it really improves performance. Other than that...meh.

I want (VERY BADLY) to be able to "freeze" my processing on tracks, a la Logic. This would essentially end CPU-usage concerns during mixing.
Old 26th September 2011
  #142
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ritelec's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lobsterinn View Post
I want (VERY BADLY) to be able to "freeze" my processing on tracks, a la Logic. This would essentially end CPU-usage concerns during mixing.
Nice suggestion
Old 26th September 2011
  #143
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cebolao's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lobsterinn View Post

I want (VERY BADLY) to be able to "freeze" my processing on tracks, a la Logic. This would essentially end CPU-usage concerns during mixing.

i'm afraid that again it is not possible with TDM plugins (it would require offline processing), so it will not be possible in PT (see my previous post)

it seems that what used to be PT's strong point few years ago (TDM DSP processing) is it's weak point today
Old 27th September 2011
  #144
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bicasaur's Avatar
The thing I'm probably most excited about is seing the waveforms during drag. Hallelujah! Clip volume is gonna be great too...

The stuff I hope to see most from PT is all in how they deal with midi. I've wished for years that midi notes would appear in the edit track as a region block (a la cubase) for easier copying/rearranging. Maybe with the piano roll as a drop-down track.

The other thing that would be cool is midi busses for routing. I hate only being able to select one destination/source. Maybe that's what you guys were talking about with routing in reaper?
Old 27th September 2011
  #145
Gear Addict
 
ckreon's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bicasaur View Post
The stuff I hope to see most from PT is all in how they deal with midi. I've wished for years that midi notes would appear in the edit track as a region block (a la cubase) for easier copying/rearranging. Maybe with the piano roll as a drop-down track.

The other thing that would be cool is midi busses for routing. I hate only being able to select one destination/source. Maybe that's what you guys were talking about with routing in reaper?
I'm not sure what version of PT you're using, but MIDI regions have been around at least since version 8, if not 7.4 (didn't do much MIDI work back in those days...).

You can also bus midi just like you can any audio track - including sending to multiple busses.

Am I misunderstanding what you're asking for?
Old 4th October 2011
  #146
Gear Head
 
fluxburn's Avatar
 

Wow you posted some video for Avid's sales dude talking about features? Sorry man, that doesn't do it for me. Those cats only can answer black and white technical questions and that's it.
Old 5th October 2011
  #147
Here for the gear
 

Listening to bounces

Wouldn't it be more thorough to listen to the bounced file instead of just listening to playback?
Old 5th October 2011
  #148
Gear Addict
RTAS

Quote:
Originally Posted by kongwee View Post
I just learn from somewhere RTAS = RealTimeAudioSuite . I guess Protools will never do offline rendering.
RTAS is just a name, they called them Real Time yeah, but they could have called them SDSOLAS (Suppah Duppah Speed of light Audio Suite), and that wouldn't meant that you needed to bounce at the speed of light.

TDM plugins, that's the problem and it would be pretty strange that Avid gave a nice feature to home studio users and told "Pro" users that they can't do it.
Old 6th October 2011
  #149
For the ram thing, do you guys think it will remove audio from the ram as you delete it from your session? You know, you highlight, or click the audio you don't want and hit delete..though its still stored in your session, would it still be stored in ram? It would be kind of asinine of them NOT to remove it from, I have sessions that end up being 5-7 gbs in size, then after removing the unused audio, it goes down to 1 or 2 gbs. So it would be absolutely stupid of them NOT to remove the unused audio regions.

They better have frozen tracks also!!!
Old 6th October 2011
  #150
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weezul's Avatar
as a longtime Pro Tools user (I'm just too slow in any other DAW to realistically use anything else now) I am only positive about these announcements. Better late than never
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