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New Pro Tools Pricing July 1 2019
Old 3 hours ago
Gear Head
Originally Posted by xmission View Post
I know this is a sidetrack, but how does this square with the definitions I see for matching principal?

"The matching principle is an accounting concept where companies report expenses at the same time as the revenues they are related to. Revenues and expenses are matched on the income statement for a period of time (i.e. a year, quarter or month)."

You are able to defer the income so that you can expense at the same time?

I'm sure you know what you are talking about.
Sorry, my mistake on the principal (been a long time since I went to accounting school). It's deferred income but Pentagon is correct in his statements.
Old 3 hours ago
Originally Posted by TJ5 View Post
Sorry, my mistake on the principal (been a long time since I went to accounting school). It's deferred income but Pentagon is correct in his statements.
Thanks very much.
Old 2 hours ago
Lives for gear
Originally Posted by newguy1 View Post
No. FL Studio is widely used professionally, nothing to do with my personal experience.

Scroll to the “notable users” section:
Given the list of notable users, FL Studio appears to cater to just a few genres. Nothing wrong with that, but its something I didn't realize about the product. Pro Tools on the other hand caters to a broader audience in terms of genres.

I can see where folks heavy into MIDI/Samples would choose FL Studio over Pro Tools.
Old 2 hours ago
Gear Maniac
TexasCat's Avatar

Out of curiosity I also looked at the wiki for Studio One,

No wonder they have made such a rapid development. The guys behind it are no joke! I can only imagine what might be in store for the future...
Old 1 hour ago
Gear Guru
UnderTow's Avatar
Originally Posted by Alrod View Post
First off, you are making the assumption that others have only previewed the report.
I'll call your bluff: You did not read the report.

Have you read the entire report? If not, how can you dismiss it?
They already get things wrong in the preview. Of course I can dismiss it. It is the only reasonable thing to do.

Say what you will about the findings, but it is a report on a global scale whereas comments here are based on personal experiences.
I'll take the personal experience of people active in the music world over some market research company glancing at the DAW world from afar to create some superficial statistical report they can sell to investors. They are just expanding their portfolio of reports, they have no real interest in the DAW world.

Your logic is way off by the way. You wrote in the post I responded to: " The "General trends" being posted here more like generalizations based on personal experience and not necessarily real-world situations." That IS real-world situations! How more real-world can you get?

I'll concur with what others have said: I don't know a single musician/artist that uses PT for creating music. (But of course, it is all over the place in post-production studios and band/orchestra recording/mixing studios).

How do we know that Fruity Loops is not used more than other DAWs on a global scale? It's a pretty big world out there.
It is hard to know the exact numbers but if you follow the music world enough you get an indication. IMO FLS is used quite a bit! Probably more than PT for the actual creative stages of music making. Other than that I won't wager any guess as to how popular it is.

Also, they don't list Cakewalk as a company, they list it as a product which it still is.
All the other entries have the company name. SONAR has the brand name. Either they don't realise Cakewalk the company died or they are not very consistent and precise. Either way, that should ring alarm bells for anyone considering purchasing this report.

You are nitpicking the semantics which is actually made more clear in the full report.
First, you have not read the report, secondly, I am not nitpicking anything. I am pointing out that the report doesn't hold much value to me for the reasons stated. It most certainly isn't proof of anything.

Not sure what you mean by Listing Fruity Loops twice, again, I don't see the relevance.
Obviously you didn't even read the preview properly. And yet you cite the report as proof? That doesn't make sense.

As for the relevance, really? You don't understand how that puts the legitimacy, the attention to detail and thus the conclusions of the report in doubt? Let me explain it in simple terms: It is shoddy work and thus best ignored.

Regarding SEC filings, you need to look at the whole picture. Avid Technology is much more than just "Pro Tools".
No, YOU need to look at the bigger picture. I have been following Avid's business antics for over 15 years. Until recently they had a 14 year long stretch of making losses and every possible imaginable business mistake and then some. (They are back to loosing money btw. 2017 down $14 million, 2018 was down about $11 million). They have been loosing revenue and market share in all markets, not just PT. They have managed to stay afloat by liquidating all foreign assets and borrowing against their IP. Now they basically own nothing, including their own IP which is in the hand of the creditors. ($270 million in debt last time I checked. That is already $50 million more debt than in January. Not a good sign). They have very little cash left and there are some big debt repayment milestones coming up. Some of the institutional investors are holding on because they don't want to write off large chunks of investment but others are slowly shifting out of Avid.

Since Hernandez got fired, Avid seem to be making better financial decisions but we still have to see how that all pans out. Hopefully they manage to turn things around and keep on developing all their products. As PT is one of my main working tools, I don't want to see Avid go under but that doesn't make their numbers look any better than they are.

If you read their latest quarterly report, Avid as a whole could do better, but there is no sign of Pro Tools going away anytime soon. Based on the sales figures as well as it's reputation, Avid would probably have no problem selling Pro Tools to another company.
You obviously haven't been following Avid's quarterly reports or you would not suggest that they have good sales numbers. They don't! As for their reputation (and goodwill) they do seem intent on making all their customers angry at them. I don't believe that is a very good tactic in a market for creative people.

So... let's see how things develop but one thing is clear: Avid are not (yet) doing well.


Last edited by UnderTow; 20 minutes ago at 08:18 PM..
Old 35 minutes ago
Gear Guru
UnderTow's Avatar
Originally Posted by bgrotto View Post
Great post

Avid and Pro Tools will certainly survive the foreseeable future; there's really not much question about that. The "demise" that me and my fellow doom-sayers are doom-saying is less about the extinction of Avid and its software offerings, and more about the software's usefulness and longevity in the field of commercial music recording and production. As pointed out, post work and film work is still done largely in PT, and considering the MASSIVE investment that the post and especially film houses made into their Avid/PT rigs, it'd only make good business sense to keep those rigs in service for as long as possible to maximize their return.

That same calculus has been driving the studio industry's reluctance for change, but at this point, in many cases our rigs have been paid for many times over so there's not much financial incentive to prevent a switch. It's mostly about the hassle of learning new software.*

As such, Avid has been and will continue to cater more to the users in the post and film industries, and continue their now decade-long (see: M-Powered) decline in meeting the needs of recording engineers and more common users, leaving Pro Tools in the technological dust as a production DAW (especially as other, less-mature DAWs hustle to play catch-up with PT's decidedly superior editing feature set).

The point of all this is to say that it's my firm belief that Avid will continue its trend of catering largely to the post and film communities, to the detriment of its usefulness to recording studios and especially to the detriment of regular, working musicians.

*(as an aside: for fun yesterday i reached out to five professional engineer friends to talk about this very subject. Two of them had already begun or completed a switch, two expressed a strong desire to switch but were reluctant about the hassle and concerned about finding the time in their busy schedules to learn new gear, and only one said he loved PT and had no plans (or pipe dreams) of switching DAWs.

These five engineers are all folks making commercial records (one of the would-be switchers just won a grammy...congrats bud!), and they're spread geographically from L.A. to the U.K.)
I agree with what you say about the music side of things but I'm not sure the post and music world are that different when it comes to having written off investments. Most post facilities are not the Skywalker Ranch. Just as in the music world, I think most of the post-studios have long written off their HDX and HD|Native investments and are on the support plan like everyone else (at that level). Of course a facility with multiple S6 controllers won't be too eager to switch but they are not the majority of studios.

The thing about Resolve is that it has a the potential to both decrease cost and increase work-flow flexibility at the same time because video editors, colourists and audio engineers can work on the same project at the same time. (This is huge and something Avid should have been working towards since they acquired Digidesign more than 15 years ago!) So BM are introducing something potentially disruptive to the market.

On the music side, the market was already long been disrupted by the likes of Apple (dropping the price of Logic to $200) or Ableton (introducing a new way to create music) (and there are plenty of other examples). I think that is why more people on the music side of things are considering or outright switching to other DAWs (assuming they ever used PT in the first place).

All that said, what I think might be the biggest issue for Avid is the way they treat their customers (post or music). There comes a point when people don't want a companies products even if the products are serviceable simply because the company have used up all their goodwill.

Old 34 minutes ago
Gear Guru
UnderTow's Avatar
Originally Posted by Macky View Post
Interesting info on the Fairlight engine..thanks
You can download the beta version of Resolve (fully functional) to see how they are integrating the Fairlight engine if you are interested in that.

Old 32 minutes ago
Gear Guru
UnderTow's Avatar
Originally Posted by Philter View Post
Pro tools install base has grown not shrunk...
What are you basing that on?

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