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Anyone Using Direct Monitoring Apogee Ensemble and Element interface integration?
Old 6th February 2019
  #1
Gear Nut
 
ApogeeDigital's Avatar
Anyone Using Direct Monitoring Apogee Ensemble and Element interface integration?

Hello All,

Just wanted to see how many of you are using Logic Pro X with the Direct Monitoring integration with Apogee Ensemble or Elements?!

Direct Monitoring in Logic Pro X Eliminates Latency - Apogee Electronics

What are your thoughts?!

All the Best,

Chris Shapiro
Apogee Electronics
Old 8th February 2019
  #2
Gear Nut
 
brmusician's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ApogeeDigital View Post
Hello All,

Just wanted to see how many of you are using Logic Pro X with the Direct Monitoring integration with Apogee Ensemble or Elements?!

Direct Monitoring in Logic Pro X Eliminates Latency - Apogee Electronics

What are your thoughts?!

All the Best,

Chris Shapiro
Apogee Electronics
Hello, Chris. I had a talk with a Chris from Apogee's support chat who helped me a lot with using this feature. Actually I used to apply effects in the same track where interface input comes in, but I think the right approach for direct monitoring is by sending the input signal (in the "sends" section of the mixer) to a separate bus, so I can mix direct monitoring with processed input, right? Thank you.

-------
P.S. and off-topic: I'd like to know if is it possible to use an external processing unit (with analog jacks) with Apogee Element and how could I "bind" a Logic bus to that unit, so anything I would send to that bus would be processed by the external unit.
Old 9th February 2019
  #3
I've thought about ditching my Apollo for this - just haven't done it quite yet...
Old 19th February 2019
  #4
Gear Nut
 
snakkes's Avatar
Direct Monitoring integration is the best ting that's happend in my studio for ages! When I need to go into a mix and record some small things I don't have to worry about latency any more and turning of plugins. I even get to keep the vocal fx when turing on direct monitoring.
Old 19th February 2019
  #5
Gear Addict
 
Jay Asher's Avatar
 

I use it with my Element 24 and it works great.
Old 19th February 2019
  #6
Gear Nut
 
brmusician's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by snakkes View Post
Direct Monitoring integration is the best ting that's happend in my studio for ages! When I need to go into a mix and record some small things I don't have to worry about latency any more and turning of plugins. I even get to keep the vocal fx when turing on direct monitoring.
Don't your older interfaces have direct monitoring? That is, the low end interfaces I know have a knob named "Mix" or something so I can blend direct signal with signal that comes from DAW. I just didn't understand what did you mean in "best thing that happened...", since it's a feature that was implemented in some way to most interfaces.
Old 19th February 2019
  #7
Gear Nut
 
snakkes's Avatar
Well it works in a different way than a mix knob on the preamp. With this I get the dry direct signal, and the reverb and delays when I record. When I am in a mix and need the buffer size to be set to full, I get no latency and great sound. And it is more conviniet having a button on a channel strip in logic, than it is to go inside apogee control to set up a mix. Maybe it's just me, but it has made my workflow easier And with the new dsp plugins it really give me great sound to record with when it is set up right
Old 19th February 2019
  #8
Gear Nut
 
brmusician's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by snakkes View Post
Well it works in a different way than a mix knob on the preamp. With this I get the dry direct signal, and the reverb and delays when I record. When I am in a mix and need the buffer size to be set to full, I get no latency and great sound. And it is more conviniet having a button on a channel strip in logic, than it is to go inside apogee control to set up a mix. Maybe it's just me, but it has made my workflow easier And with the new dsp plugins it really give me great sound to record with when it is set up right
Yes, I think the Element differential is allowing blending direct/wet signal in Logic GUI without the need of setting an external knob, unless I forgot something.
Old 19th February 2019
  #9
Gear Nut
 
snakkes's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by brmusician View Post
Yes, I think the Element differential is allowing blending direct/wet signal in Logic GUI without the need of setting an external knob, unless I forgot something.
I am using the Ensemble thunderbolt 2. Don't know how the Element is set up
Old 7th March 2019
  #10
Apogee
 

Roger from Apogee here,

To follow up from Chris' original post, here are a few answers to questions posed.

The Direct button makes direct monitoring incredibly simple - click the button, and the channel strip is configured for direct monitoring with incredibly low latency. There's no need to open Logic Pro prefs and turn off Software Monitoring, no need to open Apogee Control software and configure a mixer - one click and you're done.

Because direct monitoring is integrated in Logic Pro, the channel strip fader and pan set both direct monitoring and playback levels - again, no need to open a separate mixing app.

Our recently released Apogee FX Rack plugins were designed to work with the Direct button - the plugins can run both on Apogee hardware DSP and natively in Logic Pro. Thanks to what we call DualPath monitoring, you instantiate and control the plugin in Logic Pro - processing is automatically mirrored on the direct monitoring path to maintain a consistent sound.

Adding reverb while recording is easy since Logic Pro X auxes remain active even when direct monitoring - you only have to set up your favorite Logic Pro reverb once, there's no need to set up a temporary reverb in a low latency mixer.

It's really quite a unique and simple workflow that isn't offered by any other system!
Roger
Old 7th March 2019
  #11
Gear Head
Why wouldn’t this be possible on a Symphony Mk 2? Do the Element and Ensemble have on-board DSP?

Maybe this feature could be a new Symphony module? Seems odd the the flagship product does not have this feature...
Old 15th March 2019
  #12
Here for the gear
 

I bought the Element 24 to replace my Firewire800 Ensemble which served me well for 9 years. I didn't buy the new Thunderbolt Ensemble because I just didn't need that many preamps and all that I/O. The Element 24 has more than exceeded my expectations. I am using direct monitoring and it's a game changer for my work flow. It is very easy to use and as previously stated, you can send effects for monitoring while you record. I don't have to mess with the buffer settings anymore and everything sounds better "on the phones" I also have the Apogee Control which I could also recommend. It's nice to be able to switch on/off monitors, turn on mics, set headphone levels without using a software mixer. I am using Logic and I know that the integration is particularly tight for that DAW. Not sure how it works with other DAWs One more thing: The mic pre turned out to be more impressive than I had expected. Absolutely gorgeous! Great Job Apogee on this one. Especially when you consider how inexpensive it is.
Old 18th March 2019
  #13
Here for the gear
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by stonzthro View Post
I've thought about ditching my Apollo for this - just haven't done it quite yet...
I did
Old 18th March 2019
  #14
Apogee
 

Concerning Symphony, we offer a SoundGrid option card to connect our flagship interface to the world of Waves plugins running on hardware DSP and natively in your DAW. The SoundGrid system is an excellent option for DSP processing and low latency monitoring.

Thanks David and Thomas for your votes of confidence!

Back to the original subject - I've made a video demonstrating the Direct button in action, eliminating latency. Check it out here:

YouTube

Roger - Apogee
Old 11th April 2019
  #15
Lives for gear
 
once a roadie's Avatar
 

So can a singer “sing into” compression and eq and hear it that way during the take? The demo video above is cool and I wonder if a more real world example of a vocalist adding tracks could also be depicted..
Old 11th April 2019
  #16
Gear Head
 

Direct monitoring has worked well for me with my element 46. I'd suggest creating some better documentation for FX Rack, however, as it was not intuitive that by clicking direct monitoring that the FX Rack plugins are automatically mirrored to the element. I spent a lot of time looking around the apogee control app trying to figure out how to add the FX Rack plugins there before finding out about the automatic mirroring with the direct button.

-Chris
Old 12th April 2019
  #17
Here for the gear
I have Ensemble Thunderbolt and it works great!
Old 15th April 2019
  #18
Gear Maniac
 
Schmeckitup's Avatar
 

It generally works great. Sometimes I hear input only when recording, sometimes it comes through all the time. Sometimes I can hear playback and sometimes I can’t. Logic weirdness, not Apogee. The precise settings seem just a little harder to pin down than I’d like them to be. Also sometimes I can punch in instantly and some times there’s a pause in playback. Might have something to do with what track is selected in Arrange but it’s not entirely consistent.
If you’re doing a bunch of different tracks with the same input and going back and forth between the tracks (as I will do when I’m layering harmonies) I haven’t found a way to keep the plugin response consistent as I switch tracks. Logic will also (what seems randomly) take tracks in and out of direct mode. The best solution for this may be to record to one track and drag the files elsewhere but I prefer jumping between them.
Generally I like the plugins and workflow. There’s just some Logic quirks around the edges.
Old 17th May 2019
  #19
Gear Nut
 

the element doesn't work

Quote:
Originally Posted by ApogeeDigital View Post
Hello All,

Just wanted to see how many of you are using Logic Pro X with the Direct Monitoring integration with Apogee Ensemble or Elements?!

Direct Monitoring in Logic Pro X Eliminates Latency - Apogee Electronics

What are your thoughts?!

All the Best,

Chris Shapiro
Apogee Electronics
yeah, why can't I hear? I'm not doing anything different, why can't I hear? Why did I just wrestle with the element? Why can't I hear myself? Please fix the bugs. all apogees over priced crap does this.

why can't I hear the mix through the head phones?
Old 18th May 2019
  #20
Apogee
 

Hi Justbass 4,

I know how frustrating it is to overcome issues when you're just trying to create, and I'm sure that Apogee Support can help you figure out what's wrong.

If you click the Chat button on our website, you'll have a truly skilled Apogee support person direct from headquarters on the other end.

www.apogeedigital.com

Feel free to DM me if you'd prefer,

thanks,

Roger
Apogee Electronics
Old 18th May 2019
  #21
Gear Maniac
 

this looks interesting.
do you have to turn on low latency mode still if youre running at a high buffer?
is it possible to add fx on the channel strip or will the fx signal be latent without low latency mode on?
Old 19th May 2019
  #22
Gear Maniac
 
Schmeckitup's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by benjiboko View Post
this looks interesting.
do you have to turn on low latency mode still if youre running at a high buffer?
is it possible to add fx on the channel strip or will the fx signal be latent without low latency mode on?
If you use Apogee Rack, link that plugin to your input channel and turn on Direct on the logic channel, then you will have near zero latency through effects at any buffer size.
Old 27th August 2019
  #23
Hi everyone. Sorry if this is not the right place to ask, but I am having issue with the Direct Motoring feature and Logic Pro X.

I have the apogee elements 24 and I use AmpliTube 4 effect. ( The result is the same when I use logic pro guitar effects ).

When I turn on the direct motoring feature, I only get the raw sound of the guitar.

And in normal mode the latency makes it nearly impossible to use .

I was able to make it work in the past, that’s why I'm not sure what I should do.
There was a recent update of logic pro x, do you think it is related to my issue ?


Thank you.


P.S.*: I have a macbook pro from 2013. 2,3 GHz Intel Core i7. 16 Go 1600 MHz DDR3. But I think it is powerful enough for Logic Pro X and Apogee elements right ?
Old 29th August 2019
  #24
Lives for gear
The DIRECT button routes the signal directly to the main output (or one of Apogees internal mixers) bypassing the DAW buffer and all VST/AU plugins for low latency monitoring. If you have an Element or Ensemble and you run the still Beta Dual Path FX plugins (EQ and Comp only) - you can add EEQ and Compression. There are no Guitar Amp sims or similar plugins that work with Direct monitoring. If you instantiate a SEND and turn DIRECT on the send will persist (add reverb etc) but the latency of the send will be what the DAW buffer is.

To my knowledge - it never went through the channel strip in your DAW with DIRECT engaged. I have no explanation why you would have seen it doing this with DIRECT ON. Maybe you used to run a lower DAW buffer in Logic.

Of course Apogee has since abandoned updates for the Dual Path feature - so this Beta may be the best we ever get :-)
Old 29th August 2019
  #25
Gear Addict
 
Jay Asher's Avatar
 

Well here is what I did today with the beta:

1. I plugged my mic into Input 1 on my Element 24 and in the FX rack turned on a Pultec and an Opto Compressor.

2. I opened Logic and a new project and created an audio channel strip set to input 1. Software Monitoring is on in Logic. I turned Direct Monitoring on and set the level, armed the record button and I could hear the Apogee plugins with no latency.

3. On the channel strip I instantiated a PSP 85 delay and I could hear it with no noticeable latency.

4.I opened a send and instantiated a PSP 2445 on the aux and sent to it. I could hear it with no noticeable latency.

5. I recorded a part and I hear the FX with no noticeable latency.
Old 29th August 2019
  #26
Lives for gear
^^^
Yes - thats the way it works - when all is well - fantastic and wonderful - 0.35ms RTL at 96kHz - I love it ! :-)

But... don't turn knobs too fast too often on Pultecs (uncontrolled noise on outputs) as well as host of other less harmful bugs. And don't try to install a new copy of the Beta on 10.14.5 or later (it won't install - installer not approved by Apple). Beta 2 came out (May 8th) 10 days before 10.14.5 was released. No update since (3.5 months) ...

PS - I was first answering the poster who was implying that the DIRECT button lets them monitor a VST/AU Amp sim at low latency. To my knowledge that is not and never was possible.
Old 29th August 2019
  #27
Gear Addict
 
Jay Asher's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ProPower View Post
^^^
Yes - thats the way it works - when all is well - fantastic and wonderful - 0.35ms RTL at 96kHz - I love it ! :-)

But... don't turn knobs too fast too often on Pultecs (uncontrolled noise on outputs) as well as host of other less harmful bugs. And don't try to install a new copy of the Beta on 10.14.5 or later (it won't install - installer not approved by Apple). Beta 2 came out (May 8th) 10 days before 10.14.5 was released. No update since (3.5 months) ...

It may well indeed be buggy, although I have not tried it at 96, happy at 48. And yes, I think I installed the beta before the last two Mojave updates, so probably 10.4.4.

But I still have faith that we will eventually get a less buggy version.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #28
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Asher View Post
It may well indeed be buggy, although I have not tried it at 96, happy at 48. And yes, I think I installed the beta before the last two Mojave updates, so probably 10.4.4.

But I still have faith that we will eventually get a less buggy version.
Please Apogee make FX rack dual path finally work ! I am on 10.4.5.
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