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Logic Pro X: What DID we want? DAW Software
Old 17th July 2013
  #1
Gear Nut
 

Thread Starter
Logic Pro X: What DID we want?

Hello Logic Pro users,

we all waited for 4 years on the newest version of Logic Pro.
Several (loooong) topics has been spend on all possible features we wished it should have, and now it's finally here.

What it became:
For me it became what some of us were afraid of...a pro version of Garageband and adding new features on top of the old (slightly updated) user interface.

What I hoped for:
Somehow I wished they would have made the same 'mistake' as they did with Final Cut Pro X: write a whole new program from scratch with a professional new look and feel, mainly focused on usability.


Did your expectations and wishes came true?
Let's hear!
Old 17th July 2013
  #2
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Rufuss Sewell's Avatar
Yesses:

Track stacks. I basically requested this exact feature several years ago on the big Logic 10 thread. Very happy to see it.

Flex pitch: I'll probably still use Melodyne for the big stuff, but I'm super happy to see this for small thongs that aren't worth exporting to Melodyne.

iPad controller: Should have been available on day one of the iPad release, but alas it makes me very happy today.

Retina compatibility: Finally!

Midi effects! Can't wait to arp my Jupiter 8!!!

They added most of my biggies. I'll see if the plug in menu is customizable or if you're still stuck by manufacturer... which is the least intuitive way to group effects. I'm sure I'll have some complaints by tomorrow hehe.
Old 17th July 2013
  #3
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The Beatsmith's Avatar
 

Old 17th July 2013
  #4
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I don't honestly know if they added my number one thing or not, and I have a thread up about it. I wanted better workflow for writing drums parts, which I thought would come in the form of a refreshed Ultrabeat and hopefully a dedicated drum step editor.

I'm not sure yet if Drummer will work for me or not, or even if there is a step editor yet.

The second thing I assumed was coming was much closer workflow with Final Cut. I had thought that Logic would be able to handle more than one video track and even do simple edits of video as well. This kind of seems like a pretty serious lack, to me... maybe not to anyone else.

It's really too early to say, though. I haven't even used it yet, or even bought it.
Old 17th July 2013
  #5
Gear Nut
 

Thread Starter
I assumed they would went towards Final Cut Pro X, to attract more (professional) Protools users...

Having said this, it's one big disappointment to me, especially after waiting 4 years. The result of their 'hard' work is nothing more then a playground for garageband users going 'pro'.
Old 17th July 2013
  #6
Lives for gear
 

I'm withholding judgement... it does seem like they went in a direction more towards composing and not towards trying to be the DAW of choice in professional studios. Like, it seems as if they've decided not to take on Pro Tools in the marketplace, if that makes sense, and rather do their own thing. Which if you think about it, is kind of how they have priced and marketed it.

On the other hand, though, it's not like it was lacking a lot even at version 9. It's been pretty ahead of the curve, although now it feels like they are only caught up with how their competitors reacted to Logic.

It's just that I don't expect to see Logic doing any tracking in a professional studio any more, and I don't really expect to hear about it doing the soundtrack to a whole lot of feature films at the moment.
Old 17th July 2013
  #7
Can't we stop that GarageBand Pro NONSENSE. It is really getting old. Are some features/layout borrowed? yes of course. This is the same as all these idiots who were bitching about FCPx was an iMovie Pro.

Can we just create a separate thread for GarageBand Pro complainers so we can keep them quarantined?

My first impression:
I thought too that they would a pull a more aggressive FCPx approach. I was hoping for but at the same time afraid that they would overdo it somehow. I'm glad that they stayed a bit more conservative.

Nice new features (including Logic Remote) but some big disappointments:
Same old EXS24 (this is outrageous). Glad that they kept the environment, but hoped they would redo it a bit more than just a paint job.

Where is the input of the acquisition of Redmatica. Wasn't that the hint for something big: New EXS24 plus best Sample Editor on earth. Obviously not ready yet.
Old 17th July 2013
  #8
Lives for gear
 

I found everyone's bitching about Final Cut Pro X to be complete nonsense, that was a complete re-imagining of the software and I think they nailed it. I know there were some glaring omissions, but the workflow of the thing is fantastic.

I found myself wondering if Logic would get the same treatment, and it seems there are some nice workflow improvements. On the other hand, though, Logic in my opinion hardly suffered from poor workflow. Maybe I just know it the best (I do), but it looks like a great thing improved slightly from where I sit.

Still, though... while Logic X is not Garage Band Pro, it also seems like they've declined to take on Avid's Pro Tools directly, you know? I'm not talking about features v. features, here, I'm mainly discussing the marketing, what they feel their customer base wants.

Well, Avid doesn't have any idea what their customers want anymore, and it seems that Apple has decided that Logic doesn't need to rule the diminishing world of professional studios and high end mastering outfits, and instead reposition it to prosumers, composers and the like.
Old 17th July 2013
  #10
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Mal View Post
Still, though... while Logic X is not Garage Band Pro, it also seems like they've declined to take on Avid's Pro Tools directly, you know? I'm not talking about features v. features, here, I'm mainly discussing the marketing, what they feel their customer base wants.

Well, Avid doesn't have any idea what their customers want anymore, and it seems that Apple has decided that Logic doesn't need to rule the diminishing world of professional studios and high end mastering outfits, and instead reposition it to prosumers, composers and the like.
I agree. If they're looking at anyone, perhaps it's Ableton and Live's kind of "one-stop-shop" approach, where you use the program for more than just hitting record and moving wave files around.

If you want something where you can hit record and make tracks, there are a million different options out there (including Logic!) It's cool to differentiate.
Old 17th July 2013
  #11
Lives for gear
Personally I wanted a new audio engine.

One to match the smoothness and professionalism of Cubase or Nuendo.

No more 3 second delay when I press mute and the classic "Logic Hiccups"

I love MIDI in Logic, for me nothing has ever come close for speed of composing - and even with Cubase 7 advanced MIDI features I'm still quicker in Logic, however I stopped doing audio in Logic a few years back.

I really wanted a proper "fresh code" update that reflected waiting 4 years -in the same way Avid have a new audio engine for PT11.

Gain handles on clips, VCA's etc etc .... there's a few things.

I think this LPX release and the new Mac Pro is the end of Apple for pro audio in my studio. I'll keep an iMac with LPX for compatibility with clients but Cubase 7 and a 64GB PC workstation seem the correct way forward for me.

I really thought LPX was going to be my return to Logic for all my music production needs - I'm still surprised by the fact nothing fundamental has changed.
Old 17th July 2013
  #12
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degas's Avatar
 

Hoped for dual mono and independent pan sliders for stereo tracks.
Old 17th July 2013
  #13
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nativeaudio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Logic Pro X: What DID we want?
That's properly documented over 100+ pages in the "Logic 10 - what do you want?" thread, isn't it?
Old 17th July 2013
  #14
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by fastconcept View Post
What I hoped for:
Somehow I wished they would have made the same 'mistake' as they did with Final Cut Pro X: write a whole new program from scratch with a professional new look and feel, mainly focused on usability.
This was what I was hoping for too! I love FCPX and was hoping they would somehow intertwine the two apps making Logic X the perfect audio companion to FCPX.
Old 17th July 2013
  #15
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by nativeaudio View Post
That's properly documented over 100+ pages in the "Logic 10 - what do you want?" thread, isn't it?
Hi nativeaudio

I'm very interested in your thoughts on Logic Pro X.

Are you pleased with it?

I just watched some MacPro video's and there does seem to be some really good things added feature wise for creativity, which I know is what you wanted to see.


Best
tht

EDIT .... no worries - I see you've now commented in the main thread :-)
Old 17th July 2013
  #16
Lives for gear
 

I would have liked some some modernization of their useful but often outdated stock plug ins. Some are still far better than the competition.

Better metering, get rid of the way it buffers so edits take about 4 bars to play.

That's all.

No doubt someone will rage about this post and my freakish unique desires

Transposing audio clips and their gain ala S1 would really not have gone amiss, considering the amount of use L9 get's within Drum and Bass as a whole.
Old 17th July 2013
  #17
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nativeaudio's Avatar
 

Quote:
there does seem to be some really good things added feature wise for creativity, which I know is what you wanted to see
Please enlighten me! :-)
Old 17th July 2013
  #18
Gear maniac
 

Pros don't need 35 gigs of pre-made crap
Auto-tune for musicians who cannot play or sing properly
They don't need fancy instrument images that take 10% of the screen
To be told their creativity has been "enhanced" with a stupid computer program

They need:
proper multicore support when using NI Kontakt and on input monitoring
A more precise mixer with adjustable tail for the peaks
The ability to reorganize tracks in the mixer independently of the arrangement view
Better adjusted automation curves
Unlimited midi-patching and the end of forced omni
The return of Logic as a MTC master and not only slave
More monitoring options
A faster interface, non-lagging
Backward compatibility with older project (32-bit compatibility)
A guarantee of Eucon compatibility
Old 17th July 2013
  #19
Lives for gear
 

Yes, anyone who needs pitch tune or studio drums, in a professional environment, will have them and better.
Old 17th July 2013
  #20
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by nativeaudio View Post
Please enlighten me! :-)
Well "cheesy" names and descriptions for the drummers aside (which I'm sure even you think is plain silly in a professional application) I think Drummer is a cool tool if someone can't programme drums and wants some instant ideas on the fly.

Track stacks look good too .... no?

The new retro synth looks very good too considering it's free, the library looks easier to grab a sound from, MIDI plugins also look very good.

There's some good stuff in the Score too.

You know I actually like the cleaner interface, really if Apple had looked at the audio engine and done more for the pro side of engineering, I could be easily tempted back to the fold for my own musical output.

It might not be a "wow this is stunning" Logic X as I expected .... but it is a nice upgrade on some levels. I do think giving the drummers names was daft though, can't imagine what Apple were thinking on that one.
Old 17th July 2013
  #21
Geariophile
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xill View Post
Pros don't need 35 gigs of pre-made crap
Auto-tune for musicians who cannot play or sing properly
They don't need fancy instrument images that take 10% of the screen
To be told their creativity has been "enhanced" with a stupid computer program

They need:
proper multicore support when using NI Kontakt and on input monitoring
A more precise mixer with adjustable tail for the peaks
The ability to reorganize tracks in the mixer independently of the arrangement view
Better adjusted automation curves
Unlimited midi-patching and the end of forced omni
The return of Logic as a MTC master and not only slave
More monitoring options
A faster interface, non-lagging
Backward compatibility with older project (32-bit compatibility)
A guarantee of Eucon compatibility
Pretty good list. I'll add making the routing more flexible, so you can send the actual channel out to several places at once, a la Reaper or basically like a desk with group buttons AND a L-R button on it. That would save so much mess with sends. And PDC that works every time, so you can actually utilise that routing properly without phase wash. But hey, this is the fantasy list now and it's over. Apple doesn't serve pro's anymore. Not music ones anyway. Maybe the target group is too small by now.....lol
Old 17th July 2013
  #22
Gear interested
 

I can't believe they didn't update the EXS24.
Old 17th July 2013
  #23
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nativeaudio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thehightenor View Post
Well "cheesy" names and descriptions for the drummers aside (which I'm sure even you think is plain silly in a professional application) I think Drummer is a cool tool if someone can't programme drums and wants some instant ideas on the fly.

Track stacks look good too .... no?

The new retro synth looks very good too considering it's free, the library looks easier to grab a sound from, MIDI plugins also look very good.

There's some good stuff in the Score too.

You know I actually like the cleaner interface, really if Apple had looked at the audio engine and done more for the pro side of engineering, I could be easily tempted back to the fold for my own musical output.

It might not be a "wow this is stunning" Logic X as I expected .... but it is a nice upgrade on some levels. I do think giving the drummers names was daft though, can't imagine what Apple were thinking on that one.
The composing/songwriting features I miss are directly related to creating good songs, so even if Stacks are good and Drummer is good for those who look for none-home-made drum tracks, and even if he interface look better and cleaner, other relevant programs have had features directly related to songwriting/composing for years which this Logic version isn't addressing.

There are some improvements in Score as well, but in general, the score development is extremely modest, especially if you look at discussions between score users about what they/we actually miss in Logic.
Survey about Logic's score editor

Logic 9's and Logic 10's score improvement list is almost chemically free from including ideas from the survey linked to above,which is a result of a discussion about Logic's score editor some years ago. Meanwhile Steinberg has hired the Sibelius team, Avid tries to renew Sibelius and so on.

And - most of the ideas which would have been nice to see in the Score editor would have been useful in the other editors as well. So it's not so much about Score as such, but about helpful tools to develop good, unique musical ideas. Partially as a result of the loop trend that has been going on for some years now, media is full of great produced, good sounding butIMHO boring songs made by people who don't even think of music as songs anymore, just like all music was overly quantized some years ago, until DAWs evolved to accommodate for more human timing.


I have nothing against including many new factory loops or the 'Drummer' etc (although I doubt I'll use these things) - I've just found that this time, there isn't much in there relevant to the kind og ideas and suggestions (relevant to songwriting/composition) users like myself have been hoping for.

This is all about what Apple is focusing on. The depressing part is that most of the things I'd like to have seen in Logic X are really simple things which as far as I can tell would be easy to implement - but which still have been ignored.

Of course we can create good songs without a DAW. But since I have a DAW, I want it to be as useful as possible!
Old 17th July 2013
  #24
Lives for gear
 

Lots of stuff I wanted made it in there, pitch fix, arp and other midi plugins, etc. I don't buy into the whole GB pro nonsense, it seems pretty clear that Apple wants to keep pro users while attracting newbies as well, and has a good strategy to do it.

The big one I miss is multiple videos in one session. It just doesn't seem like it should be that hard to get working.

openCL would be great although that may come later with an update when the new Mac Pro is released.

And the big question for me is how well it runs and how many of the bugs that annoy me are fixed.
Old 17th July 2013
  #25
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Cover'd's Avatar
Here you go, this should at least go some way towards what everyone feels they deserve:

Old 17th July 2013
  #26
other than what they added, I was mostly hoping for non-destructive audio editing

would have been cool if the new drummer thing was more like Live's drum racks, then it would have made some serious damage, otherwise it is just another acoustic drums plug-in

Quote:
Originally Posted by t0rben View Post
I can't believe they didn't update the EXS24.
I can in a way because, as we all know, Kontakt is pretty much the industry standard and perhaps they didn't want to waste money competing? but then again they spent their efforts on a acoustic drum plug-in like if we didn't have enough of those already

why didn't they do a serious upgrade to EXS24 and with the new drummer thing incorporated into that? it makes little sense really
Old 17th July 2013
  #27
Gear addict
 

I'm a little disappointed they didn't have an iPad stripped down version like Cubasis.
Old 17th July 2013
  #28
Lives for gear
 

I think the difference between EXS and other plugins is that EXS really needs third party support to thrive. Why would a developer make an EXS library when only Logic users can use it, as opposed to Kontakt? And even for a user, EXS is nice for creating simple custom things, but for anything more advanced, doing it in Kontakt makes it useful on other DAW software.

Frankly, now that I have Kontakt, even if Apple made EXS even better than that, I still probably wouldn't use it for anything but Apple's content in that format.

Now if they did a huge update to EXS and also sold it as a cross platform AU/VST plugin…but that's not gonna happen.
Old 17th July 2013
  #29
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Schmeckitup's Avatar
 

Gain handles with visual updates to the waveform display. So simple, so useful.
Old 17th July 2013
  #30
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Live fades too, you need to stop start to get them active.
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