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PT "Vanilla" h/w insert dly compensation
Old 3rd July 2019
  #1
Here for the gear
PT "Vanilla" h/w insert dly compensation

Hi guys!

I have been setting up a creative non-commercial studio the last couple of weeks. Now I've met my first real issue.

The setup consists of a 2019 Mac mini i7 32GB ram running PT 2019.6 (+ Logic Pro/Ableton 10 Suite). Interface is a RME FF800 + Apogee AD16x and DA16 through ADAT. Everything runs fine and I've been hard wiring a bantam patch bay. Today I started to figure out the round trip latency. I figured out the latency in samples/ms and put it in the H/W insert delay tab.

I don't know if I'm stupid or if PT is just made really bad, but when I switch the buffer size to anything else the h/w insert delay doesn't follow. This means I can only use my outboard FX on one samplerate before I have to measure the latency once again and update every single AD/DA channel to the current ms latency.

Logic Pro does this without any problem, and I haven't really found anything on the internet except that PT HD/Ultimate with Avid hardware does this automatically.

thanks a alot
Old 4th July 2019
  #2
Lives for gear
 

Delay is always based on buffer size and sample rate. Always and for every system. Doesn't matter what DAW.

Compensation for the delay should be handled by the DAW. Including Pro Tools. Pro Tools gets reported the buffer delay by the audio interface. Turn delay comp on. If in record and you want delay comp on, you need to turn OFF low latency (the numbers will turn blue signifying delay comp is working on the record tracks) per channel by right-clicking where the delay numbers are per channel and selecting. By default, delay comp is turned off for record tracks in order to reduce overall delay for an input to output.

You have complicated things by putting an AD/DA after the RME. The RME cannot report the conversion delay created by that piece of hardware back to the system because it does not control it.

H/W insert delay is not supposed to be used the way you are using it -- it is for delay created by actual hardware -- not the audio interfaces. Those are two different sources of delay.

Also, btw, insert delays are session import-able. You can import that from a template for different sample rates/buffer sizes.
Old 4th July 2019
  #3
Here for the gear
Thanks for the reply.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pentagon View Post
Delay is always based on buffer size and sample rate. Always and for every system. Doesn't matter what DAW.
Yeah, this I know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pentagon View Post
Compensation for the delay should be handled by the DAW. Including Pro Tools. Pro Tools gets reported the buffer delay by the audio interface. Turn delay comp on. If in record and you want delay comp on, you need to turn OFF low latency (the numbers will turn blue signifying delay comp is working on the record tracks) per channel by right-clicking where the delay numbers are per channel and selecting. By default, delay comp is turned off for record tracks in order to reduce overall delay for an input to output.
I didn't know that I need to turn OFF low latency. I don't think I will use this too much in record mode. My workflow would be that I record something without FX, then send it through the FX while recording another piece of gear. When I want to use that particular FX on something else I have to real time commit it. This way I can also recall the mixes without the outboard. (Except for the 2-bus FX)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pentagon View Post
You have complicated things by putting an AD/DA after the RME. The RME cannot report the conversion delay created by that piece of hardware back to the system because it does not control it.
I might be off, but I don't think this actually matters. I'm just hard wiring a patch cable from the DA to the AD and then recording it back to PT. Then I'll measure how many samples/ms it's delayed. This will be my number in the H/W insert delay tab.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pentagon View Post
H/W insert delay is not supposed to be used the way you are using it -- it is for delay created by actual hardware -- not the audio interfaces. Those are two different sources of delay.
You are right. But it seems to be the only way to use outboard gear in parallell with PT if you are not running a full PT HD/HDX studio.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pentagon View Post
Also, btw, insert delays are session import-able. You can import that from a template for different sample rates/buffer sizes.
THIS might be my workaround! Thanks, I'll check if that's something I can rely on. I wish PT/Avid would move on from the days where they made the hardware. A ping like in Logic would be so much easier.
Old 4th July 2019
  #4
Gear Maniac
I agree! The lack of ping is the worst thing about protools in 2019
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