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PT Low Latency Monitoring with Antelope Orion 32
Old 4 weeks ago
  #1
PT Low Latency Monitoring with Antelope Orion 32

Has anyone managed to get the 'Low Latency Monitoring' function in Pro Tools to work with an Antelope Orion??! It just cuts the audio monitoring out for me, not sure if they're compatible (which is a total disaster). Any ideas?!?!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2
Sure it can and latency is not sound card dependent. Latency is effected by your PC and all its innards, like the MOBO type and processor speed.

Its ASIO latency is documented at a round-trip latency of 7.82ms, and it reduces to 6.13ms in 96kHz, That is very low for round-trip latency.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #3
Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ Mastering View Post
Sure it can and latency is not sound card dependent. Latency is effected by your PC and all its innards, like the MOBO type and processor speed.

Its ASIO latency is documented at a round-trip latency of 7.82ms, and it reduces to 6.13ms in 96kHz, That is very low for round-trip latency.
Thanks for the reply. The LLM function in Pro Tools is a bit different though, it sends the input direct to the output so it doesn't come through the PT system thus reducing any software latency (like turning off all inserts ont he channel etc. It's real neat but not working with my system!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FirstLoveStudio View Post
Thanks for the reply. The LLM function in Pro Tools is a bit different though, it sends the input direct to the output so it doesn't come through the PT system thus reducing any software latency (like turning off all inserts ont he channel etc. It's real neat but not working with my system!
I am pretty sure low latency monitoring in pro tools will not work with an Antelope Orion, but if you run it the lowest buffer setting you should get pretty low latency, especially if you have an Orion with thunderbolt.............
Old 4 weeks ago
  #5
Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ Mastering View Post
Sure it can and latency is not sound card dependent. Latency is effected by your PC and all its innards, like the MOBO type and processor speed.

Its ASIO latency is documented at a round-trip latency of 7.82ms, and it reduces to 6.13ms in 96kHz, That is very low for round-trip latency.
This is all incorrect. LLM is 100% hw dependent as it makes use of an FPGA in the avid hw. So unfortunately, it is unlikely the op’s third party hw will work correctly in pt’s LLM mode.

Additionally, DACs have a significant impact on latency, which is a wholly separate issue from the pc and its innards.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #6
Quote:
This is all incorrect.
YOU ARE INCORRECT MY FRIEND!
If you do not know that the PC you are using does not have any effects on latency, try using a PC made 10 years ago with a crappy processor

From SOS on the Orion: I dont think they are wrong, i think you are wrong. ill trust them over you..
Interface Drivers & Latency
Installing the ASIO driver and control panel on my Windows 7 64-bit test system was straightforward, and the Orion 32 performed flawlessly throughout the review period. At 44.1kHz, and with the minimum latency streaming mode selected (64 samples in this case), CEntrance ASIO latency tests revealed reliable analogue round-trip latency of 7.82ms through Reaper, reducing to 6.13ms at 96kHz, and these measurements were confirmed externally using an Audio Precision Analyser. It's worth mentioning that Antelope claim that lower latency is possible with other DAWs. Finally, I noticed that the generic WDM drivers were also available as an option in Reaper, which may open up the possibility of recording to an Android device, as well as the officially supported Windows, OS X and iOS systems.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #7
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skybluerental's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ Mastering View Post
YOU ARE INCORRECT MY FRIEND!
If you do not know that the PC you are using does not have any effects on latency, try using a PC made 10 years ago with a crappy processor

From SOS on the Orion: I dont think they are wrong, i think you are wrong. ill trust them over you..
Interface Drivers & Latency
Installing the ASIO driver and control panel on my Windows 7 64-bit test system was straightforward, and the Orion 32 performed flawlessly throughout the review period. At 44.1kHz, and with the minimum latency streaming mode selected (64 samples in this case), CEntrance ASIO latency tests revealed reliable analogue round-trip latency of 7.82ms through Reaper, reducing to 6.13ms at 96kHz, and these measurements were confirmed externally using an Audio Precision Analyser. It's worth mentioning that Antelope claim that lower latency is possible with other DAWs. Finally, I noticed that the generic WDM drivers were also available as an option in Reaper, which may open up the possibility of recording to an Android device, as well as the officially supported Windows, OS X and iOS systems.
Nowhere in this SOS quote does it claim that Avid's low latency monitoring will work with an Antelope Orion.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #8
Quote:
Nowhere in this SOS quote does it claim that Avid's low latency monitoring will work with an Antelope Orion.
Have a nice read , especially the 2nd one. Its the test for pro tools and it came out great!!
https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/antelope-audio-orion-32

https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/pro...acking-session
Old 4 weeks ago
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FirstLoveStudio View Post
Has anyone managed to get the 'Low Latency Monitoring' function in Pro Tools to work with an Antelope Orion??! It just cuts the audio monitoring out for me, not sure if they're compatible (which is a total disaster). Any ideas?!?!
I don't know what the others are going on about... they are conflating different issues.
Pro Tools LLM is about using the FPGA or other direct routing in the hardware interface to bypass Pro Tools DAW/computer completely while tracking. So CJ doesn't get that. This has nothing to do with buffers, etc. CJ may not be familiar with Pro Tools at all but LLM is just rebranding to offload direct routing to the hardware to avoid the computer. Used to be called "zero latency monitoring" by many audio interface makers.

And Pro Tools LLM will work with third party hardware (in fact, almost exclusively third party other than HDn since HDX doesn't use this.) The hardware just has to have it's own internal routing system. LLM just kills the audio out from Pro Tools so there isn't a duplicate signal (delayed) coming through.

As for the OP issue, yes, that's exactly what it does. It cuts audio monitoring. You'd have to set up separate routing from Antelope's software to route in to out. LLM doesn't take care of that for you -- it expects the user to know how to route that for their specific hardware. For Antelope, you could set up a routing preset specific for LLM when you turn it on.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #10
Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ Mastering View Post
YOU ARE INCORRECT MY FRIEND!
If you do not know that the PC you are using does not have any effects on latency, try using a PC made 10 years ago with a crappy processor

From SOS on the Orion: I dont think they are wrong, i think you are wrong. ill trust them over you..
Interface Drivers & Latency
Installing the ASIO driver and control panel on my Windows 7 64-bit test system was straightforward, and the Orion 32 performed flawlessly throughout the review period. At 44.1kHz, and with the minimum latency streaming mode selected (64 samples in this case), CEntrance ASIO latency tests revealed reliable analogue round-trip latency of 7.82ms through Reaper, reducing to 6.13ms at 96kHz, and these measurements were confirmed externally using an Audio Precision Analyser. It's worth mentioning that Antelope claim that lower latency is possible with other DAWs. Finally, I noticed that the generic WDM drivers were also available as an option in Reaper, which may open up the possibility of recording to an Android device, as well as the officially supported Windows, OS X and iOS systems.
Low latency monitoring paths are not buffer dependent, nor should they be cpu dependent, since it all happens pre computer.

In theory at least, an interface with a software cue monitor such as an Apollo, apogee duet or whatever should behave exactly the same if it’s on a 10yo pc or a brand new one.

Assuming compatibility of course.

Please let’s try to avoid the whole “no YOU are wrong” attitude....and try to understand the original issue. If you’ve never used the PT LLM option, you might find you’re offering advice which is based on a different issue.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #11
Quote:
Originally Posted by pentagon View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by FirstLoveStudio View Post
Has anyone managed to get the 'Low Latency Monitoring' function in Pro Tools to work with an Antelope Orion??! It just cuts the audio monitoring out for me, not sure if they're compatible (which is a total disaster). Any ideas?!?!
I don't know what the others are going on about... they are conflating different issues.
Pro Tools LLM is about using the FPGA or other direct routing in the hardware interface to bypass Pro Tools DAW/computer completely while tracking. So CJ doesn't get that. This has nothing to do with buffers, etc. CJ may not be familiar with Pro Tools at all but LLM is just rebranding to offload direct routing to the hardware to avoid the computer. Used to be called "zero latency monitoring" by many audio interface makers.

And Pro Tools LLM will work with third party hardware (in fact, almost exclusively third party other than HDn since HDX doesn't use this.) The hardware just has to have it's own internal routing system. LLM just kills the audio out from Pro Tools so there isn't a duplicate signal (delayed) coming through.

As for the OP issue, yes, that's exactly what it does. It cuts audio monitoring. You'd have to set up separate routing from Antelope's software to route in to out. LLM doesn't take care of that for you -- it expects the user to know how to route that for their specific hardware. For Antelope, you could set up a routing preset specific for LLM when you turn it on.
Thank you, that's really helpful! Trouble is, if I set up my interface to monitor directly, it'll always be monitoring, if have to manually go turn it on-off constantly. I might as well just not use pt monitoring at all. Does pt really not talk to my interface at all?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FirstLoveStudio View Post
Thank you, that's really helpful! Trouble is, if I set up my interface to monitor directly, it'll always be monitoring, if have to manually go turn it on-off constantly. I might as well just not use pt monitoring at all. Does pt really not talk to my interface at all?
LLM is a pretty much a shortcut. There's no "communication" to the hardware about what it does from Pro Tools. It just automutes track outputs in record so you don't hear them (while at the same time leaving other tracks open so you can have "backing tracks") It then counts on the operator to be using the monitoring built into the audio hardware.

For low latency, it is handy because it comes as close to eliminating it as possible. If you want hardware communication with Pro Tools for tracking you are looking at being completely in the Pro Tools ecosystem which mean HDX. Why HDX exists.
With the Antelope, you can set presets. So just set one up for tracking and one for mixing. LLM should only be on while tracking and not while mixing. You'll finally get to use the preset buttons on the front of the Antelope! (that's what they are there for)

This is not a set it and forget it situation. Almost all systems that have hardware monitoring (RME TotalMix, MOTU CueMix, UA Apollo, etc.) have snapshot/preset recall so you can switch to direct monitoring (which also usually involves setting up cue mixes for the talent.)
Old 4 weeks ago
  #13
Quote:
Originally Posted by pentagon View Post
LLM is a pretty much a shortcut. There's no "communication" to the hardware about what it does from Pro Tools. It just automutes track outputs in record so you don't hear them (while at the same time leaving other tracks open so you can have "backing tracks") It then counts on the operator to be using the monitoring built into the audio hardware.

For low latency, it is handy because it comes as close to eliminating it as possible. If you want hardware communication with Pro Tools for tracking you are looking at being completely in the Pro Tools ecosystem which mean HDX. Why HDX exists.
With the Antelope, you can set presets. So just set one up for tracking and one for mixing. LLM should only be on while tracking and not while mixing. You'll finally get to use the preset buttons on the front of the Antelope! (that's what they are there for)

This is not a set it and forget it situation. Almost all systems that have hardware monitoring (RME TotalMix, MOTU CueMix, UA Apollo, etc.) have snapshot/preset recall so you can switch to direct monitoring (which also usually involves setting up cue mixes for the talent.)
...and HDX IS a set it and forget it setup hence the premium and why it’s worth it for some situations!
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