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New Pro Tools Pricing July 1 2019
Old 20th June 2019
  #91
Lives for gear
 
Sleazy_Rider's Avatar
 

Stuck in your ways and pay the price....adapt and flourish...

Natural selection right there....
Old 20th June 2019
  #92
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgrotto View Post
Indeed.

It makes me wonder about my future interns. The prohibitive cost of entry for pro tools will preclude your average 19 year old’s accessibility. In the long term, that could mean fewer-still useful young people in professional music studios that make their way as engineers (and there are already so very few), and eventually, a phasing out of pt altogether.

I intend to start polling my current interns to find out what DAWs they and their peers use, with an eye towards switching away from exclusive pt use at my commercial room in the near future.
About 3 years ago I began staying in Logic Pro and not transferring to PT HD. They give you so much for $199. I did that after watching my daughter, who was 12 at the time, breezing through Logic and doing the same things I did in HD. All of her friends have Logic and an Apollo. My nephews in high school do internships where they use Pro Tools, but all the interns use Logic for their own stuff and collabs.
Old 20th June 2019
  #93
Gear Addict
 
chipss36's Avatar
 

So you just raised renewal price 101% got it.
And nope!
Full time logic now. At this point I would rather support a hacker cracker than avid. Just saying.

Fpt!
Old 20th June 2019
  #94
Gear Guru
 

The per month (no commitment) rental though seems pretty reasonable for those of us who only need it once in a while. I'm using Nuendo at home and if I need PT to deliver stems or work in temporarily it'll pay itself off right away.
Old 20th June 2019
  #95
For what it’s worth when I started making records everyone had Studers and SSL’s or Neve’s and people bought CDs. Then it went to Pro Tools and Macs w/ some outboard and eventually people paying ITunes for single downloads now it seems both Avid and Apple have bigger (video, movies etc) fish to fry and the next gen of music creators are moving on to move programming centric DAWs w/ more mobile computer platforms and music is Streamed (for pennies ). Look I miss it all, the real gear, or the Macs that could be altered to our specs for more reasonable cash during an era when labels paid real money and their were real royalties but...

All that’s gone, sad as it is , we all need to adapt both to the financial reality as well as where tech is heading but I’ve adapted 2x before and I’m sure not interested in dreaming about the good old days and getting left behind now. So the hunt for a new DAW and CPU to replace my trash can in about a year is fully on. See you in the future...
Old 20th June 2019
  #96
Gear Nut
No one here is a dummy, and very few if any customers actually want this change. Software as a Service (SaaS) has been a boon for companies like Adobe, Amazon, Oracle, Microsoft in the IT world. It’s well known and established why...

With a perpetual license, you can buy it once and choose to not pay maintenance / upgrade for many years.

With SaaS, the margins go up to 66% a year, because you are stuck by not owning the software. It ceases to function.

Look at any public company who sells software. Wall Street demands revenue streams and profit margins. The only way to achieve this is by moving to SaaS.

So Avid, don’t patronize your loyal fan base by saying they asked for it. Spend your creative time on making this a value proposition. I detest not owning things, but this week’s Slate change reinforces the concept that value can be had in a subscription agreement. Roland Cloud allows you to pick 2 VST’s to OWN with every year of subscription.

I don’t buy for a minute that some college kid wants a month at a time. Maybe passing hobbyists, but if your serious with any tool, you use it constantly, not a month at a time. Sure effects, instruments and sound libraries may not be used as frequently, but a DAW?
Old 20th June 2019
  #97
Lives for gear
Well. I just paid my update fee. As it stands for me, it’s still a perpetual license. The rumor is that this will change in the next year or two.

For a millisecond, I considered using another DAW. But Pro Tools really is the best for tracking/mixing/audio editing.
Love Pro Tools... can’t stand corporate Avid.
Old 20th June 2019
  #98
No HDX, no hire?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy4Jazz View Post
(snip) ...in a discussion about interfaces, someone commented that he would not hire a commercial studio that did not have HDX... (snip)
His context would be of value here. I'm guessing that he's considering A/V Post or the new requirement by the of delivering stems in 24/96KHz by most if not all labels and picture studios.

Maybe it's easier end-to-end with Pro Tools for this. IDK. All I've ever used with ease is Pro Tools and Studio Vision Pro.

It pains me that since I cannot afford HDX and I'm allergic to SaaS that I will commit to learning how to be more deft in Logic X.

But I do have an investment in the Vienna Symphonic Library stuff and I just finished wrangling a decent Pro Tools 2019.5 template.

Old 20th June 2019
  #99
Lives for gear
 
Sleazy_Rider's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flippy Floppy View Post

For a millisecond, I considered using another DAW. But Pro Tools really is the best for tracking/mixing/audio editing.
Love Pro Tools... can’t stand corporate Avid.
I thought that until I took the Red pill
Old 20th June 2019
  #100
I would like to clarify that I have only very minor qualms with the subscription model in most cases. What has irked me with avid is the “punishment” they dole out if you interrupt the subscription. I’d prefer to not feel punished as a decade-and-a-half long professional user. If they can alienate me, they’re gonna alienate many, many more.
Old 20th June 2019
  #101
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMagician View Post
For what it’s worth when I started making records everyone had Studers and SSL’s or Neve’s and people bought CDs. Then it went to Pro Tools and Macs w/ some outboard and eventually people paying ITunes for single downloads now it seems both Avid and Apple have bigger (video, movies etc) fish to fry and the next gen of music creators are moving on to move programming centric DAWs w/ more mobile computer platforms and music is Streamed (for pennies ). Look I miss it all, the real gear, or the Macs that could be altered to our specs for more reasonable cash during an era when labels paid real money and their were real royalties but...

All that’s gone, sad as it is , we all need to adapt both to the financial reality as well as where tech is heading but I’ve adapted 2x before and I’m sure not interested in dreaming about the good old days and getting left behind now. So the hunt for a new DAW and CPU to replace my trash can in about a year is fully on. See you in the future...
Exactly this. Well said
Old 20th June 2019
  #102
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bgrotto View Post
I would like to clarify that I have only very minor qualms with the subscription model in most cases. What has irked me with avid is the “punishment” they dole out if you interrupt the subscription. I’d prefer to not feel punished as a decade-and-a-half long professional user. If they can alienate me, they’re gonna alienate many, many more.

Yeah it’s like, I’ve been a paying PT customer for 14 years now...other DAWs generally you buy whatever version, and you can choose to upgrade sometime later, whether that’s at the next release or 3 releases later, it’s often the same fee. And some, especially Ableton and Logic, have provided years of updates before asking for money.

As it stands I don’t think my perpetual expires until 2021 because i had gotten renewals when on sale, but I haven’t logged in to check.
Old 20th June 2019
  #103
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d.dot's Avatar
 

I was very productive this morning.
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Old 20th June 2019
  #104
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bgrotto View Post
I would like to clarify that I have only very minor qualms with the subscription model in most cases. What has irked me with avid is the “punishment” they dole out if you interrupt the subscription. I’d prefer to not feel punished as a decade-and-a-half long professional user. If they can alienate me, they’re gonna alienate many, many more.
Same here. That's my primary issue with Avid's model as opposed to other subscriptions. It's not a customer friendly approach for sure.
Old 20th June 2019
  #105
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rectifried's Avatar
this fee "was" 199.. and included Update+Support.
all you ppl: " I was on PT back in...XXX" ..you remember the orig fee? [Im 19 yrs PT]
Then
They backtracked and split it
99 updates
99 support

I called , yelled at Namm, aes, to Split the HD as well.. :}

so they are going "back" to that..
Old 21st June 2019
  #106
Quote:
Originally Posted by bace View Post
Do they have any option? When you no longer can add new features that people are willing to pay for you need to get the money elsewhere. Avid have had lot of people that stayed on old releases. The offerings are not good enough. ProTools is very much what the standard, and people send their projects to a mixer or master or what ever. So they need part of the value chain to update so everyone else also need to update. Subscription is a very clever way to get the ecosystem to move forward. And currently there seems not to be any alternative...
Yes they could focus on making good software instead of spending time trying to extract as much money with existing products.

It won't be the standard for long. Today a student asked if Pro Tools was really necessary and I had to say no, Logic makes a lot more sense unless you're working with other studios (which most of my students are not).

It is easy enough to make stems to send to mixing/mastering engineers.

Subscriptions are a clever way to make money in the short term without offering more value. In the long term the customer base is depleted to the older studios (/engineers) and older companies. I personally need to make a living and I haven't survived this long by paying random subscriptions to every SaaS that comes my way.

The alternative would be for them to get rid of the marketing and business strategy departments and focus on making good products for their customers. Digidesign did exactly that which was way Pro Tools was so dominant for so long. There was a wide representation of products for every level, for example when one could buy an MBox, or an 003, or a bunch of hd cards and a huge D-Control console.

They have essentially given up the hardware business and now need to make ends meet via software and that was a huge financial loss for Avid. They don't have any revenue from prosumer hardware and have handed off the latest versions of their converters to D.A.D.

Pro Tools First is a joke compared to the other free options out there due to limitations. They needed to zig instead of zag .. they needed to up their hardware game and make the software really accessible but instead they slashed the hardware and made the software the gatekeeper, increasingly raising the price.

First it was tying the software to HDX. They could have made it a more gradual shift but my studio never did move on from PT 10 in the "A" room because everything would need to be replaced from computer to converter and no-one felt like doing that nor spending the 15 grand when everything worked as it was. If we could have upgraded one-at-a-time that room would be much more up to date software and OS-wise. and Avid probably would have that 15 grand from us by now.

Second was the subscription software model. For me personally I want to be able to rely on my recording setup like crazy. In a subscription model the versions are never finished, stable releases. There is always a mix of bug fixes and new features.

With properly versioned software all the features in a given software platform-of-the-day are stabilized, even after the newer version is released. This is why you can still get security updates in Yosemite even though the current version is High Sierra.

Under a subscription model there is an additional marketing pizzaz with the message of "constant new features" while at the same time the company can cut corners with security releases. I can't imagine they describe it that way internally, it much sound much more positive, but that's the way it works. They probably want to move beyond perpetual licenses because they can no-longer deliver finished, fully-working versions of their software like they used to back in the Digidesign days of 7.4.2 or what was it 5.3.2.

I think part of the reason this attempt to lure people towards subscriptions is in part because a lot of people, me included, must have dropped out in January. When Avid switched to the subscription/perpetual model a few years back that was the cutoff. I think most of their perpetual renewer base had subscribed during that initial countdown and this year a bunch must have not renewed and taken a wait-and-see approach. I was going to wait 2.5 years and potentially pay the $999 to renew (at a better, busy time than the dead of winter when my studio is slowest). They probably think by making it look desirable to 'trade in' a perpetual license they aren't worth more than a subscription. Unfortunately for everyone that is wrong.

Pros will not be duped and hobbyists and bands won't have the budget.I think they know next year even more perpetual license update subscriptions will expire and they are hoping to bait those people into needing to renew.

Apple saved themselves in the audio community by giving their customers what they wanted. Avid will not survive if they keep thinking they can take what they want.
Old 21st June 2019
  #107
Lives for gear
 
Realtugs's Avatar
 

Studio One Professional crossgrade sale now on $199. Runs through July 5th.

What a coincidence! Wise move. Not sure they'll be the only ones doing it, either.
Old 21st June 2019
  #108
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Sleazy_Rider's Avatar
 

https://shop.presonus.com/Studio-One-4-Crossgrade

Link to make it easier
Old 21st June 2019
  #109
Here for the gear
 

Right now on those popular plugin discount sites, you can get Studio One for about $170. As long as you already own another DAW, which I'm sure we all do. No reason to stay with Pro Tools anymore unless you just don't want the inconvenience of learning another DAW. Even if most of us can afford $200/year to stay up to date with Pro Tools, it just doesn't make sense anymore. If I'm at a gas station and gas is $2/gallon, but right across the street it's $1/gallon, I'm going to move my car across the street for the cheaper gas. Yes it's a pain to get back into my car, drive across the street and find a pump, but it's not really that big a deal. Yes i can afford $2/gallon, but why reward the greedy gas station?
The fact that Avid is even offering to crossgrade to a rental by giving up your perpetual license tells me they think we're all idiots. Why would anyone give Avid $99 to move to a rental and give up the perpetual license you paid $600 for?
Old 21st June 2019
  #110
Lives for gear
 
Sleazy_Rider's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalJerry View Post
Right now on those popular plugin discount sites, you can get Studio One for about $170. As long as you already own another DAW, which I'm sure we all do. No reason to stay with Pro Tools anymore unless you just don't want the inconvenience of learning another DAW.
Once you try S1 it soon becomes clear how behind PT is in terms of workflow...and I used PT for years...

$167 is the cheapest I found for the cross grade from a reputable e-tailor
Old 21st June 2019
  #111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleazy_Rider View Post
Once you try S1 it soon becomes clear how behind PT is in terms of workflow...and I used PT for years...

$167 is the cheapest I found for the cross grade from a reputable e-tailor
I'm playing a bit with S1

Anyone know how you make split an event at the cursor with a shortcut?

Nevermind. Figured it out. The protools shortcut set doesn't quite jive.


Also, the price increase thread on duc seems to have gone stealth
Old 22nd June 2019
  #112
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenixsoap View Post
The alternative would be for them to get rid of the marketing and business strategy departments and focus on making good products for their customers. Digidesign did exactly that which was way Pro Tools was so dominant for so long. There was a wide representation of products for every level, for example when one could buy an MBox, or an 003, or a bunch of hd cards and a huge D-Control console.
PEDANT ALERT!
Avid bought Digidesign in 1995. The Mbox was released in 2003, the D-Control in 2004, and the 003 was released in 2007.
Old 22nd June 2019
  #113
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Realtugs View Post
Studio One Professional crossgrade sale now on $199. Runs through July 5th.

What a coincidence! Wise move. Not sure they'll be the only ones doing it, either.

Cubase Pro just had a pretty good cross grade sale, under $200.


As someone that never has done a cross grade...how does this process work exactly?
Old 22nd June 2019
  #114
Quote:
Originally Posted by lae777 View Post
PEDANT ALERT!
Avid bought Digidesign in 1995. The Mbox was released in 2003, the D-Control in 2004, and the 003 was released in 2007.
Digi was still a brand for all of those releases. It says it on each of those devices.

Additionally the soul of the company was still in the products.
Old 22nd June 2019
  #115
Lives for gear
 
Sleazy_Rider's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kslight View Post
Cubase Pro just had a pretty good cross grade sale, under $200.


As someone that never has done a cross grade...how does this process work exactly?
Create an account then

You email Presonus Support Proof of ownership of your current DAW...Online Invoice etc...

Then register your upgrade serial...

Its easy

https://shop.presonus.com/Studio-One-4-Crossgrade

if you buy from a third party...The chances are you will just register your serial and boom you have S1 in your account.

Mixbus is also eligible for the cross grade even though its not on the list. I checked with presonus myself.
Old 22nd June 2019
  #116
Lives for gear
 
Realtugs's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kslight View Post
Cubase Pro just had a pretty good cross grade sale, under $200.
Indeed. It was an anniversary sale. Would love to see them offer it again, and Nuendo, just to give Avid a rub.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kslight View Post
As someone that never has done a cross grade...how does this process work exactly?
You just purchase at crossgrade price, and then provide a copy of an original sales receipt for another DAW (electronic receipt is fine). May take a couple of days to be authorized, but usually worth the wait.
Old 22nd June 2019
  #117
Lives for gear
 
Sleazy_Rider's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Realtugs View Post
Indeed. It was an anniversary sale. Would love to see them offer it again, and Nuendo, just to give Avid a rub.
.
Studio one is from the guys who who worked at Steinberg...involved with Cubase and Nuendo

Studio One originally began development under the name K2, as a follow-up to the KRISTAL Audio Engine.[1] Although development for this follow-up began in 2004,[2] it transitioned in 2006 to a cooperation between PreSonus and KristalLabs Software Ltd., a start-up founded by former Steinberg employees Wolfgang Kundrus and Matthias Juwan.[3] Kundrus was one of the developers for initial versions of Cubase, and established concepts for the first version of Nuendo.[4] Juwan was the author of the original KRISTAL Audio Engine, wrote the specification for version 3 of the VST plug-in standard, and had also worked on multiple Steinberg products, including Cubase, Nuendo, and HALion.[5]

KristalLabs then became part of PreSonus in 2009,[3] and the former KristalLabs logo was used as the basis for the logo of Studio One.[6]

The first version of Studio One was announced on 1 April 2009 at Musikmesse,[7][8] and released on 27 September 2009.[9][10] The final update for Studio One version 1 (v1.6.5) was released in July 2011.[11][12]
Old 22nd June 2019
  #118
Lives for gear
 
Realtugs's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleazy_Rider View Post
Studio one is from the guys who who worked at Steinberg...
Indeed. Been starting to use it a lot more recently. Really enjoying it. Becoming mildly obsessed, actually... like I was with Pro Tools all those years ago.

Next will probably be one, or more, of their interfaces. Their new mixers look cool, too... a lotta DSP on board. May have to demo one to see how the control surface element integrates with S1.
Old 22nd June 2019
  #119
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Realtugs View Post
Indeed. It was an anniversary sale. Would love to see them offer it again, and Nuendo, just to give Avid a rub.



You just purchase at crossgrade price, and then provide a copy of an original sales receipt for another DAW (electronic receipt is fine). May take a couple of days to be authorized, but usually worth the wait.
I guess I’m not clear what happens when it’s all done...do i forfeit the license of (example) my Pro Tools Perpetual or do I get to keep that too? And foreseeably...could one continue to pay for that perpetual Pro Tools along with getting a cross grade deal?
Old 22nd June 2019
  #120
Lives for gear
Have been ProTools exclusively 1998 - 2016. Last few years sold off HDX (times 2), and PTHD SW transitioning to PT Vanilla and 3rd party i/o. Have paid thousands in maintenance and upgrade fees with very little to show for it over the span of PT12. Now have 9 months of support left on 1 perpetual license. Used S1 and Logic almost exclusively for a year+ and am leaning towards not renewing PT support next March. IMO - $199 a year is crazy if it is not your serious $$ making business :-).
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