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Is Logic X worth using? Honestly..? Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 25th December 2016
  #1
Here for the gear
Is Logic X worth using? Honestly..?

This is not a sarcastic or biased post, perhaps biased but more so urgent.
My last computer finally died, I replaced it with a 2016 iMac (2.8 GHZ, 8GB).

Before I go purchasing a copy of X, could anyone reassure me that it will run okay? I record minimally so I don't hog a lot of memory in general so with my last computer it didn't take much to run 9. Had its moments but otherwise was alright.

If not, would you *gulp* switch to Ableton or Reason? I am most familiar with Reason & Pro Tools after Logic, but save Pro Tools for when I work in a real studio not my personal space.

Thank you for reading, all opinions-criticisms welcome!
Old 25th December 2016
  #2
Gear Nut
 

I have a 2012 Mac mini i7 and that runs Logic Pro X and Pro Tools 12 perfectly. Your iMac is slightly faster than mine I think so would be fine. I can get nearly 100 tracks with effects running on Logic. Pro Tools never misses a beat either. I do have 16gb ram so you may want to upgrade to that eventually. LPX is a steal at £149.

Merry Christmas btw

Matt
Old 25th December 2016
  #3
Registered User
The reason I stay away from Logic is because (as far as I know) you can't quantise the ends of notes. I consider that a fundamental midi process that any decent sequencer offers, and can't understand how Logic can not offer this ...
Old 25th December 2016
  #4
Lives for gear
 
gutr2's Avatar
 

Hey, not sure where the doubt is coming from?
Logic X is not perfect, but not only is it much more stable than previous versions but also likely the most popular DAW out there by far, so I'd say you can have as much reassurance as one can have to run a DAW.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nny View Post
This is not a sarcastic or biased post, perhaps biased but more so urgent.
My last computer finally died, I replaced it with a 2016 iMac (2.8 GHZ, 8GB).

Before I go purchasing a copy of X, could anyone reassure me that it will run okay? I record minimally so I don't hog a lot of memory in general so with my last computer it didn't take much to run 9. Had its moments but otherwise was alright.

If not, would you *gulp* switch to Ableton or Reason? I am most familiar with Reason & Pro Tools after Logic, but save Pro Tools for when I work in a real studio not my personal space.

Thank you for reading, all opinions-criticisms welcome!
Old 25th December 2016
  #5
Gear Addict
 
Little David's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwi View Post
The reason I stay away from Logic is because (as far as I know) you can't quantise the ends of notes. I consider that a fundamental midi process that any decent sequencer offers, and can't understand how Logic can not offer this ...
You mean quantise note length? Because you easily can.
Old 25th December 2016
  #6
Lives for gear
 
nativeaudio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Little David View Post
You mean quantise note length? Because you easily can.
How do you do it?
Old 25th December 2016
  #7
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Little David View Post
You mean quantise note length? Because you easily can.
He means to quantize the endings of multiple notes to the grid.
That´s something different, then quantizing multiple notes to a certain note length.
Quantizing the endings to grid is not possible in Logic.
Old 25th December 2016
  #8
I ran a session last weekend using LogicX and hated every second using this program.
Old 25th December 2016
  #9
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Mixwell View Post
I ran a session last weekend using LogicX and hated every second using this program.
I´m running sessions using Logic since ca. 1993 (version 1.5) and loved every second using this program.
Old 25th December 2016
  #10
Is LogicX worth using here? The Answer is No...
Old 25th December 2016
  #11
If you are creating music, Logic pro is the thing. You can't go wrong with that. If you are recording or mixing audio, you might be using something else as well as Logic. Logic could be the instrument itself.
Old 25th December 2016
  #12
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Fernand's Avatar
@nny you're asking if it will run OK on your iMac? OsX is a big system, and keeps getting bigger. That's normal. Logic X is a big DAW, and keeps getting bigger. That's normal. Sample libraries are big, and getting bigger, more 24 bit sampling, articulations. NI Session Strings used to be 1.7GB. The newer Session Strings Pro is 32GB. That's for the better.

Programmers need to work faster, meaning more templates, precompiled classes, fatter stuff all around, memory is cheap, clever hand-tuned low level code is very time consuming, i.e. expensive. So everything gets fatter.

The way we use our machines is different. I keep a lot of stuff open for reference, lots of tabs in browsers, this and that. It's better that way, I don't have to keep re-opening things.

My phone has 3 GB of RAM, 32GB of flash and a 64GB micro-SD card. And I'm having to shuffle and prune. It's just how it is.

Here is a pretty modest project on a 16GB mac pro with most tracks already bounced to stems, that's on the verge of spilling into Swap, at which point everything seriously slows down.

http://i448.photobucket.com/albums/q...psd9tmodrs.jpg

I hesitated but finally upgraded this old 3,1 mac pro to 28GB, will probably go to 40GB or just all the way to 64GB to prolong its useful life. I understand that some people work with small stuff, looping apple loops, MIDI tracks playing an FM VI, etc. I'm not deliberately doing elephantine wall-building. It's just the general direction. Want a nice Kontakt string section w/ articulations? It takes gigs and it never unloads. A good piano like Seven Seas? 12 GB.

So the bad news is this: I think the answer is no. Pardon my verbose reply, but I feel very strongly about this, and want to explain. It's a new tactic of Apple to be selling computers with hardwired small memory ceilings. They know users can get by with a 2016 CPU for a good while. But will need more RAM much sooner. If it cannot be upgraded it will have to be replaced, like a toaster or a TV set. At the Apple store they told me that if I wanted non-soldered upgradeable anything on an iMac, I'd better grab one now, as the newer ones will be coming all "preconfigured", i.e. locked down. That was in October.

Sure, Logic X can open up in OsX 10.12 on an 8GB machine. And you can work a Logic X project that does everything pretty minimally. Provided you close browser sessions etc first. And that's about it. Ableton can work in tight memory if you don't use fat libraries etc. Maybe Live is better at unloading Kontakt RAM? Reason I haven't used in a while. If you can't upgrade your memory to at least 16GB you'll have to make trade-offs ... but then again I have no idea what you're aiming to do.

Last edited by Fernand; 25th December 2016 at 02:55 PM..
Old 25th December 2016
  #13
Gear Guru
 
Muser's Avatar
Logic had a Q-Length in the extended quantise section. However, I think Logics quantise may well be referencing Templates to obtain it's source values. so a default 16th setting is dependent on whatever that Template has set as the source values.

so in that case, if the 16th Template is setup like A: e.g. akin to legato to the next 16th grid
the note Q-Length set to 100% should quantise to a full 16th in Length.

if B: a 32nd in Length.

I'd assume the Default 16th Template is A:

A:
--I--I--I--I--I--I--I--I--I--I--I--I--I--I--I--I
B:
- I- I- I- I- I- I- I- I- I- I- I- I- I- I- I- I- I


you can make your own Templates from any selected part, but it used to be the case that the source data for any user quantise Templates would have to have the source parts from which the Template was referenced. I used to have a Autoload / Template song which had my source quantise Templates in a folder track. maybe that has changed now, but any song you load is essentially a Template song which contains the quantise Templates for that song as well. along with Logics own default quantise Templates.

when any DAW or application boots, it loads some kind or another of Autoload song Template. complete with internal default Templates and setting etc. Logic is no different in that regard.

Quote:
Advanced Quantization:*Q-Length: This parameter (also expressed as a percentage value) determines how the lengths of quantized notes are affected by the equivalent note lengths (notes at the same position) of a template MIDI region. A value of 0% has no effect, while at 100%, the notes adopt the exact note lengths of the template region. Negative values alter note lengths further, resulting in a more significant deviation from the template.
If you take an example where the starts are loose / un-quantised and you only want the lengths quantised and not the starts you could theoretically have
Q-Strength=0 / Q-Length=100

that wouldn't result in a snapped to grid note Off. it should only result in a fixed Length event which is based on the source midi quantise Template.

to achieve an equivalent to a note off quantise, you'd probably also have to have a Transformer Template ready to apply which forces all velocity zero events to quantised sub position grid. velocity zero is generally interpreted as a note off. sometimes keyboards produce independent note off events with their own note off velocity value from 0-127. those are different specification. many DAW's have potentially been using Note ON at value 0 events as Note OFF events for quite some time.

It may be that someone could make a midi plugin script to force this activity in real time but unless it is pre-emptive it may only be able to achieve a note length change to the nearest NEXT note off quantise position.
Old 25th December 2016
  #14
Gear Nut
 

My Mac Mini i7 2.3ghz Quad Core runs Logic X and Pro Tools 12 perfectly. Yes they are getting bigger by the day but they run literally perfect and I never ever have any issues at all. I had a 65 track session running yesterday for instance with lots of processing (reverb, modulation, delay, eq, tremolo etc) and it didn't miss a beat. Pro Tools is very similar.

Cubase Pro on the other hand has had multiple crashes hence why I stopped using it.
Old 25th December 2016
  #15
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fernand View Post
@nny you're asking if it will run OK on your iMac? OsX is a big system, and keeps getting bigger. That's normal. Logic X is a big DAW, and keeps getting bigger. That's normal. Sample libraries are big, and getting bigger, more 24 bit sampling, articulations. NI Session Strings used to be 1.7GB. The newer Session Strings Pro is 32GB. That's for the better

Sure, Logic X can open up in OsX 10.12 on an 8GB machine. And you can work a Logic X project that does everything pretty minimally. Provided you close browser sessions etc first. And that's about it. Ableton can work in tight memory if you don't use fat libraries etc. Maybe Live is better at unloading Kontakt RAM? Reason I haven't used in a while. If you can't upgrade your memory to at least 16GB you'll have to make trade-offs ... but then again I have no idea what you're aiming to do.
This. The problem isn't Logic, it's the limits of apple machines. Apple wants to push serious users to the drastically more expensive Mac Pro, which in many respects is overkill for audio. An iMac with more than 8 gigs would work well
Old 25th December 2016
  #16
Lives for gear
 
AlphaDingo's Avatar
 

Check out studio one. You might like that a LOT more.
Old 25th December 2016
  #17
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stratology's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Mixwell View Post
I ran a session last weekend using LogicX and hated every second using this program.
If you were a little more specific about the issues you ran into, someone might actually be able to help.




Regarding the OP's question:
Think of a DAW as a toolbox. In terms of the number of tools, Logic is arguably the best in the industry (lots of plug ins, virtual instruments, loops, a sampler, drum machines, etc.).
The quality of the tools in Logic Pro X is also quite good.


But: depending on your own workflow, a different DAW may suit your individual needs better. It really depends on what you're trying to do, and realistically, you can only evaluate a DAW after using it for some time, and becoming familiar with it.
Old 25th December 2016
  #18
I dont need "help"...The issue I had was that it was horrible.
Old 25th December 2016
  #19
Gear Maniac
 
fadein's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by nny View Post
This is not a sarcastic or biased post, perhaps biased but more so urgent.
My last computer finally died, I replaced it with a 2016 iMac (2.8 GHZ, 8GB).

Before I go purchasing a copy of X, could anyone reassure me that it will run okay? I record minimally so I don't hog a lot of memory in general so with my last computer it didn't take much to run 9. Had its moments but otherwise was alright.

If not, would you *gulp* switch to Ableton or Reason? I am most familiar with Reason & Pro Tools after Logic, but save Pro Tools for when I work in a real studio not my personal space.

Thank you for reading, all opinions-criticisms welcome!
I'd go with Ableton. Sure, Logic and Reason (for that matter) have nice graphics, but I prefer functional, clear GUI.
Old 25th December 2016
  #20
I switched to Logic after using PT for years and enjoyed every minute. Sure there were some bumps when Logic X came out but not having to pay money for PT upgrades made it worth it for me. Alchemy alone is worth the price of Logic IMHO.
Old 25th December 2016
  #21
Gear Head
 

i prefer Logic over any other DAW

Logic <3
Old 25th December 2016
  #22
Lives for gear
 
stratology's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Mixwell View Post
I dont need "help"...The issue I had was that it was horrible.

Thanks so much for the precise explanation of what you didn't like, and for all the details that so meticulously line out what is wrong with Logic.
Old 25th December 2016
  #23
Lives for gear
 
stratology's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Mixwell View Post
why do you even care?
Because saying something is 'good' or 'bad' or 'horrible' without saying why is not a meaningful contribution to a discussion. It communicates your own frustration, nothing else.


BTW, my main DAW is not Logic...
Old 25th December 2016
  #24
Lives for gear
I really like it, and don't find it horrible in anyway. It's immensely capable and comes with a lot of useful and well designed instruments. It's first rate

I do find it getting harder to run
Old 25th December 2016
  #25
Lives for gear
 

Classic GS thread of the kind. People ague about nothing and the OP has left the building for some time.

Merry Chrismas to everybody nonetheless...

KA
Old 26th December 2016
  #26
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by KorgAddict View Post
Classic GS thread of the kind. People ague about nothing and the OP has left the building for some time.

Merry Chrismas to everybody nonetheless...

KA
Merry Christmas.
Old 26th December 2016
  #27
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nny View Post
This is not a sarcastic or biased post, perhaps biased but more so urgent.
My last computer finally died, I replaced it with a 2016 iMac (2.8 GHZ, 8GB).

Before I go purchasing a copy of X, could anyone reassure me that it will run okay? I record minimally so I don't hog a lot of memory in general so with my last computer it didn't take much to run 9. Had its moments but otherwise was alright.

If not, would you *gulp* switch to Ableton or Reason? I am most familiar with Reason & Pro Tools after Logic, but save Pro Tools for when I work in a real studio not my personal space.

Thank you for reading, all opinions-criticisms welcome!
Take a look at GarageBand that came with your iMac.
You'll get an idea what you'll be getting into.

If you can create a project in GarageBand with no issues, you'll have no issues with Logic Pro X.
Old 26th December 2016
  #28
Lives for gear
 
stratology's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Mixwell View Post
Frustration is a good example of Logicx Vibe...
Sorry, I dont have time to explain why this DAW wasted hours of my time....

A DAW cannot waste your time .
You can waste your time by making a decision to work with a DAW you're not familiar with.

I'll never understand it when people portrait themselves as poor victims of evil software and software companies.



Saying why someone dislikes a DAW puts statements into context.

"I don't like this DAW because I run a business selling competitors' products that cost much more for fewer features" is an entirely different context than "I can't re-arrange tracks in the mixer" or "the EXS24 UI is less user friendly than that of Mach5".

Typing a short, concise statement like that takes about 5 seconds, the same amount of time as a meaningless rant.

Last edited by stratology; 26th December 2016 at 01:53 AM..
Old 26th December 2016
  #29
Gear Head
 
logicprose's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwi View Post
The reason I stay away from Logic is because (as far as I know) you can't quantise the ends of notes. I consider that a fundamental midi process that any decent sequencer offers, and can't understand how Logic can not offer this ...
Is this what you are trying to achieve? Not the quantizing of note length to itself - but rather quantizing the note ends so they end on a particular grid division....

Old 26th December 2016
  #30
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by logicprose View Post
Is this what you are trying to achieve? Not the quantizing of note length to itself - but rather quantizing the note ends so they end on a particular grid division....

Yes! How did you do this? In Cubase it as simple as Quantise Ends ... Cubase can do both, but I can't find this in Logic.

The reason I believe this is necessary is for programming bass in particular. The timing of the note Off is as important to the feel of the groove as the timing of the note On. If a part is played in a little sloppy, and perfect notes are required for an EDM feel - then it is possible for the note On to be a little off, but the note Off may have been perfect. But when quantising is applied it shifts both the note On and the note Off - keeping the length the same. That is just replacing one error for another. So what I like to do is to quantise the note Ons and then quantise the note Offs. Inevitable, some will be wrong, so I end up pulling notes around and snapping to the grid. I like to work exactly to the grid when i'm developing stuff - because the feel is going to change when I select different instruments. I can then conform the whole feel to something different - maybe sync it to some played in audio or whatever. But when i'm developing midi parts, I like to start off with perfectly gridded notes.
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