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Is Protools the best sounding DAW?
Old 30th May 2016
  #1
Gear Head
 

Is Protools the best sounding DAW?

Hello there!

I, as many, compose, produce and mix. I've worked for probably more than 10 years with Logic. I hate Logic X but I'm still happy with Logic 9 Studio, I think it just works, it's easy, visually pleasant for me, and I think it sounds great.

Well, I work as a telecomunications engineer and do also freelances as a composer, producer, all that comes my way that has sound on it. I've decided to stop working as a telecomunications engineer and try to make all my income come from working full time with music and sound, I have to try. So, if you want to make a living with sound, it's good to know the standards.

My question is simple but not easy...sorry if you've discussed this on the past, it's a difficult search. Well, is the audio engine of Protools the best out there? Better than Logic, Ableton, Cubase, FL? I'm sure some of you have been on different studios with different setups and noticed differences in terms of sound quality.

For example I can say something is not right with Ableton for me, I use it live and the sound feels just weaker somehow...Logic gives me more safety, like it has a deeper low end. There is this talking around DAWs that always points to Protools not only because it's a standard but because I've read how people say it's the best sounding of them all.

What do you think?

Also, does it make any sense to produce on Logic, then mix on Protools?

Thanks!
Old 30th May 2016
  #2
Gear Maniac
 

I don't think there is any difference in the end product regardless of what you use
Old 30th May 2016
  #3
Gear Maniac
 
manowar84's Avatar
 

please stop with this s**t in 2016...
Old 30th May 2016
  #4
Lives for gear
 
LeMauce's Avatar
I'm going to be slay'd for saying this over here...

"It's the engineer, not the gear"
Old 30th May 2016
  #5
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by end View Post
Hello there!

Also, does it make any sense to produce on Logic, then mix on Protools?

Thanks!
There is a difference in sound between the two?
Old 30th May 2016
  #6
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by end View Post
sorry if you've discussed this on the past, it's a difficult search.
If by "difficult search" you mean "I didn't bother searching Gearslutz at all.", then 'yeah', it's really difficult.
Old 30th May 2016
  #7
Lives for gear
 
greggybud's Avatar
And null tests are always meaningless too...
Old 30th May 2016
  #8
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Is Protools the best sounding DAW?
The answer would have to be : YES !!!! and NO.

So, the DEFINITE answer would be...

Old 30th May 2016
  #9
Deleted User
Guest
IF there is a difference in the sound of various DAWs (and there is pretty good evidence that there really isn't) it probably won't be of a magnitude sufficient to make any real difference to the end product. This kind of thing has been discussed to death around here with nothing short of religious fervour on both sides.
Old 30th May 2016
  #10
Lives for gear
 
skiltrip's Avatar
Use whatever DAW let's you work most efficiently, and intuitively. This will allow you to make the best mixing decisions, and in turn, you'll have the best sounding results. Remember though, that it's you that produced the final results, not the DAW. Don't let it take the credit!
Old 30th May 2016
  #11
Gear Addict
 

The fact you are even asking this question shows you have not researched at all. Why? If you had, you would have some kind of idea of the reaction you would get. This thread is not going to go in the direction you were hoping for. Or maybe it is going in exactly the right direction you were hoping for.

You say that you are an engineer. You say you want to give up your job. I call shenanigans on an elaborate troll.

These threads were fun for a while after this question was answered. Anyone who had done a quick search would be able to tell that there is no difference at all between DAWs, at least not in any meaningful way. There are thousands of threads on this, why not revive one of them with your own thoughts on the matter, adding something to the argument yourself.

I'm sorry, I quite simply don't believe you are for real.

It's very disheartening to see well-natured souls taken advantage of by having their time wasted. One of the reasons I've stopped visiting audio forums and posting. Forums are a dying media and this is just another nail in its coffin.

So, I'm calling you out as a troll. I simply don't believe you are a telecoms engineer, composer and producer. If you were, you wouldn't have asked such a deliberately provocative question. This **** might be good for a laugh over at KVR or Audio*, but it won't win you any friends here - the largest music producers forum on the internet.

Really, you are a composer and a producer and you ask this question? How did you become a composer and a producer without knowing this? Did you really think you would get an answer about this in 2016? I don't think you did. I think you are deliberately trying to get a rise out of people. Stop it now. It's not funny and it's disruptive to an otherwise pretty well functioning forum. Every other thread at KVR these days seems to be a wind up along these lines. It wears you down after a while and you stop visiting audio forums because of **** like this.

So, you got your rise. I know how it goes from here. I know what you are going to say before you've even said it. There are only so many lines of attack open to you now - all well tried and tested and seen before. You couldn't even bother to do a variation on a theme and add a little spice to the format!

Don't give up your day job (and if your day job is trolling, then you'll have to do better at that as well).
Old 30th May 2016
  #12
Lives for gear
 

That last post has a lot of words in it
Old 31st May 2016
  #13
Lives for gear
 
loopy's Avatar
 

Go get em' VSTSlut !
I agree with you BTW.
Old 31st May 2016
  #14
Lives for gear
 

Depends on the cables you use.
Old 31st May 2016
  #15
Lives for gear
 

Lol. Again? Seriously.

Every Damn month.
Old 31st May 2016
  #16
Gear Nut
Nice bait
Old 31st May 2016
  #17
M2E
Lives for gear
 
M2E's Avatar
 

Pro Tools 4.2r2 had a really nice sound. The 888 converters were bad though.
The only way you could hear the true sound of the PT 4.2r2 sound was to wear headphones through the headphone jacks in the front.
People were connecting through the headphone jack.

Then came 5.0 and it got better.

5.1.3 was seriously the best of Pro Tools HD. The depth in that software was incredible and more detailed then even now. See if you can find some test demos on google.
They would not let you do mp3's then because they didn't want to downgrade the width and height on most reverbs like the incredible D-Verb 1.1 on PT 5.1.3r2.

Supposedly, Pro Tools 13 will go back to the 1622 sound quality and 96 i/o's depth. Man I miss the clarity in those units!!!

Marc
Old 31st May 2016
  #18
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tjoaudio View Post
Nice bait
is it?... is it really?...
Old 31st May 2016
  #19
Lives for gear
 
BM Grabber's Avatar
 

Choose the DAW that makes YOU feel better
Old 31st May 2016
  #20
Deleted 86c3d96
Guest
I notice slightly warmer midrange harmonics when I work with Pro Tools, but slightly richer bottom end with Logic. The highs are fantastic with both.
Old 31st May 2016
  #21
Lives for gear
In a word: No.

Very early in its history PT was one of the worst sounding DAWs. Fixed point math and a narrow data path. They got a lot better. Then with PT 11 they finally went to a floating point system, which is what most popular DAWs currently use.

Quote:
Originally Posted by end View Post
Hello there!

I, as many, compose, produce and mix. I've worked for probably more than 10 years with Logic. I hate Logic X but I'm still happy with Logic 9 Studio, I think it just works, it's easy, visually pleasant for me, and I think it sounds great.

Well, I work as a telecomunications engineer and do also freelances as a composer, producer, all that comes my way that has sound on it. I've decided to stop working as a telecomunications engineer and try to make all my income come from working full time with music and sound, I have to try. So, if you want to make a living with sound, it's good to know the standards.

My question is simple but not easy...sorry if you've discussed this on the past, it's a difficult search. Well, is the audio engine of Protools the best out there? Better than Logic, Ableton, Cubase, FL? I'm sure some of you have been on different studios with different setups and noticed differences in terms of sound quality.

For example I can say something is not right with Ableton for me, I use it live and the sound feels just weaker somehow...Logic gives me more safety, like it has a deeper low end. There is this talking around DAWs that always points to Protools not only because it's a standard but because I've read how people say it's the best sounding of them all.

What do you think?

Also, does it make any sense to produce on Logic, then mix on Protools?

Thanks!
Old 31st May 2016
  #22
Lives for gear
 
Ragan's Avatar
 

Given that thread-initiating-post, no, do not quit your job and try to be an engineer.
Old 31st May 2016
  #23
Gear Head
 

I wasn't expecting all this hate and mocking, really. More like a post with one answer that would die in a couple of days. Not gonna start quoting because it can get messy.

I am a real person and as I said in my first post I sense a noticeable difference when I work with Ableton and when I work with Logic. Don't ask me in which exact way but Ableton sounds like a toy in comparison with Logic (I'm exagerating here obviously). My problem is that I have never worked with Protools, so I don't have the criteria a lot of people here, who have been in many studios with different setups, may have. That's why I asked. I've heard out there the wonders of Protools and wanted the opinion of some of the wisest audio engineers I can find on the internet. Sorry for that.

I am sorry but trying to find a discussion like this is not that easy because under the world Protools+combinations there is a mess. Both here and on Google. Try searching "best sounding DAW", or "Protools vs Logic", the results are messy and outdated, usually done by newbies, which believe it or not, I am not. I just don't have experience with Protools, is it a crime or being unexperienced to ask another engineer about tools you don't know? I don't see why, really. For the kind of work I do I work alone, with my setup, at my studio. I don't usually share that space with any other engineers with whom I can discuss this kind of things. And for the little times I've had a beer with another audio geeks, sometimes you hear interesting stuff about this. About the audio engine of one DAW over the another, about plugins, all that.

That's why I came here and ask, because if you use all your time on forums on internet, you may know that here this has been discussed a thousand times. But I don't have that kind of time. Because yes, believe it or not, I have been working from 9 to 18 programming applications for banks in a big company, and doing some music for ads, film (short most, but still) and for my own band from 18 to 20, 21? That, the day I don't have to do stuff to not die (buy food, wash clothes, logistics in general), try to socialize a bit so I don't evolve into a full hermit or just rest because this rythm of life destroys me. And because that, and because I have been years having a bit of an income from music without even searching, I'm giving up my job as an telecommunications engineer because I don't like it and I have some savings, this is the moment. If without searching I've been making some money with music and sound, maybe if I put all my time into it I can make a humble living. Thanks for your wise words of not support, luckily I have no intentions on following any directions on some guy on the internet who critizes forums on internet because of discussions like this one, discussing on discussions like this one. Good job staying away from doing what you critize. And yes I am ready to fail, but still I have to try this.

So well, thanks a lot...what can I say. Sorry if I opened some kind of Pandora's box, it was my last intention. Just wanted to grab a bit of wisdom because I have a lot of respect for this forum and truly believe is full of audio wizards.

Regards and sorry for the long post...this troll is having some big changes in his life at the moment and had the need of explaining myself to some random guys I don't know. The mind is strange some times.
Old 31st May 2016
  #24
Lives for gear
 
Arionas's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by end View Post
Hello there!

I, as many, compose, produce and mix. I've worked for probably more than 10 years with Logic. I hate Logic X but I'm still happy with Logic 9 Studio, I think it just works, it's easy, visually pleasant for me, and I think it sounds great.

Well, I work as a telecomunications engineer and do also freelances as a composer, producer, all that comes my way that has sound on it. I've decided to stop working as a telecomunications engineer and try to make all my income come from working full time with music and sound, I have to try. So, if you want to make a living with sound, it's good to know the standards.

My question is simple but not easy...sorry if you've discussed this on the past, it's a difficult search. Well, is the audio engine of Protools the best out there? Better than Logic, Ableton, Cubase, FL? I'm sure some of you have been on different studios with different setups and noticed differences in terms of sound quality.

For example I can say something is not right with Ableton for me, I use it live and the sound feels just weaker somehow...Logic gives me more safety, like it has a deeper low end. There is this talking around DAWs that always points to Protools not only because it's a standard but because I've read how people say it's the best sounding of them all.

What do you think?

Also, does it make any sense to produce on Logic, then mix on Protools?

Thanks!
In my opinion my friend, your mistake is that you are asking for a ready solution about these things. As many people mentioned, keep working with what you have and bring musical results.
From the other hand, I cannot understand why some (or many people) have this hate for who believes that daws have a sound. (In my opinion and for my 25 years of professional recording and mixing in my studio, each daw has a noticeable different sound. Not better or worst, just different and nobody is gonna change my mind because first of all I trust my ears and my sense on sound and music.
I never talk unkind to who has a different opinion, because the audio "quality" subjects, have to be compared with the qualities of the person.
And for me, every different opinion is welcomed regardless if the subject has been discussed many times in the past.
Old 31st May 2016
  #25
M2E
Lives for gear
 
M2E's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drichard View Post
In a word: No.

Very early in its history PT was one of the worst sounding DAWs. Fixed point math and a narrow data path. They got a lot better. Then with PT 11 they finally went to a floating point system, which is what most popular DAWs currently use.
I agree to disagree.
Once Pro Tools went 64bit with Pro Tool 6, everything changed both in TDM and RTAS.
RTAS plugin have always ran at 32bit and most of them were running DP.
PT's was always 32bit as far as plugins.
Also, PT TDM system always was 56bit. Only 8 bits shy of 64bit.
So, sound wise, there was no difference.
Even to this day.

Up-sampling something from 24bit to 32bit is silly to me and doesn't make the audio any better period.

I agree that PT4 (16bit),5 was straight 24bit throughout but 6 changed the game. They just never really announced that PT's was 64bit out loud.

JusMyThoughts,

Marc
Old 31st May 2016
  #26
M2E
Lives for gear
 
M2E's Avatar
 

Hey end, just messing with you on my first post.

There should not be a difference at all.

The difference will be in convertors, sound cards, clocking and the such.

The quality of DAW's are so beyond what we know that it should be a no worry policy about getting a great sound.

I think once you learn the trade, you will see there is no difference.

I use currently, Pro Tools HD 8.1.1 & Pro Tools 11 & Logic Pro X and Akai MPC software with the Ren.

All sound great.

JusMyThoughts,

Marc
Old 31st May 2016
  #27
M2E
Lives for gear
 
M2E's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by end View Post
I wasn't expecting all this hate and mocking, really. More like a post with one answer that would die in a couple of days. Not gonna start quoting because it can get messy.

I am a real person and as I said in my first post I sense a noticeable difference when I work with Ableton and when I work with Logic. Don't ask me in which exact way but Ableton sounds like a toy in comparison with Logic (I'm exagerating here obviously). My problem is that I have never worked with Protools, so I don't have the criteria a lot of people here, who have been in many studios with different setups, may have. That's why I asked. I've heard out there the wonders of Protools and wanted the opinion of some of the wisest audio engineers I can find on the internet. Sorry for that.

I am sorry but trying to find a discussion like this is not that easy because under the world Protools+combinations there is a mess. Both here and on Google. Try searching "best sounding DAW", or "Protools vs Logic", the results are messy and outdated, usually done by newbies, which believe it or not, I am not. I just don't have experience with Protools, is it a crime or being unexperienced to ask another engineer about tools you don't know? I don't see why, really. For the kind of work I do I work alone, with my setup, at my studio. I don't usually share that space with any other engineers with whom I can discuss this kind of things. And for the little times I've had a beer with another audio geeks, sometimes you hear interesting stuff about this. About the audio engine of one DAW over the another, about plugins, all that.

That's why I came here and ask, because if you use all your time on forums on internet, you may know that here this has been discussed a thousand times. But I don't have that kind of time. Because yes, believe it or not, I have been working from 9 to 18 programming applications for banks in a big company, and doing some music for ads, film (short most, but still) and for my own band from 18 to 20, 21? That, the day I don't have to do stuff to not die (buy food, wash clothes, logistics in general), try to socialize a bit so I don't evolve into a full hermit or just rest because this rythm of life destroys me. And because that, and because I have been years having a bit of an income from music without even searching, I'm giving up my job as an telecommunications engineer because I don't like it and I have some savings, this is the moment. If without searching I've been making some money with music and sound, maybe if I put all my time into it I can make a humble living. Thanks for your wise words of not support, luckily I have no intentions on following any directions on some guy on the internet who critizes forums on internet because of discussions like this one, discussing on discussions like this one. Good job staying away from doing what you critize. And yes I am ready to fail, but still I have to try this.

So well, thanks a lot...what can I say. Sorry if I opened some kind of Pandora's box, it was my last intention. Just wanted to grab a bit of wisdom because I have a lot of respect for this forum and truly believe is full of audio wizards.

Regards and sorry for the long post...this troll is having some big changes in his life at the moment and had the need of explaining myself to some random guys I don't know. The mind is strange some times.
I have not read this whole post but I have skimmed through it and your right in your first few sentences.
I apologize for mocking and being stupid.

k, honestly, the reason you can't find new posts about this subject is because this as already been done to death.
So, everyone has come to a conclusion that there is no difference.
I think one site even did a DAW test. Check the name 3dbAudio or something like that.

To be honest, the lowest end M-Box converters are better than the old Apogee's which we all thought were the bee's knees back in the good ole days.
AD8000's to be exact.

Anyway, it's all about learning the craft of recording and mixing that will be better for you than any gear at this point.
Keep using what you have if you are comfortable with it and know it top to bottom.

That's my honest opinion. I've been in the game since 92.

Hope this helps,

Marc
Old 31st May 2016
  #28
Lives for gear
Sorry, can't agree to disagree. The very first PT products used a 16-bit data path. That was bad. Shortly after it went to 24-bit. If you don't understand the need for a higher internal bit depth for storing intermediate calculations, and the benefits of using floating point math instead of fixed point, I won't bother.

Quote:
Originally Posted by M2E View Post
I agree to disagree.
Once Pro Tools went 64bit with Pro Tool 6, everything changed both in TDM and RTAS.
RTAS plugin have always ran at 32bit and most of them were running DP.
PT's was always 32bit as far as plugins.
Also, PT TDM system always was 56bit. Only 8 bits shy of 64bit.
So, sound wise, there was no difference.
Even to this day.

Up-sampling something from 24bit to 32bit is silly to me and doesn't make the audio any better period.

I agree that PT4 (16bit),5 was straight 24bit throughout but 6 changed the game. They just never really announced that PT's was 64bit out loud.

JusMyThoughts,

Marc
Old 31st May 2016
  #29
Tui
Gear Guru
 
Tui's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by end View Post
Sorry if I opened some kind of Pandora's box...
Don't worry about it.

Also, people shouldn't be so testy and overreact. Yours was a legitimate question, even though it has been discussed (and argued over) ad nauseam on this forum and others.

So, the short answer is No, there are no sonic differences between the "audio engines" (which, really, are only a few lines of comparatively simple code) of Logic and PT. There are ways of proving this beyond doubt, such as phase-cancellation tests.
Old 31st May 2016
  #30
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by end View Post
I wasn't expecting all this hate and mocking, really.
Come back to this thread in a week and see if it's dead. That'll be a clue. All you had to do was do a search on the forum and read a few threads. I think it's pretty much an unspoken "rule" to search/read before asking questions on a forum. No hate or mocking. Just pointing that out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by end View Post
I am sorry but trying to find a discussion like this is not that easy because under the world Protools+combinations there is a mess. Both here and on Google. Try searching "best sounding DAW", or "Protools vs Logic", the results are messy and outdated, usually done by newbies,
Ok, so you did a search, found a bunch of replies, and decided you didn't want to go through it and instead have it spoonfed to you. Did you ever consider that perhaps it's such a mess because even when it is spoonfed some people won't take "no" for an answer? And that maybe the only way to get to the bottom of it is doing the work by doing the reading? Because I think that's what people here were getting at. It often goes like this:

A: "Does DAW X sound the best?"
B: "The bundled plugins are different, but the audio engine won't sound different".
A: "I think there's something wrong with the audio engine."
B: "It's just summing, there's really no perceivable difference."
A: "But it sounds different. It's not as wide/fat/airy/sweet."
B: "There's no difference in audio engines really."
A: "I can hear it. Even just bouncing the same one track out."
B: "Do a null test."
A: .... does null test... and either

-- "It nulls, but I still hear a difference, and I trust my ears" or
-- "It doesn't null, and I still hear a difference"

B: "If it didn't null you did something wrong, because we've done this before. And if it did null there's by definition no difference and you thus can't trust your ears".

A: "I don't care, I hear a difference. I think there's a difference...."

Six-Eight weeks later, new person, same procedure.
Topic:
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