The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 All  This Thread  Reviews  Gear Database  Gear for sale     Latest  Trending
New Pro Tools Pricing July 1 2019
Old 22nd June 2019
  #121
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenixsoap View Post
Digi was still a brand for all of those releases. It says it on each of those devices.

Additionally the soul of the company was still in the products.
Absolutely! They were all still Digidesign branded.

I don't mean to imply this of your comments (which I found considered and interesting), but I find some look back on previous years with a certain nostalgia for Digidesign, when in fact the company was already owned by Avid, and I just wanted to put that in an historical context.

I hope there is still a little bit of that Digidesign soul left, fighting to break free again!
Old 22nd June 2019
  #122
How long do you think we'll be able to ride out PT12?
Old 22nd June 2019
  #123
Lives for gear
 
Realtugs's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kslight View Post
I guess I’m not clear what happens when it’s all done...do i forfeit the license of (example) my Pro Tools Perpetual or do I get to keep that too? And foreseeably...could one continue to pay for that perpetual Pro Tools along with getting a cross grade deal?
You keep everything/anything you own, and can carry on as if nothing has changed. Presonus just wants a shot to pry you... and your future money... away from wherever you spend it now.
Old 22nd June 2019
  #124
Lives for gear
 
Realtugs's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by robshrock View Post
How long do you think we'll be able to ride out PT12?
I still run PT5 from time to time. You just have to be prepared to freeze a system in time when they drop support from certain hardware... and operating systems.

PT12... decades???
Old 22nd June 2019
  #125
Really well said...

Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenixsoap View Post
Yes they could focus on making good software instead of spending time trying to extract as much money with existing products.

It won't be the standard for long. Today a student asked if Pro Tools was really necessary and I had to say no, Logic makes a lot more sense unless you're working with other studios (which most of my students are not).

It is easy enough to make stems to send to mixing/mastering engineers.

Subscriptions are a clever way to make money in the short term without offering more value. In the long term the customer base is depleted to the older studios (/engineers) and older companies. I personally need to make a living and I haven't survived this long by paying random subscriptions to every SaaS that comes my way.

The alternative would be for them to get rid of the marketing and business strategy departments and focus on making good products for their customers. Digidesign did exactly that which was way Pro Tools was so dominant for so long. There was a wide representation of products for every level, for example when one could buy an MBox, or an 003, or a bunch of hd cards and a huge D-Control console.

They have essentially given up the hardware business and now need to make ends meet via software and that was a huge financial loss for Avid. They don't have any revenue from prosumer hardware and have handed off the latest versions of their converters to D.A.D.

Pro Tools First is a joke compared to the other free options out there due to limitations. They needed to zig instead of zag .. they needed to up their hardware game and make the software really accessible but instead they slashed the hardware and made the software the gatekeeper, increasingly raising the price.

First it was tying the software to HDX. They could have made it a more gradual shift but my studio never did move on from PT 10 in the "A" room because everything would need to be replaced from computer to converter and no-one felt like doing that nor spending the 15 grand when everything worked as it was. If we could have upgraded one-at-a-time that room would be much more up to date software and OS-wise. and Avid probably would have that 15 grand from us by now.

Second was the subscription software model. For me personally I want to be able to rely on my recording setup like crazy. In a subscription model the versions are never finished, stable releases. There is always a mix of bug fixes and new features.

With properly versioned software all the features in a given software platform-of-the-day are stabilized, even after the newer version is released. This is why you can still get security updates in Yosemite even though the current version is High Sierra.

Under a subscription model there is an additional marketing pizzaz with the message of "constant new features" while at the same time the company can cut corners with security releases. I can't imagine they describe it that way internally, it much sound much more positive, but that's the way it works. They probably want to move beyond perpetual licenses because they can no-longer deliver finished, fully-working versions of their software like they used to back in the Digidesign days of 7.4.2 or what was it 5.3.2.

I think part of the reason this attempt to lure people towards subscriptions is in part because a lot of people, me included, must have dropped out in January. When Avid switched to the subscription/perpetual model a few years back that was the cutoff. I think most of their perpetual renewer base had subscribed during that initial countdown and this year a bunch must have not renewed and taken a wait-and-see approach. I was going to wait 2.5 years and potentially pay the $999 to renew (at a better, busy time than the dead of winter when my studio is slowest). They probably think by making it look desirable to 'trade in' a perpetual license they aren't worth more than a subscription. Unfortunately for everyone that is wrong.

Pros will not be duped and hobbyists and bands won't have the budget.I think they know next year even more perpetual license update subscriptions will expire and they are hoping to bait those people into needing to renew.

Apple saved themselves in the audio community by giving their customers what they wanted. Avid will not survive if they keep thinking they can take what they want.
Very well put. And that 15K could go towards the mic locker or maybe an HVAC upgrade. Or getting a lunchbox and filling it up for special use stuff.
In any case, I feel better now knowing that I can still record 16 simultaneous tracks (24/48KHz) via the 003R (and Apollo via ADAT opto, even slaving the 003R to the Apollo via Word Clock) via Firewire 400 to a 2005 Mac Mini PPC 1.4GHz with 1GB RAM running Tiger, recording to an external FW400 bus powered SSD, running Pro Tools 7.4. 3+ solid hours of tracks without a 6101 error. It's actually more trusty than 2019.5 on my i7 8700K 4.5GHz Intel with 64GB RAM. I just hate editing in Logic because I'm adept in Pro Tools. Time to get better at Logic, I guess.
Old 22nd June 2019
  #126
Lives for gear
 
Realtugs's Avatar
 

... whatevs
Old 22nd June 2019
  #127
Avid politely raping us
Buy a licence, buy upgrade every year. So they’re trying to find new ways to milk us basically. I’ve got three daws and protools is the one costing the most and it’s the less stable. Ive met many pissed off engineers and some even shifting to other daws. I sometimes wonder why I stick to protools

Last edited by caton; 22nd June 2019 at 10:34 AM.. Reason: Phrasing
Old 22nd June 2019
  #128
Watching avid slow and steady fall
Old 22nd June 2019
  #129
Lives for gear
 
Sleazy_Rider's Avatar
 

VHS video was the industry Standard but Betamax was better...Same with PT...there are just far superior DAWS out there if you are willing to invest your time into them.

Things have moved on...just the way one has to create a send and return in PT is like cranking an engine...
Old 22nd June 2019
  #130
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Realtugs View Post
You keep everything/anything you own, and can carry on as if nothing has changed. Presonus just wants a shot to pry you... and your future money... away from wherever you spend it now.
Gotcha, thanks.
Old 22nd June 2019
  #131
Lives for gear
 
Realtugs's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kslight View Post
Gotcha, thanks.
Old 22nd June 2019
  #132
Lives for gear
 
Sleazy_Rider's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kslight View Post
Gotcha, thanks.
You just become trapped on legacy os and uptodate features...
Old 22nd June 2019
  #133
Lives for gear
 
Realtugs's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teej View Post
...the marketing and sales departments are doing...
...what they're told to do. They don't like it? GTFO!
Old 22nd June 2019
  #134
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Realtugs View Post
...what they're told to do. They don't like it? GTFO!
I think you're missing my point that there are people at Avid who still give a **** about Pro Tools, care about its development, care about helping the end users and hate the direction the company is taking. Seeing Pro Tools spun off into its own company or bought by someone else could potentially be amazing.
Old 22nd June 2019
  #135
The basic subscription is almost $400 Canadian dollars per year. Talk about flushing money down the toilet if you're not running a business. Who is THAT attached to their daw? I just updated my licence to Reaper which was like 70$ - in total I've paid $140 over the last 10 years - for a fully functioning never crashing daw.

As a business expense I guess it's marginal, but for individuals it's kind of ridiculous. I'm not sure what value you get having constant updates - I mean I ran an older version of Reaper for like 4 years without a hitch - in fact I didn't need to update at all, I just felt like doing because the cost was marginal.

I'm sure most don't get much benefit from every new update and fix to justify that subscription price. The Pro Tools Ultimate price is staggering $1300.00 a year US, about $1700 Canadian per year.

You really gotta love that workflow....
Old 22nd June 2019
  #136
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverb View Post
The basic subscription is almost $400 Canadian dollars per year.
That's not just a basic subscription plan though, it's the "Pro Tools Ultimate License Upgrade & Support Plan" (according to PT expert).

It presumes you already have Ultimate and then also offers support.

The basic subscription seems to be "Pro Tools Standard Annual Rental - paid annually". Granted, it's still $299 but at least there's no reinstatement to worry about if you stop subscribing. For perpetual the most basic subscription is still "standard" PT at $199, but without support.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverb View Post
As a business expense I guess it's marginal, but for individuals it's kind of ridiculous. I'm not sure what value you get having constant updates - I mean I ran an older version of Reaper for like 4 years without a hitch - in fact I didn't need to update at all, I just felt like doing because the cost was marginal.
Well, it's $25/month for the standard monthly rental (if paid annually). That's not a tremendous amount of money all things considered. If you look at it as a hobby it's less than a beer per week here in New York, or equivalent to a couple of streaming services or whatnot.

I understand that it adds up of course, and I think the bigger concern really should be the concept of paying up front for promised future upgrades. As you said, a concern is going to be if you need them, and another is going to be if they're on schedule.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverb View Post
The Pro Tools Ultimate price is staggering $1300.00 a year US
Mmmm… no, it's not as far as I can see. If you want to rent it's $800, if you want a perpetual license then the entry is $2600 for a new license plus the annual $400 upgrade/support. Over a decade that's $660 per year.
Old 22nd June 2019
  #137
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiasnyc View Post
That's not just a basic subscription plan though, it's the "Pro Tools Ultimate License Upgrade & Support Plan" (according to PT expert).

It presumes you already have Ultimate and then also offers support.

The basic subscription seems to be "Pro Tools Standard Annual Rental - paid annually". Granted, it's still $299 but at least there's no reinstatement to worry about if you stop subscribing. For perpetual the most basic subscription is still "standard" PT at $199, but without support.



Well, it's $25/month for the standard monthly rental (if paid annually). That's not a tremendous amount of money all things considered. If you look at it as a hobby it's less than a beer per week here in New York, or equivalent to a couple of streaming services or whatnot.

I understand that it adds up of course, and I think the bigger concern really should be the concept of paying up front for promised future upgrades. As you said, a concern is going to be if you need them, and another is going to be if they're on schedule.



Mmmm… no, it's not as far as I can see. If you want to rent it's $800, if you want a perpetual license then the entry is $2600 for a new license plus the annual $400 upgrade/support. Over a decade that's $660 per year.
I pulled my numbers from their website .
Old 22nd June 2019
  #138
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverb View Post
I pulled my numbers from their website .
Where? I don't see those numbers.
Old 22nd June 2019
  #139
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiasnyc View Post
Where? I don't see those numbers.
Sorry 999 us per year - the site switched the currency
Old 22nd June 2019
  #140
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverb View Post
Sorry 999 us per year - the site switched the currency
I'm still not seeing it.

Can't you just link to the page that has that pricing?
Old 22nd June 2019
  #141
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiasnyc View Post
I'm still not seeing it.

Can't you just link to the page that has that pricing?
https://shop.avid.com/ccrz__ProductD...01&cclcl=en_CA

The currency is wonky and keeps switching but this is the link
Old 22nd June 2019
  #142
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverb View Post
https://shop.avid.com/ccrz__ProductD...01&cclcl=en_CA

The currency is wonky and keeps switching but this is the link
I see. Well if you read the PT-expert article they're referring to what Avid posted itself on its Facebook page. The $999 price paying up front for a one year subscription / rental of PT ultimate is the current price. From what I understand starting July 1st that's going to drop to $799. So that's a 20% drop for any such customer.

If we wanted to isolate individual changes that Avid is making that change should make anyone thinking about such a deal very happy. A 20% reduction in cost is nothing to sneeze at if money is tight.
Old 23rd June 2019
  #143
Lives for gear
 
Brian Campbell's Avatar
 

I'm still running PT HD10 (have PT HD 12.5 no longer installed) and stopped paying the upgrade and support plan after the first 15 months. PT 11 was a bust and 12 wasn't much better (another discussion). I have three perpetual licenses, one HD and two standard . Reinstatement for HD to Ultimate is $1300 CAD ($999 USD) and $390 CAD for each of the standard upgrade and support plans. So it will cost me $2100 CAD to move forward. I make a living in post using PT 10 and Avid has not given me a compelling reason to upgrade. There's no trial so I can't demo the software and having been 'burned' before I'm reluctant to trust Avid. At some point I will upgrade but it will be when I'm ready and feel that the version I'm moving to is not a piece of crap. The other issue is I do not need the support plan (the two experiences I had with support were a joke) and I don't need or want the extra plugins. Avid should separate the support and extra plugins from the upgrade plan with appropriate pricing. One possibility is Avid will drop the perpetual license and change the session format (*.ptz or something) and everyone will be forced to get on board. There seems to be some good alternatives to PT but not in the current post production environment.
The short notice announcement seems very poorly executed. Same ol Avid...
Old 23rd June 2019
  #144
Lives for gear
 
64gtoboy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Campbell View Post
I'm still running PT HD10 (have PT HD 12.5 no longer installed) and stopped paying the upgrade and support plan after the first 15 months. PT 11 was a bust and 12 wasn't much better (another discussion). I have three perpetual licenses, one HD and two standard . Reinstatement for HD to Ultimate is $1300 CAD ($999 USD) and $390 CAD for each of the standard upgrade and support plans. So it will cost me $2100 CAD to move forward. I make a living in post using PT 10 and Avid has not given me a compelling reason to upgrade. There's no trial so I can't demo the software and having been 'burned' before I'm reluctant to trust Avid. At some point I will upgrade but it will be when I'm ready and feel that the version I'm moving to is not a piece of crap. The other issue is I do not need the support plan (the two experiences I had with support were a joke) and I don't need or want the extra plugins. Avid should separate the support and extra plugins from the upgrade plan with appropriate pricing. One possibility is Avid will drop the perpetual license and change the session format (*.ptz or something) and everyone will be forced to get on board. There seems to be some good alternatives to PT but not in the current post production environment.
The short notice announcement seems very poorly executed. Same ol Avid...
The upgrade used to be with the support plan and the plugins were separate, each was 99 usd a year. I didn't bother with either plan until they combined them for one 99 outlay. Now they are keeping them linked( I assume)but doubling the price. This is for the standard PT perpetual folks.

There are a lot of assumptions going on about the FB posts but the announcements on the DUC have pretty much thrown the FB team under the bus as some of the stuff supposedly posted there was already deemed incorrect by Corporate denial team.IDK just what Ive picked while watching the train wreck currently going on.
Old 23rd June 2019
  #145
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 64gtoboy View Post
The upgrade used to be with the support plan and the plugins were separate, each was 99 usd a year. I didn't bother with either plan until they combined them for one 99 outlay. Now they are keeping them linked( I assume)but doubling the price. This is for the standard PT perpetual folks.
When did they ever give us the updates AND support and plugins for $99!?!? It was always $99 for updates, and another $99 for the support and plugins. I've been on the plan since they introduced it.

If they're now combining them for $199, that's certainly more reasonable than $199 for just updates. But there doesn't seem to be any indication of that. Looks like a 100% increase for just updates, in which case...
Old 23rd June 2019
  #146
Lives for gear
 
64gtoboy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jscomposer View Post
When did they ever give us the updates AND support and plugins for $99!?!? It was always $99 for updates, and another $99 for the support and plugins. I've been on the plan since they introduced it.

If they're now combining them for $199, that's certainly more reasonable than $199 for just updates. But there doesn't seem to be any indication of that. Looks like a 100% increase for just updates, in which case...
IIRC it was only the past two years. Also, I think you may be right that it will be changing to update/support without plugins at the new high price.
Old 23rd June 2019
  #147
Here for the gear
 

As a Sibelius user, I was heartbroken to see how it's development languished after Avid bought it. I've been using 7 for many years and Avid has never offered me a compelling reason to upgrade.....Until now that I have no choice. I don't mind subscriptions if the company offers updates and makes the user's experience dynamic. Take Slate Digital, which I I have subscribed to for years; this subscription is a great value because the company is always adding to, and improving their products. Every so often you wake up to a cool new plug-in that you get to download for free. EastWest Composer Cloud, on the other hand of (which I also subscribe) do very little to improve their products or offer new libraries/VI's for the money I give them every month. (I really wish they would be more like Slate). Take Logic Pro X (which, I know isn't a subscription) but again offer regular updates at no cost. Of course Apple recoups their money on the premium I pay to use their hardware. With Sibelius (and, I suppose PT users)..what to do?.....After 3 years of subscribing I will have shelled out the same as the cost of a permanent license. I am pretty sure that not one line of code will be improved in that software during that three years and let's face it, Avid support isn't worth much. I wish I could think of another option. I have literally thousands of scores that I have to keep alive.....
Old 23rd June 2019
  #148
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 64gtoboy View Post
IIRC it was only the past two years. Also, I think you may be right that it will be changing to update/support without plugins at the new high price.
I bought a PT10/11/12 perpetual license and have updated every year. The first year did include support and pro plugins, but after that it was always $99 for a year of updates and another $99 for a year of support & pro plugins. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Old 23rd June 2019
  #149
Lives for gear
 
weezul's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Campbell View Post
One possibility is Avid will drop the perpetual license and change the session format (*.ptz or something) and everyone will be forced to get on board.

Oh man, I can't even imagine to begin the fallout from that one. With no option to save in an older format... would be absolute chaos
Old 23rd June 2019
  #150
Lives for gear
 
64gtoboy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jscomposer View Post
I bought a PT10/11/12 perpetual license and have updated every year. The first year did include support and pro plugins, but after that it was always $99 for a year of updates and another $99 for a year of support & pro plugins. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Well now i just feel like i have been getting away with something for a couple of years. I admit to usually waiting until avid sends me the sale email though.
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump