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Digi Avid Control 24 in 2017...??? Control Surfaces
Old 16th December 2017
  #1
Digi Avid Control 24 in 2017...???

So that's it huh, the old 2000(ish) Control 24 is just a boat anchor now. Like $500 installed in a nice desk now? Insane. There was a brand new one in our 5.1 scoring room in college, I can't believe it. I know, it's just a big mouse anyway with no preamps or analog signal path of any kind but just saying; look what tethering your customers to your hardware does, just another 100 pounds of metal and plastic, floating in a sea of un-supported hardware, destined for total abandonment with only a prayer the DIY community can save her in the clutch. I was thinking of just picking up a couple for $500 ea and build out a 5.1/pre-pro studio with them. Just forget about collaborating between anyone who has higher than PT10.

There's got to be a better way, that board wasn't really so bad as a digital mixer (as long as it isn't falling apart like many of them have long ago). It's so much more fun to mix musically on ANY board than with a mouse anyday and it was really intuitively designed for routing, bussing, plugin integration and I/O flexibility. I know the new C24 is analog but will it be forwards compatible? Probably for a few years yes, then... another boat anchor. Kinda a deterrent as an investment, no?!

How ironic, that this thing was rendered worthless by the same company that built it. Kinda screws the old buyers on resale too... like massively. Not a good ROI look for studios, in hindsight DIY community should jump on this and save the old bitties! There's gotta be a patch someone can write that makes latest PT work on her and restore her market value.
Old 17th December 2017
  #2
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PdotDdot's Avatar
Remember, desks like this are primarily software / hardware and software and hardware is designed to be replaced frequently - that keeps software / hardware staffs in business. It is sad but true.
Old 17th December 2017
  #3
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Brent Hahn's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jml designs View Post
... I know the new C24 is analog...
It is? I thought both the Control 24 and C24 were control surfaces, not mixers.
Old 17th December 2017
  #4
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Sigma's Avatar
dude your neumann quote is that about the 184 abomination???
Old 17th December 2017
  #5
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Pretty sure Brent's quote is about the TLM 103...

Also: there is a similar analog side of both the Control 24 and the C/24...
they have 16 preamps and an analog master monitor section, right? So... to say they are only a control surface isn't totally accurate.
Old 17th December 2017
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mertmo View Post
Pretty sure Brent's quote is about the TLM 103...

Also: there is a similar analog side of both the Control 24 and the C/24...
they have 16 preamps and an analog master monitor section, right? So... to say they are only a control surface isn't totally accurate.
Well, yeah, my HUI (still alive!!) has a monitor section and, inexplicably, two mic pres stuck in the back and connected nowhere, but I still think of it as "only a control surface."
Old 17th December 2017
  #7
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I use mine for a control surface to track in 10. I've been mixing in 12. Not only losing the control surface in 12 but also a lot of 32 bit plugs that I will probably never re-buy. Luckily I bought mine at a really good price and it's served me well for years. Never ran audio through it though. Reviews aren't stellar regarding it's audio prowess. Still it's just a ethernet connection, which is available in 12. I think Avid could have ported it over. I would certainly pay for software that allowed it to work under 12.
L.
Old 17th December 2017
  #8
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Yes Avid bricked the Control|24 and the Pro Control. This has been discussed to death but there's no doubt those two desks use the same Diginet protocol as Icon, 003, Command 8, and C24 all of which are still working in PT12. They could have ported the controller profiles to 64 bit and declared 'no support' but the mis-management at Avid decided otherwise. They have the source code.
Perhaps some sort of wrapper (inter process) to use the 32bit library profiles in the 64 bit process?
Anyway I'm camped on Pro Tools 10HD and intend to stay there for as long as possible so I can continue to use my 24 channel Pro Control which still works very well.
I run some large sessions (audio only, no VIs) on that system including multi stem scoring no problem.
Besides, paying for the privilege of being a beta tester for Avid isn't worth it.

Last edited by Brian Campbell; 17th December 2017 at 10:38 PM..
Old 17th December 2017
  #9
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Ahh Yes! I was just thinking about this.. I too have a rig maxed out due to the control 24's limitations.. come on geeks! you got this! ..if someone can turn a X32 into a light board, you guys can help us out on this for sure!..im sure we will all pay (a little) ...other wise..i'm just going to build a new rig and make this my "B" room set up
Old 18th December 2017
  #10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lenzo View Post
I use mine for a control surface to track in 10. I've been mixing in 12. Not only losing the control surface in 12 but also a lot of 32 bit plugs that I will probably never re-buy. Luckily I bought mine at a really good price and it's served me well for years. Never ran audio through it though. Reviews aren't stellar regarding it's audio prowess. Still it's just a ethernet connection, which is available in 12. I think Avid could have ported it over. I would certainly pay for software that allowed it to work under 12.
L.
Well said & I totally agree. Seems to me this is not only sad for those who spent all that money on one a few short years ago, but what a massive amount of wasteful pollution. They certainly could have easily coded a patch that would allow latest versions of PT to run smoothly on this board, it's just a big mouse after all. I really think the DIY software community could save this old console! I'd LOVE to see that happen, it's a great ol surface
Old 18th December 2017
  #11
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcwiz View Post
Yes Avid bricked the Control|24 and the Pro Control. This has been discussed to death but there's no doubt those two desks use the same Diginet protocol as Icon, 003, Command 8, and C24 all of which are still working in PT12. They could have ported the controller profiles to 64 bit and declared 'no support' but the mis-management at Avid decided otherwise. They have the source code.
Perhaps some sort of wrapper (inter process) to use the 32bit library profiles in the 64 bit process?
Anyway I'm camped on Pro Tools 10HD and intend to stay there for as long as possible so I can continue to use my 24 channel Pro Control which still works very well.
I run some large sessions (audio only, no VIs) on that system including multi stem scoring no problem.
Besides, paying for the privilege of being a beta tester for Avid isn't worth it.
Hiya bcwiz, can I just ask then; what do you do (if you run into this problem with clients and colleuges) when you need to work back and forth collaboratively. If other are on the latest version, how do you manage files? Do you have a workaround or do you not really deal with that often enough to be an issue? Thanks
Old 18th December 2017
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jml designs View Post
Hiya bcwiz, can I just ask then; what do you do (if you run into this problem with clients and colleuges) when you need to work back and forth collaboratively. If other are on the latest version, how do you manage files? Do you have a workaround or do you not really deal with that often enough to be an issue? Thanks
I get material from all manner of platforms (Cubase, Logic, etc) so the workflows don't change for PT10, 11 or 12.
If sharing mix sessions with another Pro Tools user the issues are more about HD or not, matching plugins, and file formats.

I do a lot of work in tv/film post so I get recordings from Pro Tools 7 thru 12, no problem.
Old 19th December 2017
  #13
I loved my 24 but when I switched to PT11, it turned into a writing surface. I had purchased it for about $1200 and sold it around that price before PT12 came out. I'm still using 11 and don't plan on switching to 12 unless forced to.
Old 19th December 2017
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dethbyoogabooga View Post
I loved my 24 but when I switched to PT11, it turned into a writing surface. I had purchased it for about $1200 and sold it around that price before PT12 came out. I'm still using 11 and don't plan on switching to 12 unless forced to.
I have 10 at the studio and 12 on my lap at home..and I love 12.. I cant wait to switch for good..but I love using my c24 ..so...
Old 20th December 2017
  #15
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcwiz View Post
I get material from all manner of platforms (Cubase, Logic, etc) so the workflows don't change for PT10, 11 or 12.
If sharing mix sessions with another Pro Tools user the issues are more about HD or not, matching plugins, and file formats.

I do a lot of work in tv/film post so I get recordings from Pro Tools 7 thru 12, no problem.
Sorry to keep pickin your brain, can I also ask; what exactly do you do when you get that PT 12 session file? How do you set that up so you can use the old c24 surface, I mean to say, what's your procedure there? Thanks man, I really appreciate it. I'm seriously considering getting one to use solely for Prepro at that price but I need to figure out if PT 10 can still work whereas I get a ton of PT 12 sessions sent (most of my work actually)
Old 20th December 2017
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jml designs View Post
Sorry to keep pickin your brain, can I also ask; what exactly do you do when you get that PT 12 session file? How do you set that up so you can use the old c24 surface? Thanks man, I really appreciate it. I'm seriously considering getting one to use solely for Prepro at that price but I need to figure out if PT 10 can still work whereas I get a ton of PT 12 sessions sent (most of my work actually)
I use a Pro Control but it doesn't matter as far as Pro Tools is concerned.
I think the only real compatibility problem with older PT versions would be with PT12 clip based effects, so you would have to get the sender to commit those. If you get a PT12 session with just the audio and no plugins then there's no issue but that's true if someone sends a PT10 session. If you want to exchange sessions with others that include plugins then you need to agree on a common set of plugs regardless of which version you use. If someone sends you a session to mix it's common to ask for raw audio, no effects or print the processed tracks but include the unprocessed as well. If you're overdubbing some parts then they could just send some stems.
Besides, the bleeding edge ain't all it's cracked up to be...
Old 20th December 2017
  #17
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Brent Hahn's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bcwiz View Post
If you want to exchange sessions with others that include plugins then you need to agree on a common set of plugs regardless of which version you use. If someone sends you a session to mix it's common to ask for raw audio, no effects or print the processed tracks but include the unprocessed as well. If you're overdubbing some parts then they could just send some stems.
Besides, the bleeding edge ain't all it's cracked up to be...
I'm following along in this thread and realizing that maybe once a couple years ago someone wanted me to work from their actual session, but aside from that I've never done it. And in that one instance, it was no big help.

When either uploading to an ftp or handing off a flash drive, working from the session never seems to enter the conversation. Is my experience unusual?
Old 20th December 2017
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
I'm following along in this thread and realizing that maybe once a couple years ago someone wanted me to work from their actual session, but aside from that I've never done it. And in that one instance, it was no big help.

When either uploading to an ftp or handing off a flash drive, working from the session never seems to enter the conversation. Is my experience unusual?
I would guess not. Most of the music tracks I get are from other platforms so the tracks will be wave files with a common start time and a midi track for tempo. If I get a Pro Tools session I'm just importing the tracks into my templates anyway.

I worked with a composer where I would mix at my place and then go to his place for playback. We used a common set of plugins and went back and forth between Windows to Mac using PT. That was unusual.
Old 10th January 2018
  #19
So I’m here at an ADR Studio and he’s running an HD rig with an old command 8. He’s running the latest PT12 something and it works fine, track name labeling and all other functionality. Makes me think that an old control 24 (this command 8 was made the same era, if not year) would actually work...?
Old 11th January 2018
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jml designs View Post
So I’m here at an ADR Studio and he’s running an HD rig with an old command 8. He’s running the latest PT12 something and it works fine, track name labeling and all other functionality. Makes me think that an old control 24 (this command 8 was made the same era, if not year) would actually work...?
Nope,Avid refused to compile 64 bit versions of the controller files for Control|24 and Pro Control starting with PT11.
Same Diginet protocol as Command 8, C24, Digi002/003 and Icon.
Another one of Avid's brilliant market strategies...

Last edited by Brian Campbell; 11th January 2018 at 04:49 AM.. Reason: no expletives
Old 12th January 2018
  #21
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcwiz View Post
Nope,Avid refused to compile 64 bit versions of the controller files for Control|24 and Pro Control starting with PT11.
Same Diginet protocol as Command 8, C24, Digi002/003 and Icon.
Another one of Avid's brilliant market strategies...
bcwiz, I have read your other posts and really appreciate your time trying to get to the bottom of this, maybe you can speak directly on this:

I was at an ultra modern ProTools HD studio doing 5.1 and ADR work here in Manhattan NYC yesterday that HAD a Command 8 (same era as Control 24 you have) and he had High Sierra running ProTools 12.8.3. His Command 8 (the smaller version to what you have, made the same year though) was running 100% smoothly. Even the little LCD windows read the track names and flying faders were flyin' with no issues. How can this be?? He said he never heard of any issues or updates needed or anything. I even told him about you and your c24 that didn't work. He said absolutely not, that they work fine. I ardently disagreed based on your post. Now I'm just confused.

Also, what do you mean, the bleeding edge, you mean the latest PT? I would normally agree but the PT 12 features are outstanding. Latency and software bugs are still egregious though... so I agree w you there 110%. Great thread btw thank you
Old 12th January 2018
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jml designs View Post
bcwiz, I have read your other posts and really appreciate your time trying to get to the bottom of this, maybe you can speak directly on this:

I was at an ultra modern ProTools HD studio doing 5.1 and ADR work here in Manhattan NYC yesterday that HAD a Command 8 (same era as Control 24 you have) and he had High Sierra running ProTools 12.8.3. His Command 8 (the smaller version to what you have, made the same year though) was running 100% smoothly. Even the little LCD windows read the track names and flying faders were flyin' with no issues. How can this be?? He said he never heard of any issues or updates needed or anything. I even told him about you and your c24 that didn't work. He said absolutely not, that they work fine. I ardently disagreed based on your post. Now I'm just confused.

Also, what do you mean, the bleeding edge, you mean the latest PT? I would normally agree but the PT 12 features are outstanding. Latency and software bugs are still egregious though... so I agree w you there 110%. Great thread btw thank you
Control|24, Pro Control, Command 8 and C24 are different controllers. Although they share the same Diginet protocol there are different 'personality' files for each.
With the launch of PT11 Avid left out the controller files for the Pro Control and the Control|24 so they do not work. Command 8, C24, still work.

I have a Pro Control running on PT HD10.

The performance boost of 64bit PT would be great however I make a living using PT and version 10 does what I need and doesn't get in the way.
I don't want to pay Avid for the privilege of doing their beta testing and QC.
Old 12th January 2018
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bcwiz View Post
Control|24, Pro Control, Command 8 and C24 are different controllers. Although they share the same Diginet protocol there are different 'personality' files for each.
With the launch of PT11 Avid left out the controller files for the Pro Control and the Control|24 so they do not work. Command 8, C24, still work.

I have a Pro Control running on PT HD10.

The performance boost of 64bit PT would be great however I make a living using PT and version 10 does what I need and doesn't get in the way.
I don't want to pay Avid for the privilege of doing their beta testing and QC.
^that's how I feel..but with a control 24.. we really need a wrapper - i'm sure someone can write one for 12..
Old 12th January 2018
  #24
Thanks bcwiz- I also agree w Rome, the diy community should jump on that... woth the cost of a control 24 around $800 now its a real shame they’re just being abandoned right and left. Thanks for everyone’s input. I’ll be waiting for someone to code that wrapper and in the meantime I’ll stick to my surface

Thx again!
Old 13th January 2018
  #25
It's unfortunate but since PT11's release date in June of 2013, the wrapper question has been asked but it has been 4 years. I think it has to do with source coding issue that we know Avid would keep it under lock and key.
Old 13th January 2018
  #26
Quote:
Originally Posted by dethbyoogabooga View Post
It's unfortunate but since PT11's release date in June of 2013, the wrapper question has been asked but it has been 4 years. I think it has to do with source coding issue that we know Avid would keep it under lock and key.
Wow that's insane. So they'll fill landfills with 150 pounds of metal and plastic willingly to sell a few new C24's. They claim to have let go of their old "enslavement" business model of the past in which they forced their hardware on their loyal software owners but this is just another example of their unchanged ethics. Every marketing person in the world knows that having the old ones in studios only sells their products, like having a Avid sales man in every control 24 studio. "Wow, you have an old Control 24 and it's running great? Cool maybe I should look into the new ones if this old one works so well for you!"
They are so backwards yet so fundamentally human (Ie: basing actions on fear of loss, fear of not having market control). I hope they read this and realize how counter intuitive it is to go the way of greed over usefulness, compassion and brand support, in hopes to sell a couple more new C24's. This thread only exposes their horrible business ethics. How utterly ABSURD to destroy their own products to sell new products.
Old 13th January 2018
  #27
totally agree. PT11 was the first version that is stable for my setup and has all the bells and whistles I needed. I only wish that the 24 could've been compatible with just one more update. I was sad to see it go.
Personally, I'm done with Avid after PT11 stops working for me. Since it's now subscription based software, i'll just take my business elsewhere. Like logic where I can just buy it outright.
Old 14th January 2018
  #28
Quote:
Originally Posted by dethbyoogabooga View Post
”...Since it's now subscription based software, i'll just take my business elsewhere. Like logic where i can just buy it outright”.
avid i hope youre reading this. Wake up!!!!
Old 14th January 2018
  #29
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bcwiz View Post
Yes Avid bricked the Control|24 and the Pro Control. This has been discussed to death but there's no doubt those two desks use the same Diginet protocol as Icon, 003, Command 8, and C24 all of which are still working in PT12. They could have ported the controller profiles to 64 bit and declared 'no support' but the mis-management at Avid decided otherwise. They have the source code.
Perhaps some sort of wrapper (inter process) to use the 32bit library profiles in the 64 bit process?
Anyway I'm camped on Pro Tools 10HD and intend to stay there for as long as possible so I can continue to use my 24 channel Pro Control which still works very well.
I run some large sessions (audio only, no VIs) on that system including multi stem scoring no problem.
Besides, paying for the privilege of being a beta tester for Avid isn't worth it.
+1!

We're happy with PT HD 9 for our Control 24, via fast 3.4GHz i7 PC's with UAD Octo Cards, so we're not lacking in plugin power.

We use external PC's as VI Hosts, so we're not lacking for VI's either.

We do spend a little additional time rendering VI tracks, but otherwise we're more than happy (and we're surely not upgrading Pro Tools ever again).
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