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Apple Logic X vs Cubase 7
Old 18th July 2013
  #1
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Apple Logic X vs Cubase 7

I searched...Saw nothing about the comparison over these two. I almost purchased Cubase today because I wanted something that was 64 bit, but would load my non AAX 64 plugins. All of a sudden Logic X pops up. It seems like cubase is still better, but it's nearly double the price. So, I wanted to see if anyone had any thoughts, reviews and comparisons on the two. There is a Cubase 7 Artist which is closer to the price of Logic Pro X. But, for the sake of argument, let's compare Cubase 7 full to Logic pro X?
Old 18th July 2013
  #2
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Paradigm-wise, both are unchanged from previous versions. Do you like Logic's workflow or Cubase? They have generally similar features.
Old 18th July 2013
  #3
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I can't think of any thing I can do in Logic that I can't now do in Cubase. There are things I can do in Cubase I can't do in Logic. They're mostly composition/soundtrack type tools... Chord Track, VST Expression, Arranger Track etc. Logic X has caught up in other respects eg integrated Melodyne style pitch correction. The complement of inbuilt plugins is now pretty much on a par... but I rarely use them anyway. Logic is a bit of a bargain *if you already own a Mac*... which is why Apple price it so aggressively. But looks like you now have to pay full price each time you upgrade it... which you won't in Cubase. I think the next .5 update of Cubase is due within a few months... Really, only you can choose!

Sent from my GT-I9300
Old 18th July 2013
  #4
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i would love to get along with Logic so much but everytime I try its the little things that hold me back from getting off the ground. quantize note lengths via key command etc. I'm just too used to getting a quick start on Live or Cubase that it kills the vibe if I cant find my way around fast enough...

i've bought L9 and got LX right after seeing it popup in the app store. maybe one day we'll get along.
Old 18th July 2013
  #5
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For me, Cubase offers tools for carefully crafting the kind of music I like to produce.

I do really like the MIDI in Logic, but for audio related tasks and mixing it's hard to not have Cubase's,

- off-line process history
- off line processing with plugins
- proper detailed audio pool
- gain handles on audio clips
- pans on sends
- choice of panners built into the mixer
- instant response and modern audio engine

Add to that Cubase's superior MIDI functionality (Expression Maps, VST Expression etc and Chord Track for composition) and the biggie .... a dedicated drum editor.

Then personally I have to conclude Cubase 7 remains the leading "all in one" DAW for music production.

That said workflow is more important and for some Cubase's workflow is inferior to Logic's - you really have to try both out for an album or two to be certain which is right for you.
Old 18th July 2013 | Show parent
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mixedup View Post
I can't think of any thing I can do in Logic that I can't now do in Cubase. There are things I can do in Cubase I can't do in Logic. They're mostly composition/soundtrack type tools... Chord Track, VST Expression, Arranger Track etc. Logic X has caught up in other respects eg integrated Melodyne style pitch correction. The complement of inbuilt plugins is now pretty much on a par... but I rarely use them anyway. Logic is a bit of a bargain *if you already own a Mac*... which is why Apple price it so aggressively. But looks like you now have to pay full price each time you upgrade it... which you won't in Cubase. I think the next .5 update of Cubase is due within a few months... Really, only you can choose!

Sent from my GT-I9300
It sounds like Cubase 7 has the edge. I need to read up on those Cubase features you mentioned to see if I should leave Logic Pro behind. That was my last Major DAW. I have PT 11, but it's usless, right now and from what I heard the (standard) version gets it butt kicked by Cubase anyways. If the Cubase pitch correction is strong enough, I may even "sell off" my Waves Tune license so I can further leverage the value of Cubase. It would be a lot easier for me to simply get Logic X but I'm leaning towards Cubase if the work flow is as good or better. I would get a demo but you have to pay 30.00 for some sort of ilok to use the Cubase demo...that sucks.
Old 18th July 2013 | Show parent
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clonkified View Post
Paradigm-wise, both are unchanged from previous versions. Do you like Logic's workflow or Cubase? They have generally similar features. Cubase is PC and Mac, but Logic performs better on Mac.
I never used Cubase. Logic was, "ok" but the workflow, for me, was never "inspiring". I did watch a Logic X video and I like it's workflow better than L9. I watched a video on Cubase and it's metering is the best I've seen yet. Gonna watch the C7 video again since I have the Logic X video fresh in my mind.
Old 18th July 2013
  #8
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How is the plugin delay compensation in Cubase 7?

What I dislike about Logic (and it is still there in X) is the fact that graphics are not delayed. All metering is useless once you have a fair bit of latency-inducing plugins on your tracks. The same goes for automation. Adjusting automation by eye is impossible, and drawing it is trial and error.


And how bad is the performance on Mac? If I were to test it on my mac, would I do it any justice? I don't expect it to work like Logic, but if it performs really terrible I might have to test it on a windows machine.
Old 18th July 2013
  #9
question of the year, this will define wether my next production laptop/computer is a Mac or a PC

so far Cubase 7 is still #winning

would be stupid of me to go back to Logic Pro if most of the things that used to annoy me about me still haven't changed just because they updated the GUI a bit and added a couple of features that Cubase already has

Cubase has been out for half a year already and has showed a lot of support from the developers which are quite active on the Steinberg forums, I think it's the smarter and safest choice as of right now

maybe Logic Pro X will be a serious contender in half a year to a year judging from how buggy Logic Pro 8 and Logic Pro 9 were when first released

of course I could be wrong, but Apple has proven to release ****ty upgrades of their software at first, OS X and iOS included

I waited until the third update to jump on Mountain Lion and it's still buggy as hell even after the 4th update, Finder settings keep jumping back to default, I have to restart the Dock pretty often because the spaces crap out, and not to mention all the weird GUI issues Logic was having until recently

and what's Apple doing instead of fixing ****? getting ready to release OS X Mavericks! another paid update that will break half of my ****, hooray!
Old 18th July 2013 | Show parent
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohmicide View Post
question of the year, this will define wether my next production laptop/computer is a Mac or a PC

so far Cubase 7 is still #winning

would be stupid of me to go back to Logic Pro if most of the things that used to annoy me about me still haven't changed just because they changed the GUI a bit and added a couple of features that Cubase already has

Cubase has been out for half a year already and has showed a lot of support from the developer which is quite active on the Steinberg forums, I think it's the smarter and safest show as of right now

maybe Logic Pro X will be a serious contender in half a year to a year, but judging from how buggy Logic Pro 8 and Logic Pro 9 were when they were first released, I wouldn't count on Logic X to be stable for a while

of course I could be wrong, but Apple has proven to release ****ty upgrades of their software at first, OS X and iOS included

I waited until the third update to jump on Mountain Lion and it's still buggy as hell, Finder settings keep jumping back to default, I have to restart the Dock pretty often because the spaces crap out, and not to mention all the weird GUI issues Logic was having until recently

and what's Apple doing instead of fixing ****? getting ready to release OS X Mavericks! another paid update that will break half of my ****, hooray!
+1 on Cubase 7 winning. I just saw a video on chord track. VERY USEFUL for me.
Old 18th July 2013 | Show parent
  #11
Quote:
Originally Posted by iLex View Post
And how bad is the performance on Mac? If I were to test it on my mac, would I do it any justice? I don't expect it to work like Logic, but if it performs really terrible I might have to test it on a windows machine.
it performs around the same and Live 8 from what I've heard

I found Logic Pro 9 to run around 30-40% better than Live 8 and 9 on my machine after many tests

I tried different plug-ins and effects to see if the numbers were consistent, Logic kicked Live's ass every time

one thing that that really stood out was that Logic was able to duplicate tracks without a hassle while Live became more and more sluggish the more tracks I added with the program stopped, this is due to Live's audio engine trying to keep all plug-ins armed and ready causing the program to have audio overloads even when on standby

kinda hilarious that they've gone to far to try and market Live 9 as a production DAW yet kept the same audio engine which was optimized for real-time performance and didn't even fix the automation delay compensation

and there I go going on off Live again, but back to the point

even with Live's the ****ty audio engine, I still prefer it over Logic to an extent, Logic X is intriguing me though, but a few key features that I was hoping for were looked over, non-destructive audio editing being one of them

I have a friend that owns Live 9, Logic 9 and Cubase 7 on a Mac and sticks to Cubase 7 the most even though it doesn't perform as well as Logic so go figure

if you really like it that much and can live with the less than ideal audio engine performance on mac then it might be for you

if not then run Windows though bootcamp and call it a day!
Old 18th July 2013 | Show parent
  #12
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iLex's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohmicide View Post
it performs around the same and Live 8 from what I've heard

I found Logic Pro 9 to run around 30-40% better than Live 8 and 9 on my machine after many tests

I tried different plug-ins and effects to see if the numbers were consistent, Logic kicked Live's ass every time

one thing that that really stood out was that Logic was able to duplicate tracks without a hassle while Live became more and more sluggish the more tracks I added with the program stopped, this is due to Live's live performance audio engine tried to keep all plug-ins armed and ready causing the program to have audio overloads even when on standby

kinda hilarious that they've gone to far to try and market Live 9 as a production DAW yet kept the same audio engine and didn't even fix the automation delay compensation

and there I go going on off Live again, but back to the point

even with Live's the ****ty audio engine, I still prefer it over Logic to an extent, Logic X is intriguing me though, but a few key features that I was hoping for were looked over, non-destructive audio editing being one of them

I have a friend that owns Live 9, Logic 9 and Cubase 7 on a Mac and sticks to Cubase 7 the most even though it doesn't performs as well as Logic so go figure

if you really like it that much and can live with the less than ideal audio engine performance on mac then it might be for you
Thanks for your answer.
I'll give it a go then... will need to install windows on my mac anyways to give it a try (as I run 10.6 here and Cubase requires 10.7).
In time I will have to replace my Mac Pro with whatever runs my favorite software best.
Old 18th July 2013 | Show parent
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohmicide View Post
it performs around the same and Live 8 from what I've heard

I found Logic Pro 9 to run around 30-40% better than Live 8 and 9 on my machine after many tests

I tried different plug-ins and effects to see if the numbers were consistent, Logic kicked Live's ass every time

one thing that that really stood out was that Logic was able to duplicate tracks without a hassle while Live became more and more sluggish the more tracks I added with the program stopped, this is due to Live's audio engine trying to keep all plug-ins armed and ready causing the program to have audio overloads even when on standby

kinda hilarious that they've gone to far to try and market Live 9 as a production DAW yet kept the same audio engine which was optimized for real-time performance and didn't even fix the automation delay compensation

and there I go going on off Live again, but back to the point

even with Live's the ****ty audio engine, I still prefer it over Logic to an extent, Logic X is intriguing me though, but a few key features that I was hoping for were looked over, non-destructive audio editing being one of them

I have a friend that owns Live 9, Logic 9 and Cubase 7 on a Mac and sticks to Cubase 7 the most even though it doesn't perform as well as Logic so go figure

if you really like it that much and can live with the less than ideal audio engine performance on mac then it might be for you

if not then run Windows though bootcamp and call it a day!
Are you saying that Logic's delay compensation is better than Cubase 7's?
Old 18th July 2013 | Show parent
  #14
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norbury brook's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by iLex View Post
How is the plugin delay compensation in Cubase 7?

What I dislike about Logic (and it is still there in X) is the fact that graphics are not delayed. All metering is useless once you have a fair bit of latency-inducing plugins on your tracks. The same goes for automation. Adjusting automation by eye is impossible, and drawing it is trial and error.


And how bad is the performance on Mac? If I were to test it on my mac, would I do it any justice? I don't expect it to work like Logic, but if it performs really terrible I might have to test it on a windows machine.
Cubase/nuendo's PDC has always been the best in the game, it's one of the things that I've taken for granted to work without issue for a long time now.

I would say that cubendo does run better on windows like most cross platform programs, that's not to say it doesn't work well on OSX though, it's just not as crisp and snappy.


I'd also add to the Cubase positives; the whole control room, I'm surprised more people don't make more of this, it's really unsurpassed in ANY other DAW.

Another thing in Cubase 7, the metering, once again you have professional tools included that other DAW's don't.

Hardware integration with the MR and UR interfaces, wonderful to be able to drop in a lead vocalist at the 11th hour on a massive mix with zero latency and FX without any worry.

If you want to up the ante from the euphonix artist, check out the Nuage system from Yamaha

http://uk.yamaha.com/en/products/pro...e/?mode=series


very impressive.


I could go on


MC
Old 18th July 2013
  #15
Apple treats Logic like a red headed stepchild. If I see the features compared to Cubase 7 my interest is not very big to think about switching to Logic. I cannot see the big new things in Logic X which makes things easier? Some overhauled GUI is fine but not all.
IMO if not so many professional users would using Logic since such a long time and are familiar with the concepts, Logic would be dead since a long time because nobody would use it anymore.

Last edited by 4damind; 18th July 2013 at 09:42 AM.. Reason: typo
Old 18th July 2013 | Show parent
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norbury brook View Post
Cubase/nuendo's PDC has always been the best in the game, it's one of the things that I've taken for granted to work without issue for a long time now.

I would say that cubendo does run better on windows like most cross platform programs, that's not to say it doesn't work well on OSX though, it's just not as crisp and snappy.



MC
+1

the PDC is Cubendo is second to none.

When testing the MHB multi-bus mixing technique I set up "the" most convoluted signal paths you could imagine and phase inverted the outputs running many plugins and tracks and the null was total silence.

If it's a comparison between the Cunebdo audio engine and Logic's audio engine, it's a non contest - Cubase AE was re-written not that many years ago and is a different generation of code to Logic and totally out performs Logic on every level.

But as I said, Logic has a neat workflow and I can understand why some people swear by it for music production - especially EDM.
Old 18th July 2013
  #17
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You guys are making this choice, way too easy. Before reading these entries, my finger was on the Apple Logic page's "buy" button. But, something told me not to. Now I see why.
Old 18th July 2013
  #18
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And the new Mac Pro looks expensive, and will need expensive satellites. Going Cubase/PC will leave you lots more dough to be spent elsewhere....
Old 18th July 2013 | Show parent
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thehightenor View Post
+1

the PDC is Cubendo is second to none.

When testing the MHB multi-bus mixing technique I set up "the" most convoluted signal paths you could imagine and phase inverted the outputs running many plugins and tracks and the null was total silence.

If it's a comparison between the Cunebdo audio engine and Logic's audio engine, it's a non contest - Cubase AE was re-written not that many years ago and is a different generation of code to Logic and totally out performs Logic on every level.

But as I said, Logic has a neat workflow and I can understand why some people swear by it for music production - especially EDM.
Wow! Now you're tempting me. An audio engine with PDC that can do a Brauer without crapping out is a sexy proposition coming from Logic's "I hope there won't be too much random phase mush today" kind of headstate.
Is it equally good at handling hardware inserts I expect? Any mix % on the hard inserts a la Reaper, so you can do slick hardware parallel stuff at all?
Old 18th July 2013 | Show parent
  #20
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamwerks View Post
And the new Mac Pro looks expensive, and will need expensive satellites. Going Cubase/PC will leave you lots more dough to be spent elsewhere....
that's exactly where my mind's at right now

I could always go with a refurbished iMac but I don't think OS X is worth the hassle anymore and Logic Pro X failed to convince me otherwise
Old 18th July 2013
  #21
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I have a Mac Pro. But, I prefer to have dual platform software, just in case I may want to change back to a PC in the future. I'm an A+ certified Tech. But, during the "Vista" days, I switched to Mac and that wasn't cheap. Windows OS has come a long ways since then and so have the hardware and software vendors. For 1/3 the price of a mac Pro I can build a very powerful PC with all the trimmings. I'm embarrassed to tell you how much I paid on my Mac Pro. But, I will say, it's been extremely dependable.
Old 18th July 2013 | Show parent
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamwerks View Post
And the new Mac Pro looks expensive, and will need expensive satellites. Going Cubase/PC will leave you lots more dough to be spent elsewhere....
I priced up a new PC workstation for Cubase 7 based on

6 core intel CPU
64GB RAM
128GB SSD for OS
512GB SSD for samples
2 x 3TB hard drives for audio and DATA
and a 27" 2560x1440 Dell screen

and it's the same price as a 4GB i5 27" iMac here in the UK!

It crazy really, the above PC workstation with Cubase 7 is a very, very powerful music production workstation capable of producing a very detailed album production.

The iMac (to me personally) is a very nice office desktop computer (I know coz I use one for my home office)

Currently PC's are very powerful with an outstanding performance to cost ratio, of course if you don't like Windows then it's a non starter.

I must be honest though, I'm sure the new Mac Pro will be very powerful indeed, however it will have a price tag here in the UK beyond anything I am prepared to pay for a PC.
Old 18th July 2013
  #23
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Delay-compensation is actually very good in logic!
I had to mix an album that came with 3 kick mikes and 2 snare mics, so I bussed them together before going to the final drumbuss, everything was properly corrected including aux sends.
I was positively surprised, because I've never tried the buss to buss to master routing before, and I was using plugins with high latency (e.g. UAD).
Old 18th July 2013 | Show parent
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post
Wow! Now you're tempting me. An audio engine with PDC that can do a Brauer without crapping out is a sexy proposition coming from Logic's "I hope there won't be too much random phase mush today" kind of headstate.
Is it equally good at handling hardware inserts I expect? Any mix % on the hard inserts a la Reaper, so you can do slick hardware parallel stuff at all?
This was all ITB.

I have never tested Cubendo's PDC will external hardware via inserts. I presume it works just as well, or maybe this is the catch?
Old 18th July 2013 | Show parent
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thehightenor View Post
I priced up a new PC workstation for Cubase 7 based on

6 core intel CPU
64GB RAM
128GB SSD for OS
512GB SSD for samples
2 x 3TB hard drives for audio and DATA
and a 27" 2560x1440 Dell screen

and it's the same price as a 4GB i5 27" iMac here in the UK!

It crazy really, the above PC workstation with Cubase 7 is a very, very powerful music production workstation capable of producing a very detailed album production.

The iMac (to me personally) is a very nice office desktop computer (I know coz I use one for my home office)

Currently PC's are very powerful with an outstanding performance to cost ratio, of course if you don't like Windows then it's a non starter.

I must be honest though, I'm sure the new Mac Pro will be very powerful indeed, however it will have a price tag here in the UK beyond anything I am prepared to pay for a PC.
Basically for the price of a Mac Pro you can get a Very powerful PC, with RAID (1200.00 add for mac), Some good studio speakers, more gear, 40" TV, ...well...you see where I'm going.
Old 18th July 2013 | Show parent
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thehightenor View Post
I must be honest though, I'm sure the new Mac Pro will be very powerful indeed, however it will have a price tag here in the UK beyond anything I am prepared to pay for a PC.
Well, or it becomes Hackintosh time.

Does it actually make any sense to run Cubase on Windows inside Parallels? Or basically, if one had a Hackintosh, couldn't one switch from running proper OSX to proper Windows (obviously not at the same time) instead?

Because your figures will be exactly the same for that, so basically one could build that extremely powerful 6 core server brain beast so that you could run either OS on it and keep your choices open.......
Old 18th July 2013 | Show parent
  #27
Quote:
Originally Posted by smoovemode View Post
I have a Mac Pro. But, I prefer to have dual platform software, just in case I may want to change back to a PC in the future. I'm an A+ certified Tech. But, during the "Vista" days, I switched to Mac and that wasn't cheap. Windows OS has come a long ways since then and so have the hardware and software vendors. For 1/3 the price of a mac Pro I can build a very powerful PC with all the trimmings. I'm embarrassed to tell you how much I paid on my Mac Pro. But, I will say, it's been extremely dependable.
I can imagine, I also switched when Vista came out, it was early in my days of production so I worked hard and started small

bought a little white MacBook, then a dual core pre-unibody MacBook Pro, then this 2011 MacBook Pro which costed me a whopping $2500 with the student discount and 8GB RAM from OWC

this MBP is now probably worth less than a grand after less than two years of use so I'm just going to keep it for Traktor and all my Live 8 projects using AUs since don't want to lose the ability to revisit those just in case

it was having mad overheating issues until I opened it up and replaced the original thermal paste which was a disgrace, slobbered all over the god damn place, thanks to that and Apple horrible heat displacement design I now have a damaged desecrate graphics card, why would they even put an ATI on these things knowing that they run hot?!

I'll never get my head around the fact that they thought it was a good idea to have the CPU and discrete GPU run on the same heatsink, if one overheats then the other does too, so now my ATI graphics chop causes temperatures go over 190ยบ when it's enabled

I'm just gonna get this thing with Cubase 7 and forget this ever happened

G750JW - Notebooks & Ultrabooks - ASUS
Old 18th July 2013 | Show parent
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grooveminister View Post
Delay-compensation is actually very good in logic!
I had to mix an album that came with 3 kick mikes and 2 snare mics, so I bussed them together before going to the final drumbuss, everything was properly corrected including aux sends.
I was positively surprised, because I've never tried the buss to buss to master routing before, and I was using plugins with high latency (e.g. UAD).
My experience says you were lucky. Try a few more routings around a couple more blocks and it quickly goes to a place where it is very hard to keep the audio sounding clear. IME
Old 18th July 2013 | Show parent
  #29
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Cubase is Dual Platform

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post
Well, or it becomes Hackintosh time.

Does it actually make any sense to run Cubase on Windows inside Parallels? Or basically, if one had a Hackintosh, couldn't one switch from running proper OSX to proper Windows (obviously not at the same time) instead?

Because your figures will be exactly the same for that, so basically one could build that extremely powerful 6 core server brain beast so that you could run either OS on it and keep your choices open.......
Like most powerful programs, it would suck using parallels. But, why use parallels at all. Cubase runs on both PC or Mac. If you do music as a "hobby" feel free to use a Hakintosh, but if people pay you, I wouldn't both. Why worry about a "kext" crash during a tracking session. That would be embarrassing.
Old 18th July 2013 | Show parent
  #30
Quote:
Originally Posted by thehightenor View Post
I priced up a new PC workstation for Cubase 7 based on

6 core intel CPU
64GB RAM
128GB SSD for OS
512GB SSD for samples
2 x 3TB hard drives for audio and DATA
and a 27" 2560x1440 Dell screen

and it's the same price as a 4GB i5 27" iMac here in the UK!

It crazy really, the above PC workstation with Cubase 7 is a very, very powerful music production workstation capable of producing a very detailed album production.

The iMac (to me personally) is a very nice office desktop computer (I know coz I use one for my home office)

Currently PC's are very powerful with an outstanding performance to cost ratio, of course if you don't like Windows then it's a non starter.

I must be honest though, I'm sure the new Mac Pro will be very powerful indeed, however it will have a price tag here in the UK beyond anything I am prepared to pay for a PC.
I was gonna put something similar together but the place I'm moving into in a week won't have enough room for a desk, oh well! for $1400 I can get a similar laptop which is about half of what a less powerful MBP the same old overheating issues would cost me
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