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Pro Tools upgrade advice needed..
Old 5th May 2019
  #1
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Pro Tools upgrade advice needed..

Hello !

I need to upgrade my whole studio system and I am confused by the different PT options.
Right now I'm running PT12 on a Mac Pro 3.1 with Lynx Aurora Converters.
My first problem is my computer being too old for that PT version , I get too much latency and CPU spikes.
I can't work in these conditions so I will upgrade to a 2012 MacPro 5.1.
I don't have the budget for a HD rig, but I was looking at the HD Native Thunderbolt system, thinking it could work with any interface being Native, but it looks like you can only use it with Avid audio interfaces, correct?

If that's the case, I'd have to sell my Lynx system and buy an omni interface which will be too pricey for the moment.

As latency ( and tracks count) is my main concern,
another option would be to get an UA Apollo and keeping my PT 12 to track with no latency, although I'm afraid that would be a step down in quality from the Lynx Aurora converters.

In short is there a way to turn my existing system into an HD system at a reduced price ?
( even looking at older second hand systems?)


Thanks for your help!

Jean
Old 5th May 2019
  #2
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First question, do you need an HD (now called Ultimate) system? What for?

With a Mac 5,1 you can't use thunderbolt because there is no thunderbolt on it. (And despite some people desperately trying to find a way, there really won't be.)
You can use the HD Native Thunderbolt to connect to other third-party company's hardware if it has digilink or minidigilink connectors. You do have to pay another $300 for a license to Avid to use it though. However, it all doesn't matter in your case because you can't use thunderbolt on a Mac 5,1.

How are your Lynx Aurora converters connected currently? With current Pro Tools, you can use any core audio device -- including Lynx. You may just need to replace your computer and the Pro Tools software and nothing else and continue using your Aurora converters.
Old 5th May 2019
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pentagon View Post
First question, do you need an HD (now called Ultimate) system? What for?



With a Mac 5,1 you can't use thunderbolt because there is no thunderbolt on it. (And despite some people desperately trying to find a way, there really won't be.)
You can use the HD Native Thunderbolt to connect to other third-party company's hardware if it has digilink or minidigilink connectors. You do have to pay for another $300 for a license to Avid to use it though. However, it all doesn't matter in your case because you can't use thunderbolt on a Mac 5,1.


How are your Lynx Aurora converters connected currently? With current Pro Tools, you can use any core audio device -- including Lynx. You may just need to replace your computer and the Pro Tools software and nothing else and continue using your Aurora converters.
Thanks for your reply,
as I said I need HD for no latency tracking, track count , cue mix among others.
As for the thunderbolt issue, that means I'd need a PCIe HD card.

Also you're right, I just realized that there is an optional HD card for the Aurora.

Thanks!
Old 5th May 2019
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djanogil View Post
Thanks for your reply,
as I said I need HD for no latency tracking, track count , cue mix among others.
HD Native will not give you that. You'll need an HDX card for "no latency."
Think of HD Native (thunderbolt or if you can find the discontinued PCIe card) as a way to hookup audio interfaces that use Avid's digilink or minidigilink connectors. That includes Avid's own hardware and also any other third-party that offers it (but you have to pay for the ilok license to use those.)

The track count/voice count is the same limit as the Ultimate software alone (which you can use with any audio hardware interface.)
There is no true DSP mixer with HDN so the latency is not "no latency."
If you want the no latency aspect, you need the HDX card which has a dsp mixer onboard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by djanogil View Post
As for the thunderbolt issue, that means I'd need a PCIe HD card.
Yes.

And yes, the Lynx have been usable by multiple different ways including with the optional digilink connector (just remember you need to buy the Digi I/O license from Avid
https://www.avid.com/licenses/pro-to...ink-io-license
if you intend to do this otherwise it will not work)
Old 5th May 2019
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pentagon View Post
HD Native will not give you that. You'll need an HDX card for "no latency."
Think of HD Native (thunderbolt or if you can find the discontinued PCIe card) as a way to hookup audio interfaces that use Avid's digilink or minidigilink connectors. That includes Avid's own hardware and also any other third-party that offers it (but you have to pay for the ilok license to use those.)


The track count/voice count is the same limit as the Ultimate software alone (which you can use with any audio hardware interface.)
There is no true DSP mixer with HDN so the latency is not "no latency."
If you want the no latency aspect, you need the HDX card which has a dsp mixer onboard.


Yes.

And yes, the Lynx have been usable by multiple different ways including with the optional digilink connector (just remember you need to buy the Digi I/O license from Avid
https://www.avid.com/licenses/pro-to...ink-io-license
if you intend to do this otherwise it will not work)
Oh really ? That's not what I understood from this article; https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews...ve-thunderbolt

In that case I don't really understand the use of that Native Thunderbolt thing?
Thanks for your explanations,
and after fourteen years I still don't understand how to multi-quote
Old 5th May 2019
  #6
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noah330's Avatar
I'm running HD Native 12 with an SSL MADI interface and SSL converter and haven't had to buy any license to run them. What's the deal with that? Is it something new? Mine just show up as 192s.
Old 5th May 2019
  #7
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Read that article carefully. "negligible latency" "low latency"
And Paul White refers to the buffer size (which is the determiner of latency for HD Native).
Same as any other Core Audio interface you use with Pro Tools Ultimate (and HD Native doesn't unlock anything more from the Ultimate software that you won't get using Ultimate with any other Core Audio interface)

HDX/TDM have dsp i/o mixers by comparison. Fixed "no latency"* (unless you put native plugins on channels but that's to be expected)

*not truly no latency as nothing digital is
Old 5th May 2019
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah330 View Post
I'm running HD Native 12 with an SSL MADI interface and SSL converter and haven't had to buy any license to run them. What's the deal with that? Is it something new? Mine just show up as 192s.
It changed at Pro Tools 12.5. After that version, you need the license. If you buy an Avid audio interface, they give you the license. If you had a working system before that change, you can request a free license from Avid.
If you have a new system or bought after 12.5 was released, you have to buy a license.
Old 6th May 2019
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pentagon View Post
Read that article carefully. "negligible latency" "low latency"
And Paul White refers to the buffer size (which is the determiner of latency for HD Native).
Same as any other Core Audio interface you use with Pro Tools Ultimate (and HD Native doesn't unlock anything more from the Ultimate software that you won't get using Ultimate with any other Core Audio interface)

HDX/TDM have dsp i/o mixers by comparison. Fixed "no latency"* (unless you put native plugins on channels but that's to be expected)

*not truly no latency as nothing digital is
Ok I get it,
so really from a tracking perspective Pro Tools HDX has nothing to offer over a core audio interface?
I get near zero latency when monitoring my input via the Lynx software,
but the latency issue occurs when I want to monitor the track inserts through PT.
If that's the same scenario with a HD setup then as you say I might only get the Ultimate Software.
Old 6th May 2019
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djanogil View Post
Ok I get it,
so really from a tracking perspective Pro Tools HDX has nothing to offer over a core audio interface?
You are confusing two different products.

(A) HDX does offer “zero latency” in Pro Tools (and plugin processing, voice/track expandability, etc)

(B) HD Native (PCIe card or Thunderbolt box) does NOT offer anything more over Ultimate software alone other than allowing use of DigiLink/mini DigiLink connected audio interfaces/converters.

You had been asking about the second option above which is why I was pointing out you can stick with Ultimate software-only along with your Lynx Aurora and not miss anything.

If you go with an HDX card instead, then you get additional features.
Old 6th May 2019
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pentagon View Post
You are confusing two different products.

(A) HDX does offer “zero latency” in Pro Tools (and plugin processing, voice/track expandability, etc)

(B) HD Native (PCIe card or Thunderbolt box) does NOT offer anything more over Ultimate software alone other than allowing use of DigiLink/mini DigiLink connected audio interfaces/converters.

You had been asking about the second option above which is why I was pointing out you can stick with Ultimate software-only along with your Lynx Aurora and not miss anything.

If you go with an HDX card instead, then you get additional features.
Ok that makes sense, thank you.
So do you know what's the best way to upgrade to Ultimate software coming from PT12 ?
My renewal has expired, but I'm just wondering if they offer an upgrade price..
Old 6th May 2019
  #12
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Coming from regular Pro Tools 12 -> Pro Tools Ultimate? There is this upgrade plan:
https://shop.avid.com/ccrz__ProductD...&sku=DYNA20004
Third Item
"$1,899.00 Perpetual License Trade-Up from Pro Tools (Download)"

Coming from Pro Tools 12 HD (perpetual) -> Pro Tools Ultimate (perpetual), you want the “reinstatement” subscription. That updates you to the latest and gives you 1 year of updates.
https://shop.avid.com/ccrz__ProductD...&sku=DYNA20012
"$999.00 1-Year Software Updates + Support Plan (Download)"

Last edited by pentagon; 6th May 2019 at 03:56 PM.. Reason: Avid changed policies. Added links
Old 6th May 2019
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pentagon View Post
Coming from regular Pro Tools 12 -> Pro Tools Ultimate? There is this upgrade plan:
https://shop.avid.com/ccrz__ProductD...&sku=DYNA20004
Third Item
"$1,899.00 Perpetual License Trade-Up from Pro Tools (Download)"
Thanks for the link,
but that's just unbelievable how can a piece of software be that expensive??
Who on earth will pay $1900 only to get more audio tracks and plugins when most other DAWs have unlimited track count for a fraction of the price..
Ok I'll stick to PT12 regular for now.!
Cheers
Old 11th May 2019
  #14
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s12512's Avatar
I’m also still using a Mac Pro 3.1 with pt12. My system is running great! Latency is not an issue with my Audient id44. Your computer should be fine!
Old 11th May 2019
  #15
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s12512's Avatar
Maybe you should keep your lynx and the computer. Get an Apollo and run the lynx thru adat. That should solve all your problems.
Old 11th May 2019
  #16
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Sugarnutz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by pentagon View Post
HD Native (PCIe card or Thunderbolt box) does NOT offer anything more over Ultimate software alone other than allowing use of DigiLink/mini DigiLink connected audio interfaces/converters.
.
AND up to 64 I/O vs the 32 available with a 3rd party ASIO interface.
Old 11th May 2019
  #17
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Sugarnutz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by djanogil View Post
Thanks for the link,
but that's just unbelievable how can a piece of software be that expensive??
Who on earth will pay $1900 only to get more audio tracks and plugins when most other DAWs have unlimited track count for a fraction of the price..
Ok I'll stick to PT12 regular for now.!
Cheers
There are occasional sales. I got the same upgrade last December for $1519.20 from Sweetwater, not sure when they run their sales though. If you have Sweetwater rep give them a call.

Audio Deluxe has the straight up Ultimate Perpetual purchase for $1699.00, but you have to create an account and put it the cart to see that price.
Old 12th May 2019
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s12512 View Post
I’m also still using a Mac Pro 3.1 with pt12. My system is running great! Latency is not an issue with my Audient id44. Your computer should be fine!
Really? Mine is an early 2008, I do big sessions at 88khz and even at a high buffer setting I get cpu spikes and error messages.
Old 12th May 2019
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s12512 View Post
Maybe you should keep your lynx and the computer. Get an Apollo and run the lynx thru adat. That should solve all your problems.
My Lynx is AES 16, there's no adat on it,
for now I'll upgrade my computer and stick with my setup,
I've just downloaded PT12.8 and it works better than the version I had before.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #20
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s12512's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by djanogil View Post
My Lynx is AES 16, there's no adat on it,
for now I'll upgrade my computer and stick with my setup,
I've just downloaded PT12.8 and it works better than the version I had before.
I believe they have an adat card for the lynx.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #21
Quote:
Originally Posted by djanogil View Post
Ok I get it,
so really from a tracking perspective Pro Tools HDX has nothing to offer over a core audio interface?
I get near zero latency when monitoring my input via the Lynx software,
but the latency issue occurs when I want to monitor the track inserts through PT.
If that's the same scenario with a HD setup then as you say I might only get the Ultimate Software.
If you’re happy to use the cue mixer and not have plugins on inserts while tracking, hdx might not offer you anything.

But that’s the point of it - low latency tracking with an integrated system.

Every cue mixer software is essentially a workaround, but some are more elegant than others.

For small scale tracking, I’d struggle to justify the hex setup and I’d probably go uad Apollo - love this setup for vocal tracking.

For band or other ensembles, I’d probably bite the bullet and go to hdx.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #22
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Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

If you really want zero latency, an analog monitor mix is the only solution!
Old 3 weeks ago
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
If you really want zero latency, an analog monitor mix is the only solution!
You’re right that’s ideal but out of my reach at this point.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
If you’re happy to use the cue mixer and not have plugins on inserts while tracking, hdx might not offer you anything.

But that’s the point of it - low latency tracking with an integrated system.

Every cue mixer software is essentially a workaround, but some are more elegant than others.

For small scale tracking, I’d struggle to justify the hex setup and I’d probably go uad Apollo - love this setup for vocal tracking.

For band or other ensembles, I’d probably bite the bullet and go to hdx.
Thanks for your advice,
the cue mix console from Lynx does the job,
and I found a trick to use reverb from PT, using pre-fader sends and muting the track, this way I have the direct signal via the Lynx mixer plus the reverb from PT.

Reverb is of course what most vocalists ask for when tracking, so this scenario is ok although I have to change my reverb sends from pre to post after each take which is not ideal.
I don't do live bands as my studio is too small,
so I guess I can live with that setup for now..

Cheers!
Old 2 weeks ago
  #25
Quote:
Originally Posted by djanogil View Post
Thanks for your advice,
the cue mix console from Lynx does the job,
and I found a trick to use reverb from PT, using pre-fader sends and muting the track, this way I have the direct signal via the Lynx mixer plus the reverb from PT.

Reverb is of course what most vocalists ask for when tracking, so this scenario is ok although I have to change my reverb sends from pre to post after each take which is not ideal.
I don't do live bands as my studio is too small,
so I guess I can live with that setup for now..

Cheers!
Alternate workflow - have a reverb with the input as your hardware input, and the reverb on the insert, set 100% wet. Balance this to taste with your direct signal from the cue mixer, and leave the channel set post fade to the original verb.

So on playback, you just mute the direct verb channel.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
Alternate workflow - have a reverb with the input as your hardware input, and the reverb on the insert, set 100% wet. Balance this to taste with your direct signal from the cue mixer, and leave the channel set post fade to the original verb.

So on playback, you just mute the direct verb channel.
That’s great I’ll try it next.

Cheers
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