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Any way to automatically shift recorded audio to compensate for latency in PT?
Old 31st August 2019
  #1
Gear Nut
 

Any way to automatically shift recorded audio to compensate for latency in PT?

So I realized lately that audio I record is coming up late on the grid and I am trying to figure out a solution...

My situation is a typical vocal recording setup with some stems for music. The vocal track being recorded to has a little bit of latency and the music stuff also has plugins on it and maybe some mastering effects.

My vocal chain has extremely low latency so it is not a problem but the music stuff has more latency. The result is that somebody singing along to the latency-delayed music will be printing audio that is late on the grid (but on time to what they are hearing from the delayed music)

Using delay compensation doesn't make a difference. Well, it does if the plugins causing latency are on the actual track but for this situation lets assume no plugins/extremely low latency plugins on the track being recorded.

I have tried a lot of testing by making a setup that is just a click track with an insanely big latency inducing plugin on it, and a track that is recording this click track from my speakers. Nothing I try can get it to line up...

However I realize that if everything I recorded would just automatically slide to the left a certain amount of samples that I tell it, then I could essentially make it line up absolutely perfectly and track vocals on a beat with all kinds of mastering plugins on it and have the singer hear themselves with no latency and have the recorded audio be perfectly on grid. Does anybody know of any way to do this? Or any other solution that I am overlooking?
Old 31st August 2019
  #2
Gear Addict
 
Poopypants's Avatar
 

Bounce the pre recorded stuff with the plug ins down to to one WAV file. Open that up in a new session. Record on that session. Import your parts into the original session when done.

Sometimes, with certain clients, I get asked to add new parts to a mix that I thought was done. This is how I deal with it. It's also important to make sure that you bounce to a WAV. MP3's add a few milliseconds at the top for reasons I don't know or understand.

As always, there are probably people here who know more than I do who may have other/better suggestions. This is pretty easy to do, though.
Old 31st August 2019
  #3
Something is going wrong with latency compensation, because I do this all the time with no issues.

Have you got plugins on master faders? If so, they’re not being compensated. Create an six track, call that your master fader and put the plugins there.

If delay comp was working correctly, it’s compensate for singing along to “latent” tracks.
Old 31st August 2019
  #4
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
Something is going wrong with latency compensation, because I do this all the time with no issues.

Have you got plugins on master faders? If so, they’re not being compensated. Create an six track, call that your master fader and put the plugins there.

If delay comp was working correctly, it’s compensate for singing along to “latent” tracks.
So I tested this again and you are right, I got the recorded audio to line up compared to having no latency inducing plugin on the music track (my fault was using waves znoise initially, which seems to report latency wrong or something because every other plugin works as intended)

BUT it is still late, just a small consistent amount. If I could just shift all my recorded clips to the left a little bit the exact same amount then I would be right on the money. I included a screenshot to show what I mean



the exported audio track is me offline bouncing the click track and importing it back into the session for reference

the recorded audio track is me playing the click track out of the speakers and recording it

as you can see it is late the exact same small amount every time
Old 1st September 2019
  #5
If it’s being played out of the speakers, then recorded, you’re inducing a small “latency” anyway - due to distance of mic from speakers.

A better test would be doing a loop back - line out to line in, no speakers or air involved.

Where is the grid? Can you show that?

I don’t know why you’d be running a noise reduction plug in real time either, esp on a full bandwidth music track - not sure what you’re trying to achieve with that?

Is delay comp showing “dly” as red or green?
Old 1st September 2019
  #6
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
If it’s being played out of the speakers, then recorded, you’re inducing a small “latency” anyway - due to distance of mic from speakers.

A better test would be doing a loop back - line out to line in, no speakers or air involved.

Where is the grid? Can you show that?

I don’t know why you’d be running a noise reduction plug in real time either, esp on a full bandwidth music track - not sure what you’re trying to achieve with that?

Is delay comp showing “dly” as red or green?
I was using Znoise as a test plugin because it has the most latency of any plugin I know, 32702 samples

with my setup shown in the screenshot every track has 0 samples of delay because there is nothing on any of them

Also I recorded it straight from my macbook speakers into the mic so it should be 1ms of latency or less from the travel time through air but the measured latency from my exported vs recorded audio is 7ms. Obviously this is extremely small, and would not be an issue... but it would be nice to know that what I'm recording is locked in 100% to where it should be.
Old 1st September 2019
  #7
Quote:
Originally Posted by carlosdanger View Post
I was using Znoise as a test plugin because it has the most latency of any plugin I know, 32702 samples

with my setup shown in the screenshot every track has 0 samples of delay because there is nothing on any of them

Also I recorded it straight from my macbook speakers into the mic so it should be 1ms of latency or less from the travel time through air but the measured latency from my exported vs recorded audio is 7ms. Obviously this is extremely small, and would not be an issue... but it would be nice to know that what I'm recording is locked in 100% to where it should be.
I see the grid now so scratch that request, but you haven’t answered my other points! Please answer the one about delay comp (or screen grab including the top of the screen).

Also - what is the throughput latency - ie how far is the recorded click delayed, in samples?

The point about proper loopback is that it eliminates variables - the only way to get to the bottom of an issue. Proper fault finding is becoming a dying art it seems!
Old 1st September 2019
  #8
Gear Nut
 

I don't see anything here about what system you're on, hardware specifics, interface, version numbers, etc? All important information. 7msec latency is significant and is not normal.
Old 2nd September 2019
  #9
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
Please answer the one about delay comp (or screen grab including the top of the screen).

Also - what is the throughput latency - ie how far is the recorded click delayed, in samples?


Quote:
Originally Posted by richbreen View Post
I don't see anything here about what system you're on, hardware specifics, interface, version numbers, etc? All important information. 7msec latency is significant and is not normal.



Dly is green and all the tracks have 0 ms of delay and as you can see here the delay is about 7ms measured by the selection tool

Im on a 2013 macbook pro with os 10.14.4 on pro tools 2019.5.0 using pro tools aggregate IO recording straight from my macbook speakers to macbook microphone. Maybe something to do with how pro tools interprets the macbook hardware latency?
Old 2nd September 2019
  #10
Quote:
Originally Posted by carlosdanger View Post


Dly is green and all the tracks have 0 ms of delay and as you can see here the delay is about 7ms measured by the selection tool

Im on a 2013 macbook pro with os 10.14.4 on pro tools 2019.5.0 using pro tools aggregate IO recording straight from my macbook speakers to macbook microphone. Maybe something to do with how pro tools interprets the macbook hardware latency?
Maybe.

You describe this as “a typical vocal recording setup” but it’s not really. How do you actually record vocals? What interface?

Using the aggregate driver and this kind of bodged loopback test isn’t the way to fix anything.

Do a proper loopback test using your audio interface. If you haven’t got one, that’s the first step to solving issues!

One more check - have you got a master fader in the session, and if so is there any plugins on it? Have you removed all plugins for these “tests”?
Old 2nd September 2019
  #11
Gear Nut
 

Yeah, while I don't know for sure (since I pretty much only use HDX rigs), I suspect that using an aggregated I/O like this is the problem. With a proper interface correctly installed you should be able to do much better.
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