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HDX was announced almost 8 years ago - is there a replacement in the wings?
Old 15th February 2019
  #1
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basehead617's Avatar
HDX was announced almost 8 years ago - is there a replacement in the wings?

It's been a long time since HDX debuted (AES 2011).

Obviously many companies have released significant hardware upgrades to interfaces and DSP for both Mac and PC since then.

Do you guys think the successor to HDX is coming soon or will Avid move toward native support only?
Old 16th February 2019
  #2
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JCBigler's Avatar
Only Avid knows, and they won’t say anything until they announce it.

My guess is that something is in the works. Whether that’s another PCIe card or a self contained box with a USB3 or Thunderbolt port is up for debate.

And I wonder if the new voice count limits and voice packs are going to play a role in whatever is finally released?
Old 16th February 2019
  #3
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bzone's Avatar
 

HdX

Quote:
Originally Posted by basehead617 View Post
It's been a long time since HDX debuted (AES 2011).

Obviously many companies have released significant hardware upgrades to interfaces and DSP for both Mac and PC since then.

Do you guys think the successor to HDX is coming soon or will Avid move toward native support only?
Spoke to Avid at this years NAMM. They specifically told me that they support HDX in ten year cycles. So we have a few years left. They wouldn’t give any info on what the next step,would be.
Old 17th February 2019
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bzone View Post
Spoke to Avid at this years NAMM. They specifically told me that they support HDX in ten year cycles. So we have a few years left. They wouldn’t give any info on what the next step,would be.
10 years is what i was thinking too, based on past Avid experience. I have been wondering though if native is the future for them. I guess it depends how profitable the hardware is.
Old 17th February 2019
  #5
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Mikey MTC's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JCBigler View Post
My guess is that something is in the works. Whether that’s another PCIe card or a self contained box with a USB3 or Thunderbolt port is up for debate.
I very much doubt that a PCIe card would be involved. It's only supported on old non-current Macs. Of course PCs still support cards but is that enough?

I'm thinking Thunderbolt is the future, which is ironic for the masses of tower Macs still operating out there that don't support Thunderbolt!
Old 17th February 2019
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikey MTC View Post
I'm thinking Thunderbolt is the future, which is ironic for the masses of tower Macs still operating out there that don't support Thunderbolt!
And Therein lies the rock and a hard place that Avid is between.

Stay on PCIe and you support PCs, new and old, but only pre 2012 Macs. Move to Thunderbolt and you only support a small subset of PCs, and post-2012 Macs, but then you deprecate ALL of the old Macs that don’t have Thunderbolt and can’t have it added to them. Avid is basically f—-ked either way, unless they offer two options, like they did with the HD Native cards until recently.

And I don’t think that USB3, even USB3.1 gen 2 has the low latency that a DSP system would require.

...maybe a gigabit Ethernet based system...
Old 17th February 2019
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCBigler View Post
Stay on PCIe and you support PCs, new and old, but only pre 2012 Macs
Since nothing has been announced by Apple about the specs of the upcoming Mac Pro, I wouldn't say it's a sure thing they won't re-introduce motherboard slots of some kind. I feel like it's one of the things that has been complained about with the trashcan and one of the things they will consider when coming up with a new plan for professionals.

Also plenty of people use HDX cards with the trashcan mac pro and a chassis.
Old 17th February 2019
  #8
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JCBigler's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by basehead617 View Post
Since nothing has been announced by Apple about the specs of the upcoming Mac Pro, I wouldn't say it's a sure thing they won't re-introduce motherboard slots of some kind. I feel like it's one of the things that has been complained about with the trashcan and one of the things they will consider when coming up with a new plan for professionals.

Also plenty of people use HDX cards with the trashcan mac pro and a chassis.
That’s certainly true. And no one knows until they finally announce something.

But I think it’s unlikely. Apple has done away with PCIe slots and expandability on all of their systems: Mac Pro, iMac, Mac Mini, Mac Books...I just can’t see them coming out and admitting that they screwed up and to give them a chance this time with their new system with one PCIe slot.

I think it’s more likely that they will come up with some even more obtuse expansion option, or maybe an expansion chassis ala the Sonet or some bolt on chassis or other equally ******** method.

The expansion chassis is only a solution for the PCIe cards on a Thunderbolt equipped Mac. But it’s hella expensive. You have an $8,000 Mac Pro trash can, and in order to use your HDX card you have to add another $1,500 for the expansion chassis on top of that. And then it’s just another dongle hanging off your computer, like the laptops that Apple now builds that require $200 in adapters to work with the rest of the world. It’s dumb.

Or you can build or buy a PC for $3,000 that is more powerful than than the Mac Pro, has all the proper expansion ports and slots and put that HDX card right inside the computer and not have to have an extra thing hanging off the computer between your recording system. It’s much more elegant.

For Avid, Ethernet is probably the answer. Even the iMacs and Mac Pros included an ethernet port. And I think it will offer the low latency necessary for DSP.
Old 17th February 2019
  #9
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bzone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by basehead617 View Post
10 years is what i was thinking too, based on past Avid experience. I have been wondering though if native is the future for them. I guess it depends how profitable the hardware is.
There is a new chip set out there that developers are utilizing already I believe. Since the new 2019 software is going to allow more voices for HD or HDX, I think Avid may be experimenting for the future. Do to the fact that not everyone will have the fastest computer and post guys need to be satisfied as well as film people. I think Avid will come up with a box with dsp for the HD users. It will probably be Ethernet, fire wire is dead already for the future. Or a similar connection to your ADC’s that HDX has now.
Old 21st February 2019
  #10
I would bet the next realtime DSP will be something one can put on an ethernet network.
DigiGrid is really nice in this regard. Need faster server, get one. Rest stays the same.
(Or Avid could just implement SoundGrid into MTRX
Old 26th April 2019
  #11
Lives for gear
DSP box with TB3 and Ethernet. Super quiet fan. Ability to set for conversion and driver delay for any i/o. Also never happen :-).

OK - the box with 2in/8out (and/or 8in/8out) + DigiLink for more i/o. Have small PCIe to TB3 card for hard core PC folk
Old 28th April 2019
  #12
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T_R_S's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCBigler View Post
The expansion chassis is only a solution for the PCIe cards on a Thunderbolt equipped Mac. But it’s hella expensive. You have an $8,000 Mac Pro trash can, and in order to use your HDX card you have to add another $1,500 for the expansion chassis on top of that. And then it’s just another dongle hanging off your computer, like the laptops that Apple now builds that require $200 in adapters to work with the rest of the world.
yo need to seriously update your google app
$8000 for a Mac pro ?
Nope not even close
https://www.apple.com/shop/product/G...a3d46bdca8fe85

$1500.00 for a expansion Chassis once again not even close

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sonnet-Echo...IAAOSwzgBY3UJg

$200.00 for TB 3 adapter ???
Nope
once again you're pulling numbers out of your a$$
https://www.apple.com/shop/product/M...bolt-2-adapter


FWIW TB3 is coming like it or not what great about TB its backwards and forwards compatible

PCIe is not going away the faster SSD drives are PCIe and not SATA
HDX is not going away anytime soon
Old 4th May 2019
  #13
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

I can offer a few thoughts to consider:

Avid's live sound consoles all use HDX running on Windows. The broadcast industry also runs mostly on Windows.

Apple needs a new workstation to support video production because it now requires frequent video card updates for new formats.

When HDX came out, the transition to 64 bit was on the horizon which meant TDM would become obsolete. Today, there is nothing quite like that looming over Avid's decisions.
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