The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 All  This Thread  Reviews  Gear Database  Gear for sale     Latest  Trending
Apple states better performance New Mac Pro with Logic X
Old 31st October 2013
  #31
Lives for gear
 
valis's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by arrowood101 View Post
I just think your floppy comment was far fetched and the hype of FW was a closer analogy.
The floppy comment was due to my memory of the launch of the original 'candy-colored' iMac and the "loss" of the floppy drive versus native USB ports (it was one of the first machines to have those). I see a 1:1 correlation for Mac Users and the responses from the overall market, but maybe that just makes me an aging raver
Old 31st October 2013
  #32
Lives for gear
 
valis's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by arrowood101 View Post
Because of this new mac pro I bet you will see large studios looking at hackentoshs, studios that in the past would of frowned on that.
I doubt it, the iMac (or MBP) has already been tiding Final Cut Pro & PT Native/Logic users over for a while, the video studios I know of have known more about the Mac Pro (via backdoor channels) than I expected. Some of the people I work for/with knew about the form factor change last year and I didn't believe them, and they're all waiting for the new machines *IF* they need them.

But yes I'd agree it's not targeting audio users at all, and that's ok IMO. Going to tradeshows for video hardware & streaming video tech and then visiting shows like NAMM & Messe you'll find the numbers thrown around in the audio industry are fractional values of the video market. 4K video is expected to be the next 'driving factor in growth for broadcast & streaming video' (I have seen this phrase used almost universally in video for 6+ months now) and the audio users have *always* been traditionally catered for later. The response time is lower these days, but the speed at which any peripheral standard has catered to audio users has always lagged behind the mainstream. Workstations gaining floppies when computers were shifting to internal drives in the 80's (I have keyboards from the 90's that used solely floppies!); Samplers gaining SCSI & Zip/Jaz drive support when flash media was emerging for computing and SCSI/Zip being left behind; USB ports showing up on anything that wasn't just a simple midi controller (and these used 1.0 chipsets when 1.1/2.0 were already in the market for consumer tech...) The list goes on & on...and it's largely due to budgets, product cycles and marketshare.

I still remain unconvinced that 95% of Logic users even need one today. In 2-3 years when TB 2.0 makes a lot more sense (sub $1000 4K monitors on the market etc) I bet the machine's oddball nature won't seem so oddball...and more & more users will need that Mac Pro instead of one of the 2011/2012 models (or even a haswell/broadwell iMac or etc)
Old 31st October 2013
  #33
Quote:
Originally Posted by valis View Post
The floppy comment was due to my memory of the launch of the original 'candy-colored' iMac and the "loss" of the floppy drive versus native USB ports (it was one of the first machines to have those). I see a 1:1 correlation for Mac Users and the responses from the overall market, but maybe that just makes me an aging raver
Guess it just depends if your glass is half full or half empty.

Only time will tell, how quickly TB gets to where it needs to be. I see it as a hype machine (i.e. my FW comment), you see it as "the sky is falling response" (ie floppy comment).

I don't know too many that think the "sky is falling" in audio. Will find a work around. I do know many professional engineers that are a far way from considering these machines. Honestly I personally don't know any audio engineer that is excited about them. But eh as you have stated, and I agree, we are not the target market.
Old 31st October 2013
  #34
Lives for gear
 
valis's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by arrowood101 View Post
Keep in mind this is an apple dealer, so for him to say that I was a little floored. Because generally dealers will put the most positive spin on things they can. The few companies he mentioned was very large (household name) production companies. Also some of the larger museums out here, which surprised me a bit.
Can't disagree with you because I don't doubt you and I have no idea what post houses he's dealing with, but I think the main thing with the new Mac Pro and buyers like you mention is that there's obviously no information to draw judgements from.

Again though I talked to people before the new Mac Pro was announced that tried to convince me of the form factor change, and there was even a poster in the long running Mac Pro thread here on GS that mentioned it. I didn't believe that the EATX standard was being left behind but that turned out to be true... these same professionals have told me that they've been WAITING to see the new Mac Pro launch so they can finally shift over. If I were to hazard a guess I'd say somewhere they're talking to people who have at least been consulted with for the development of this product.

The ONLY perople among these users not talking new Mac Pro are those using RED "Workflow" hardware (red rocket-x and external chassis etc) as it's obviously based on traditional PCIe form factors right now. RED tends to be buggy and lag behind anyway, many people are moving to Black Magic and beyond now...

But *none* of that matters again to an audio users aside from one question: what is the interchange format you're targetting? A Mac Pro isn't critical in this equation imo.

hollywood & most of the west coast video market (that I know of at least) is unlikely to shift workflows if they haven't already. Realistically it makes 0 difference to me aside from the fact that ProRes is such a convenience for intermediate file exchange...I have machines running more than just Mac & Win OSes here anyway.
Old 31st October 2013
  #35
Lives for gear
 
valis's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by arrowood101 View Post
Only time will tell, how quickly TB gets to where it needs to be. I see it as a hype machine (i.e. my FW comment), you see it as "the sky is falling response" (ie floppy comment).
I think TB will wind up being like Firewire. If you don't need it, you won't care. And cables are unlikely to *ever* be cheap enough for consumer or 'prosumer' users to want them unless they have money to blow or buy into hype. When optical interconnects hit you'll see a TB standard that goes past a 4X PCIe connection in the chipset, and some of the 'pro' chassis and GPU related issues will then go away (*and* cables will allow ridiculously long runs). But I think we're at the candy-colored iMac launch stage, not the maturity stage where there are professional products galore...

And the real thing that mystifies people imo:

Product cycles are so fast these days taking 2 years to develop a format change for the Mac Pro and Intel targeting a 5 year run-up to Thunderbolt penetrating the marketing enough to "make sense" to the average "pro" user is a lot of what is confusing people. Software cycles are fast, hardware cycles are slower and require market uptake as well as r&d...or we get served piecemeal steps along the way to spoon feed us the "real" upgrade bit by tiny incremental bit.
Old 31st October 2013
  #36
Quote:
Originally Posted by valis View Post
I doubt it, the iMac (or MBP) has already been tiding Final Cut Pro & PT Native/Logic users over for a while, the video studios I know of have known more about the Mac Pro (via backdoor channels) than I expected. Some of the people I work for/with knew about the form factor change last year and I didn't believe them, and they're all waiting for the new machines *IF* they need them.
I guess you missed the part where I said "large" studios. Minus writting rigs I don't see too many imacs, or mbp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by valis View Post
But yes I'd agree it's not targeting audio users at all, and that's ok IMO. Going to tradeshows for video hardware & streaming video tech and then visiting shows like NAMM & Messe you'll find the numbers thrown around in the audio industry are fractional values of the video market. 4K video is expected to be the next 'driving factor in growth for broadcast & streaming video' (I have seen this phrase used almost universally in video for 6+ months now) and the audio users have *always* been traditionally catered for later. The response time is lower these days, but the speed at which any peripheral standard has catered to audio users has always lagged behind the mainstream. Workstations gaining floppies when computers were shifting to internal drives in the 80's (I have keyboards from the 90's that used solely floppies!); Samplers gaining SCSI & Zip/Jaz drive support when flash media was emerging for computing and SCSI/Zip being left behind; USB ports showing up on anything that wasn't just a simple midi controller (and these used 1.0 chipsets when 1.1/2.0 were already in the market for consumer tech...) The list goes on & on...and it's largely due to budgets, product cycles and marketshare.
Sounds like you go to too many trade shows.

I joke, I joke I just hate those things and couldn't resist. Yes the pro audio community has been hit hard and has shrunk greatly. Think I have stated in everyone one of my posts that I am not the target market and understand why. At the same time I am concerned for my needs. Also we are on an AUDIO forum, so where else is it better to discuss the needs for AUDIO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by valis View Post
I still remain unconvinced that 95% of Logic users even need one today. In 2-3 years when TB 2.0 makes a lot more sense (sub $1000 4K monitors on the market etc) I bet the machine's oddball nature won't seem so oddball...and more & more users will need that Mac Pro instead of one of the 2011/2012 models (or even a haswell/broadwell iMac or etc)
Yep it's all speculation for now, time will tell. Also guess I am in the 5% that do need a mac pro and use Logic. I maintain multiple portable rigs which are mac book pros and I have to do certain things to slim them down and the users know not to expect the same from them as my studio rigs.
Old 31st October 2013
  #37
Quote:
Originally Posted by valis View Post
Can't disagree with you because I don't doubt you and I have no idea what post houses he's dealing with, but I think the main thing with the new Mac Pro and buyers like you mention is that there's obviously no information to draw judgements from.

Again though I talked to people before the new Mac Pro was announced that tried to convince me of the form factor change, and there was even a poster in the long running Mac Pro thread here on GS that mentioned it. I didn't believe that the EATX standard was being left behind but that turned out to be true... these same professionals have told me that they've been WAITING to see the new Mac Pro launch so they can finally shift over. If I were to hazard a guess I'd say somewhere they're talking to people who have at least been consulted with for the development of this product.

The ONLY perople among these users not talking new Mac Pro are those using RED "Workflow" hardware (red rocket-x and external chassis etc) as it's obviously based on traditional PCIe form factors right now. RED tends to be buggy and lag behind anyway, many people are moving to Black Magic and beyond now...

But *none* of that matters again to an audio users aside from one question: what is the interchange format you're targetting? A Mac Pro isn't critical in this equation imo.

hollywood & most of the west coast video market (that I know of at least) is unlikely to shift workflows if they haven't already. Realistically it makes 0 difference to me aside from the fact that ProRes is such a convenience for intermediate file exchange...I have machines running more than just Mac & Win OSes here anyway.
Yep our needs are different. I could not tell you what others need, nor do I care much. You could say "it's not my thing." But I do know what I do very well and what my and my client needs are.
Old 31st October 2013
  #38
Also should be noted. I keep reading about the speed of TB vs PCI. Should be noted that's not what concerns me, it's reliability and "quirks" of TB vs PCI.
Old 31st October 2013
  #39
Lives for gear
 
valis's Avatar
Not to mention specific implementation bugs, like when 3rd party chipsets & cables are around en masse (harking back to "you need TI FireWire chipsets" here...)
Old 31st October 2013
  #40
Quote:
Originally Posted by valis View Post
Not to mention specific implementation bugs, like when 3rd party chipsets & cables are around en masse (harking back to "you need TI FireWire chipsets" here...)
Yep all the 3rd party enclosures for PCI cards and storage is going to be a nightmare.

Always thought eliminating need for 3rd party hardware was apple's thing? Now they are relying on it.
Old 31st October 2013
  #41
TNM
Lives for gear
If only there was a silent thunderbolt to pcie chassis. Then I wouldn't care so much.
Old 31st October 2013
  #42
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNM View Post
If only there was a silent thunderbolt to pcie chassis. Then I wouldn't care so much.
How do you know there isn't? Have you heard any? I heard a Sonnet and it was pretty quiet.
Old 31st October 2013
  #43
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by valis View Post
There's plenty of talk about that around the net.
Quote:
Originally Posted by valis View Post
"Talk" is meaningless...
Please pick a standard and stick with it. Thanks.
Old 31st October 2013
  #44
Lives for gear
 
valis's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by stupendousman8 View Post
Please pick a standard and stick with it. Thanks.
Huh? The 1st statement is double embedded in a quote, not by me. Cheers though!
Old 31st October 2013
  #45
Gear Maniac
Sorry, screwed up the formatting.

I agree though with your point. "Talk" is meaningless.

Also, if someone is just going to stick all this in a machine room, what does it matter if it's in the box or not? Again, does not compute. Unless someone has data that shows that TB audio devices won't have enough throughput to do audio as well as their PCI card brethren, I think this isn't that much of an issue really.
Old 31st October 2013
  #46
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by valis View Post
The real question is how many TB 2.0 chipsets are in the Mac Pro? 2, 3 or 6? Because any shared ports will also share bandwidth...
Apple says two TB channels, I don't know if the ports are physically divided somehow.

Good point about the x4 thing. Every audio PCIe card I've ever seen has been x1, including stuff like the pro tools cards and UAD. The only cards I've seen over x4 are video cards and a few x8 SSD pcie cards, there are probably some out there but I don't know what they are and they're probably not things commonly needed by audio folks.
Old 2nd November 2013
  #47
Quote:
Originally Posted by stupendousman8 View Post
Sorry, screwed up the formatting.

I agree though with your point. "Talk" is meaningless.

Also, if someone is just going to stick all this in a machine room, what does it matter if it's in the box or not? Again, does not compute. Unless someone has data that shows that TB audio devices won't have enough throughput to do audio as well as their PCI card brethren, I think this isn't that much of an issue really.
Guessing you haven't seen too many machine rooms? Space is always an issue. We have a machine room and "silent racks." Space is always limited in those things also. Pretty normal.

Also for the millionth time the speed doesn't concern me, reliability does. More 3rd party mismatches, more connections, more cables, more problems. Who knows and everything could be rock solid out of the gate, but that seems like a pipe dream.

You seem pretty smitten with these new mac pros, you going to run out and buy one when they come out? If this was the computer of our dreams I would, but unfortunately as of now it is not.

Also I know these guys are smaller then the old mac pros, but having the fan on top adds to the space needed unfortunately.

Who knows, time will tell, maybe this new mac pro will become an amazing tool, I am just not too hopeful, but again I am not the target market so it really doesn't matter.
Old 2nd November 2013
  #48
Lives for gear
 
shelterr's Avatar
 

People keep talking about the new form factor like it is some step forward. Other than portability (which is a pretty weak argument for the new MP and there are plenty of other portable options out there) there is NO ADVANTAGE to changing the physical design of the Mac Pro. Professionals were not asking for it, did not expect it, and even if it will be "okay" for video guys, they would have been completely fine with the old form factor and the new features being combined into one machine.

This whole thing is merely Apple attempting to seem "innovative" because the perceived lack of innovation has been hurting their brand image and stock price. Even if this new product has a niche, it should not have replaced the old Mac Pro design. All anyone wanted since 2010 was a new Mac Pro, with new features. To make people wait three years and not even give them the thing they were waiting for is crazy and Steve Jobs wouldn't have done it this way. He understood how to actually innovate and make things more convenient for people in ways they didn't realize they needed. The new Mac Pro is not innovative. It is merely a forced limitation that is arbitrary, pointless, and ultimately inconvenient to the customers it is meant to serve.

There are lots of arguments people can make about thunderbolt vs PCIe, performance, and all of the other minor nonsense that gets debated on these MP threads. That stuff DOES matter, but we shouldn't have to figure it all out against our will since we are the customer base. None of these arguments would even be related to the Mac Pro if they had just made the machine that everyone wanted.
Old 2nd November 2013
  #49
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by arrowood101 View Post
Guessing you haven't seen too many machine rooms? Space is always an issue. We have a machine room and "silent racks." Space is always limited in those things also. Pretty normal.
Most of the rooms I've seen are at least the size of a small closet. Again, shouldn't really be a big issue. I mean, how many "cards" would you normally have in a box that could be served by a few hard drive sized outboard pieces?

Quote:
Also for the millionth time the speed doesn't concern me, reliability does. More 3rd party mismatches, more connections, more cables, more problems. Who knows and everything could be rock solid out of the gate, but that seems like a pipe dream.
One cable per peripheral. Each card in PCI needs one connection to the main board. How exactly is that a significant difference. Either the interface works or it doesn't. Shouldn't matter if it's attached via a cable or a board slot.

Quote:
You seem pretty smitten with these new mac pros, you going to run out and buy one when they come out? If this was the computer of our dreams I would, but unfortunately as of now it is not.
No. My current system works fine. However, if I found the need to upgrade I can't see why the issues you've presented would present any real challenge or downgrade to my current system.
Old 4th November 2013
  #50
Gear Addict
 
dcrigger's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by shelterr View Post
To make people wait three years and not even give them the thing they were waiting for is crazy and Steve Jobs wouldn't have done it this way. He understood how to actually innovate and make things more convenient for people in ways they didn't realize they needed.
Couldn't disagree more. This is EXACTLY the sort of move Jobs would've made (and did in the past). Many of us assumed something like this was coming since the first appearance of Thunderbolt and that goes back far enough that Jobs would've have certainly been involved.

And to think he would've supported the idea of maintaining the "old way" (big centralized towers) compared to the "new" (decentralized systems - where one only buys the hardware support structure they need - and are able to carry that hardware forward with each main machine upgrade/replacement.) is not to have paid much attention to what Jobs did in the past. With him, at the very first peak of the "new", it was a complete and total "out with the old" - regardless of how premature, not completely formed and still expensive that "new' might be.

So no - Steve Jobs' fingerprints are ALL OVER every aspect of this new Mac Pro's design and release.

And if history serves… we WILL be moving to decentralized computing rigs - not immediately with this first release. But five years from now most folks will be wondering why it was ever a fuss… why as audio pros, that utilize such a spaghetti factory of wires, cables, mics and boxes every day, freaked out at the prospect of using yet a teeny bit more outboard gear to do the same job with more flexibility. (Yet I get, always hard to see, when it is round one - when things are most expensive)

David
Old 4th November 2013
  #51
Quote:
Originally Posted by stupendousman8 View Post
Most of the rooms I've seen are at least the size of a small closet. Again, shouldn't really be a big issue. I mean, how many "cards" would you normally have in a box that could be served by a few hard drive sized outboard pieces?



One cable per peripheral. Each card in PCI needs one connection to the main board. How exactly is that a significant difference. Either the interface works or it doesn't. Shouldn't matter if it's attached via a cable or a board slot.



No. My current system works fine. However, if I found the need to upgrade I can't see why the issues you've presented would present any real challenge or downgrade to my current system.
Sorry for slow response. Don't want to come across that I am saying it will be impossible. As I posted earlier, people will find work arounds or deal. Personally I am considering Hackentosh for the first time. Never would of considered that in the past. Just seems like a pain in the butt right now with no pay off I am excited about or others I know.

The cables themselves aren't my concern. It goes back to one of my first posts on this thread when I asked if anyone had tried turning on an FW external hard drive with a UAD satellite on. The Satellite will lose connection on a mac pro and you have to reboot. Is this apple's issue, UAD's issue, or combo? I have no idea, but this is the issues that worry me.

To be fair it is unfounded worry as of now, haven't tried a new mac pro with all the TB add ons. At the same time I have heard all these arguments when FW 800 came out. Just seems like the norm with these protocols and a bunch of 3rd party added to the mix. I have one computer that has a ridiculous usb setup, extenders and about 10 things strapped to the computer. If one thing goes out, then others start freaking. With 3rd party and these things it just seems like the norm to me.

Is this old thinking? Probably, but until I see otherwise I will not be too hopeful.
Old 4th November 2013
  #52
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcrigger View Post
. . . why as audio pros, that utilize such a spaghetti factory of wires, cables, mics and boxes every day, freaked out at the prospect of using yet a teeny bit more outboard gear to do the same job with more flexibility. (Yet I get, always hard to see, when it is round one - when things are most expensive)

David
Sorry edited your post just because I wanted to comment on one aspect. I don't think it's the physical cables themselves. It's all the 3rd party interactions and stability that worries others (at least me). These things just aren't passing analogue audio, a lot can go wrong with FW and USB. Will it be the same with TB? Not sure, but wouldn't be surprised.
Old 4th November 2013
  #53
Lives for gear
 
shelterr's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcrigger View Post
Couldn't disagree more. This is EXACTLY the sort of move Jobs would've made (and did in the past). Many of us assumed something like this was coming since the first appearance of Thunderbolt and that goes back far enough that Jobs would've have certainly been involved.

And to think he would've supported the idea of maintaining the "old way" (big centralized towers) compared to the "new" (decentralized systems - where one only buys the hardware support structure they need - and are able to carry that hardware forward with each main machine upgrade/replacement.) is not to have paid much attention to what Jobs did in the past. With him, at the very first peak of the "new", it was a complete and total "out with the old" - regardless of how premature, not completely formed and still expensive that "new' might be.

So no - Steve Jobs' fingerprints are ALL OVER every aspect of this new Mac Pro's design and release.

And if history serves… we WILL be moving to decentralized computing rigs - not immediately with this first release. But five years from now most folks will be wondering why it was ever a fuss… why as audio pros, that utilize such a spaghetti factory of wires, cables, mics and boxes every day, freaked out at the prospect of using yet a teeny bit more outboard gear to do the same job with more flexibility. (Yet I get, always hard to see, when it is round one - when things are most expensive)

David
You clearly missed my point about the fact that Steve Jobs was an innovator who created products that people didn't even know they wanted. I'm not saying this product wouldn't have been created in some form or another eventually, but the idea of getting rid of a product that large numbers of professional wanted and replace it with something that people seem pretty upset about was NOT something Steve Jobs was about. No one would be complaining if they made a real new Mac Pro as well as the black wastebasket. It should have been phased out once the technology was all in place to accommodate it. It's common sense.
Old 4th November 2013
  #54
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by arrowood101 View Post
These things just aren't passing analogue audio, a lot can go wrong with FW and USB. Will it be the same with TB? Not sure, but wouldn't be surprised.
And a lot can go wrong with PCI and SATA. Hooking up third party peripherals is always going to have some risk but I'd argue the company designing the gear is often more a factor than the interface or port.
Old 4th November 2013
  #55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Connelly View Post
And a lot can go wrong with PCI and SATA. Hooking up third party peripherals is always going to have some risk but I'd argue the company designing the gear is often more a factor than the interface or port.
Yep I don't disagree. I will say personally though internal PCI is pretty tried and tested format that doesn't give much issues. Hence why people are bummed about the switch.
Old 5th November 2013
  #56
Lives for gear
They should have made this b**** 19" rackmountable. I frequently see pics of mobile audio/video rigs with the old mac pro in a special rackmount case.

I would think it would seem more "pro" if it were like ultra durable and flexible for mobile and stationary applications. All the peripherals could be other rackmount units so you could store everything together in a tidy package rather than having wires and cables and different third party form factors going all over the place.

If you want go mobile with this rig you would need all sorts of different cases and s*** to move the delicate mctrashcan and all of the delicate peripherals.

Dream on.

The new mac pro validates my decision to build a custom PC last year. IMO the only reason to use macs as an audio engineer is if you are attached at the hip to Logic.
Old 5th November 2013
  #57
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by arrowood101 View Post
Yep I don't disagree. I will say personally though internal PCI is pretty tried and tested format that doesn't give much issues. Hence why people are bummed about the switch.
Again, the only significant difference between internal and external PCI should be that the contact points that the data is shuttled across are a little further apart. That shouldn't effect the basic interoperability of the peripheral, while allowing more of them to be used.

If there were problems with a companies implementation of PCI cards or Thunderbolt devices, it's going to be driver related. Given that we aren't really dealing with a new protocol, a driver created for a PCI card shouldn't need much or any tweaking (based on my understanding) to work as a Thunderbolt device. We aren't reinventing the wheel here - just making it more portable and being able to use more.
Old 5th November 2013
  #58
Quote:
Originally Posted by stupendousman8 View Post
Again, the only significant difference between internal and external PCI should be that the contact points that the data is shuttled across are a little further apart. That shouldn't effect the basic interoperability of the peripheral, while allowing more of them to be used.

If there were problems with a companies implementation of PCI cards or Thunderbolt devices, it's going to be driver related. Given that we aren't really dealing with a new protocol, a driver created for a PCI card shouldn't need much or any tweaking (based on my understanding) to work as a Thunderbolt device. We aren't reinventing the wheel here - just making it more portable and being able to use more.
I defiantly could be wrong, I don't design hardware for a living, so feel free to correct me.

PCI does not equal TB. Yes inside the exterior pci box. But between that you have a some what new protocol (TB). Which will involve new 3rd party chip sets. So no in this situation PCI internal is not the exact same as PCI via TB.

It could be great, who knows. But it does involve more factors. The situation where PCI (SATA) internal equals PCI external is those SATA extender cards. This is not that.
Old 7th November 2013
  #59
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by arrowood101 View Post
Which will involve new 3rd party chip sets.
PCI requires third party chip sets, and while I'm sure there are a few new variables that Thunderbolt requires addressing, it's not a new protocol. It's just the same protocol over wires instead of carded contacts. I'm sure there's room for error, but it wouldn't seem that there would be very much at all if the company in question already does PCI successfully.
Old 8th November 2013
  #60
Gear Addict
 
dcrigger's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by shelterr View Post
You clearly missed my point about the fact that Steve Jobs was an innovator who created products that people didn't even know they wanted. I'm not saying this product wouldn't have been created in some form or another eventually, but the idea of getting rid of a product that large numbers of professional wanted and replace it with something that people seem pretty upset about was NOT something Steve Jobs was about. No one would be complaining if they made a real new Mac Pro as well as the black wastebasket. It should have been phased out once the technology was all in place to accommodate it. It's common sense.
Yet he often did exactly that.

Floppy drives
ADB buss
His aborted attempt to prematurely eliminate Firewire (because USB/file based cameras were "where things are going, so were pulling Firewire from the Macbook line - regardless of the countless video cameras still in use and the myriad of audio interfaces require it" He relented, but it was about the only time he ever did.

So sorry we'll just have to agree to disagree - I totally stand by assessment that Job's would never have slated two professional lines by his view "the old vs the new" that so closely overlap in function to run in parallel.

Sure with enough need and protest, he might keep an old model available - selling it parallel with the "new" as a transition. There's been a number examples of this over the years - Final Cut 7 staying available throughout the difficult FCX roll-out most recently comes to mind.

But of course just keeping the old Mac Pros isn't going to cut it because they are/were in serious need of upgrading.

So no I disagree - most of the time, regardless of the howling and crying, Jobs was very much a "rip off the band aid" sort of guy. So much so that to me this shift of the pro-level line has his fingerprints all over it.

Which isn't to say that it might not be premature, that it is certainly going to cause a bunch of folks headaches, etc - just saying it is a classic Steve Jobs move.

David
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump