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Avid protools 2019 .... ?
Old 14th January 2019
  #31
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dandeurloo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Con View Post
Unless the i/o restriction is removed I won't really care
This! I have stopped updating until they remove these stupid limitations.
Old 14th January 2019
  #32
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projektk's Avatar
 

Regardless of what happens we are living in an amazing time to be an engineer.
Old 14th January 2019
  #33
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~ufo~'s Avatar
I just want to say that I'm happy that PT is finally performing well again on MacOS (HS) on my ageing 3.33 6-core cheese grater with HD Native.
Mind you, if I leave wifi on, each recording pass will result in a show stopping -9093, but providing WIFI and other phone homey stuff like dropbox, notification center etc are turned off, I can once again quite reliably record at 96k 64 buffer. This was virtually impossible for me (and I'm sue others too) on Mac since at least somewhere in PT12, maybe late PT11.

Now, there are certainly features that I'm waiting for to be added to PT (multichannel side chain, full ADC on side chains, folder tracks, pregen to name but a few), but I for one am happy that they finally allocated some substantial engineering resources to working out the kinks in stead of busting out new features.

I know that stability upgrades cause the people waiting for features to hit the streets, but there's always one camp pissed with an update.
They simply cannot apply the majority of their resources to both.
For me, stability on Mac has been the main for the last few years, up to the point where PT on MacOS was simply unusable for me to record/produce on. So I tried windows 8.1 on my machine and that did run perfectly acceptable.

The reason why I tell this story is simply to say that I for one am happy that the last few PT2018 updates have brought minor (but very practical) new features, but have been mainly focussed on stability, which is what it needed most, if you ask me.

Thanks Avid, I've been relentlessly in touch with them, sharing my findings/tests and I like to think I helped them just a little to sort these problems out.
Old 14th January 2019
  #34
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Mike O's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ~ufo~ View Post
I just want to say that I'm happy that PT is finally performing well again on MacOS (HS) on my ageing 3.33 6-core cheese grater with HD Native.
I agree. Would you mind sharing a few more details as I have the same aging Mac?

1) Exactly which version of PT 2018 are you currently using?

2) Exactly which version High Sierra?

3) What graphics card are you using?

Thanks!
Old 14th January 2019
  #35
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~ufo~'s Avatar
1. I just tested .12. Previously I had found that .10 seemed slightly less stable than .7 but that could’ve been a coincidence since I only tested about ten takes on each and .10 had one 9093 more than .7. Could be chance...
On .12 I tested 7 takes, with WiFi off, all takes ran over 6 minutes at which point I manually terminated recording. With WiFi on, each of the seven takes stopped recording with a 9093 error within 30 seconds of hitting record. I don’t remember it ever being such a night and day difference.

2. 10.13.6

3. I don’t know which GPU right now, it’s whatever came stock with it in 2012. 6-core 3.33. I didn’t upgrade.

Hope this helps.
Old 14th January 2019
  #36
Gear Head
 
anaudiopro's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Oracle View Post
You will be!
So will they just be announcing it and then releasing it 6 months later?
Old 14th January 2019
  #37
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projektk's Avatar
 

I think Avid should develop a CAD software and call it Digidesign, come on that's gold.
Old 16th January 2019
  #38
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TS-12's Avatar
People still use protools ??
Old 16th January 2019
  #39
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by TS-12 View Post
People still use protools ??
only the majority of working engineers. crazy right?
Old 16th January 2019
  #40
Gear Addict
 
adam_w's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Oracle View Post
Your wish may just come true!
Hmm....didn't that go away in 2018.12 ? Did for me!
Old 16th January 2019
  #41
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wavewalker View Post
Are the HD cards still necessary
considered the power of latest Intel cpu ?


Quote:
Originally Posted by World Studios View Post
The short answer is ”no”. For a select few it may be “yes”.
i agree about …
as i seen various pro tools user run native on intel cpu DAW
and laptop too …… of course
sessions with 6 , 8 , 12 ,16 tracks ….

without any issue

then a big part of users that in the past need HD or Mix cards
today can do many of works with only the computer…

then no more new version of cards ?
Old 16th January 2019
  #42
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World Studios's Avatar
I don’t think that Avid will release any new cards. They will not sell many. I, for one, would not buy anything like that again. I have so many issues with my HDX system and I doubt that I actually gain anything from using it. The communication between the cpu and the card uses so much extra power that it probably ends up the same. I have all sorts of latency issues, with live keyboards especially. If it got stolen, I would not buy it again.

Last edited by World Studios; 17th January 2019 at 10:28 AM..
Old 16th January 2019
  #43
Gear Addict
 
Dan Eriksson's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Rosebrook View Post
They abandoned Deck decades ago....
Pro Deck, Pro Edit, Turbosynth, it's been a while
Old 16th January 2019
  #44
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elambo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by projektk View Post
Regardless of what happens we are living in an amazing time to be an engineer.
True, but music doesn't necessarily benefit from that. It's becoming an industry of presets, and plugins that analyze and calculate for us, outputting "average" and "common" parameters instead of setting a path toward creative mixes.

The engineer should still lead the charge, with his/her palette of software and hardware acting as tools, but what I'm starting to see more and more or is less-experienced engineers allowing the tools to guide them toward passable but uninteresting mixes which don't necessarily cater to the song.

It still holds true that a great engineer with sub-par tools will run circles around a mediocre engineer with great tools. The best scenario, of course, is great engineer + great tools, and, yes, it's a wonderful time in the history of audio to be able to put those two together.
Old 16th January 2019
  #45
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elambo's Avatar
HDX has its unique benefits but it's getting tougher to sell (and tougher to use). I don't expect new cards.
Old 16th January 2019
  #46
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TS-12's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by citrusonic View Post
only the majority of working engineers. crazy right?
this is not 1995...
Old 16th January 2019
  #47
I'm sick of Avid and finally at a point where dumping them is a feasible option for me.

If anyone wants a smokin' deal on 2018 Ultimate or an HDIO 16x16 or Native TB, I've got them for sale here.
Old 16th January 2019
  #48
Quote:
Originally Posted by elambo View Post
HDX has its unique benefits but it's getting tougher to sell (and tougher to use). I don't expect new cards.
elambo, in which way do you mean tougher to use?
Old 16th January 2019
  #49
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TS-12 View Post
this is not 1995...
Say what you want, but it is still the standard for many (and most of the big) commercial studios & productions in music & post.

NO, this does not mean that all professionals use Pro Tools.
NO, this does not mean, that Pro Tools is the best.
Old 16th January 2019
  #50
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TS-12's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by krabbencutter View Post
Say what you want, but it is still the standard for many (and most of the big) commercial studios & productions in music & post.

NO, this does not mean that all professionals use Pro Tools.
NO, this does not mean, that Pro Tools is the best.
in North America Maybe..
not in the rest of the world tho
Old 16th January 2019
  #51
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~ufo~'s Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bambamboom View Post
I'm sick of Avid and finally at a point where dumping them is a feasible option for me.
What will you be replacing PT with?
Old 16th January 2019
  #52
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~ufo~ View Post
What will you be replacing PT with?
Logic, and replacing HD IO with Apollo X

PT 2018 was solid, and I think the HD IO sounds fantastic, but given the Avid lock-in it's gotta go. Been a PT primary user since version 7, but I am really sick of paying the "Avid tax" and enduring all of their lock-in and subscription tactics.

Avid doesn't seem to care about smaller studios IMO.
Old 16th January 2019
  #53
Quote:
Originally Posted by elambo View Post
HDX has its unique benefits but it's getting tougher to sell (and tougher to use). I don't expect new cards.

I expect new cards... but I maybe a little optimistic. Perhaps 'cards' isn't the right word, either. HDX and the way Pro Tools implements DSP is extremely unique. It would be rather pathetic if Avid were to just toss it all into the 'too hard basket', given the benefits and potential it still has. It would be even more pathetic, given how much users pay each year in support plan too.

Native has certainly gotten more powerful, but we still very much exist in an industry that is underpinned by DSP in one form or another. Most audio interface manufacturers have DSP or FPGA technology implemented in their devices to provide low latency monitoring. Avid is ultimately getting it's arse kicked by manufacturers offering solutions to the same problem in far more accessible, portable and forward thinking form factors.

The whole 'card' form is thirty years old and should be dead by now. Thunderbolt 3 is everywhere. Apple hasn't made a computer with a PCIe slot for 6 years. A HDX card is pretty damn cheap, but to use it on a modern system you need to spend an extra 50% of the purchase price on peripherals just to use it. It's... stupid. If Avid re-bundled HDX technology into portable, UAD like devices with similar price tags, allowed the DSP to function with Pro Tools Vanilla, and allowed users to choose whether that DSP was used for the full mix engine or just for plugin processing...

It would be a game changer, and a complete reinvigoration for Pro Tools.
Old 16th January 2019
  #54
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HoPMiX's Avatar
Just renewed all my ultimate subs and adding a second mix room between now and June so any news is good news. Would love to see new DSP hardware. We currently use Apollo for the benefit of tracking thru plugs at low latency. This new room will be focused mainly on audio post with a M10 and all PT hardware. CMon Avid.
Old 17th January 2019
  #55
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weezul's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by LDStudios View Post
The whole 'card' form is thirty years old and should be dead by now. Apple hasn't made a computer with a PCIe slot for 6 years.
They can pry my RME PayDAT card from my cold dead hands. Never used an interface with better stability or latency. I'll keep building hackintosh machines until it's no longer possible. In all fairness I struggled with crap USB and FW interfaces for about 7 years before I went PCIe. I won't go back until I'm forced to, which won't be any time soon. PCIe might be dead in apple's eyes but in the general world of computing it looks like it's here to stay. Basically as long as graphics cards are.

Will be interesting to see what the next mac pro has in terms of PCIe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TS-12 View Post
People still use protools ??
I think you're lost. Did you read the thread title?

Anyway, i'm bound by 10 years of practice and muscle memory of using Pro Tools. I can't really change to something else and expect clients to sit there while I **** around in some other DAW doing simple edits that I can do in seconds on Pro Tools. I'd probably have to lock myself away in a room and practice full time in reaper for a year to match my pro tools speed and ability, and i'm not even that much of a whizz compared to some.... I don't think anyone denies Pro Tools has it's own problems, but it is definitely universal in all the other studios I engineer for.
Old 17th January 2019
  #56
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projektk's Avatar
 

I do appreciate you acknowledged my post but to simplify it I just mean it's great because when I started out all I could afford was a 1st generation mbox that came with Pro Tools LE 6 or 5 I do t remember. All I had were the stock in the box plug ins. Everything is just so affordable and accessible for the digital engineer.

I love analog but analog is why I love to be exclusively digital as possible. I'm a hobbyist so I experiment a lot, only mix my projects on $20 headphones. Only use presets on one song vs individual unique settings on another. But I agree with you many people are getting lazy. I mean I use vocalign and revoice, call it a great tool but it's a lazy tool lol we creatively call it a time saver right.

I know that's a little different but overall my post originally isn't about engineer habits, it's just amazing we live in a time that if you love analog gear it's still being made, if you love software algorithms there's tons of amazing options.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elambo View Post
True, but music doesn't necessarily benefit from that. It's becoming an industry of presets, and plugins that analyze and calculate for us, outputting "average" and "common" parameters instead of setting a path toward creative mixes.

The engineer should still lead the charge, with his/her palette of software and hardware acting as tools, but what I'm starting to see more and more or is less-experienced engineers allowing the tools to guide them toward passable but uninteresting mixes which don't necessarily cater to the song.

It still holds true that a great engineer with sub-par tools will run circles around a mediocre engineer with great tools. The best scenario, of course, is great engineer + great tools, and, yes, it's a wonderful time in the history of audio to be able to put those two together.
Old 17th January 2019
  #57
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elambo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMIEL View Post
elambo, in which way do you mean tougher to use?
Tougher to sell as a new product that someone might "need" because computers are getting faster, latency is getting lower, and newer plugins don't seem quick to adopt the HDX format.
Old 17th January 2019
  #58
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by weezul View Post
I think you're lost. Did you read the thread title?
I am certain that he did read it. Like a UV light to a mosquito, the words "Pro Tools" drew him here.

I do the same thing. Even though I don't use Logic myself, whenever I see a thread title with "Logic" in it, I jump in to that thread, and bomb it with some extremely un-clever "Logic sucks" kind of remarks.

Old 17th January 2019
  #59
Gear Guru
 
jwh1192's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~ufo~ View Post
1. I just tested .12. Previously I had found that .10 seemed slightly less stable than .7 but that could’ve been a coincidence since I only tested about ten takes on each and .10 had one 9093 more than .7. Could be chance...
On .12 I tested 7 takes, with WiFi off, all takes ran over 6 minutes at which point I manually terminated recording. With WiFi on, each of the seven takes stopped recording with a 9093 error within 30 seconds of hitting record. I don’t remember it ever being such a night and day difference.

2. 10.13.6

3. I don’t know which GPU right now, it’s whatever came stock with it in 2012. 6-core 3.33. I didn’t upgrade.

Hope this helps.
GPU is 5770 i beleive ... i have the same Computer in storage ... when i get it bakc up in new place i will try HS .. i stayed on 10.12.6 before it was stored ...

really good news to hear about HS !!! thank you for sharing ..
Old 17th January 2019
  #60
Quote:
Originally Posted by weezul View Post
They can pry my RME PayDAT card from my cold dead hands. Never used an interface with better stability or latency. I'll keep building hackintosh machines until it's no longer possible. In all fairness I struggled with crap USB and FW interfaces for about 7 years before I went PCIe. I won't go back until I'm forced to, which won't be any time soon. PCIe might be dead in apple's eyes but in the general world of computing it looks like it's here to stay. Basically as long as graphics cards are.

Will be interesting to see what the next mac pro has in terms of PCIe.
The old PCIe format may not be dead, but it is definitely slipping to the realm of niche... just like HDX and RME PCIe stuff is.

It's a misnomer to suggest that high performance is somehow related to that old motherboard edge connection form factor. It may have been true in 2010, but it is extremely far from true in 2019. So much so, that you, or I, or anyone has had the ability to use a RayDat card or HDX card with a computer that has ZERO PCIe slots on the motherboard for over half a decade now. Half a decade!

There is no prerequisite or requirement to use that old PCIe edge connection to achieve PCIe performance in 2019. The old PCIe format is rubbish given the state of modern computing. I love my 2010 Mac Pro, but it is an ageing, old, heavy, hot running beast. Today I can replace it with something the size of two of it's hard drive bays... and gain a huge performance boost in the process. The game has changed, and companies like RME and Avid need to change with it.

Thunderbolt is the future for one reason, and one reason alone. It can neatly provide PCIe performance to a computer of any size. The old PCIe form factor cannot.
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