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Is Logic X worth using? Honestly..? Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 28th December 2016
  #91
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fadein's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by classictunz View Post
I'm still trying to figure how Love makes this better thank Logic? I personally think my iPad with the free Logic remote app is better for recording live takes. In this respect I still fail to realize how Live differs from my other daw?
Session view controlled by hardware. I did try it on Logic with its remote app, it's a pain in the butt navigation-wise etc. In Live one doesn't have to stop ever, which mimics a live session and helps to preserve the vibe. Btw, that's why it is called "Live" and its main flow is called "Session". It's just a different mode of thinking, which prioritise actual playing and not operating a computer.
Old 28th December 2016
  #92
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MusiKLover's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by fadein View Post
Session view controlled by hardware.
Yes, but he likes linear DAWs. It appears to be a nonissue for him, if I might step in or Classictunz. I know he gets a lot of this from Maschine too.
Old 28th December 2016
  #93
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Nico@SunnySide's Avatar
 

Long time Logic user here (from eMagic days up until 9, then recently X for client compatibility)

Produced quite a few albums, ep's in Logic 7-8-9, also wrote/arranged a full musical (150 minutes of music,soundbeds,fx---huge VI trackcount + between 16-48 audio tracks)

Jumped ship after years of buggy Logic 9 and insufficient updates/lacking features vs competition.

Had to get back to Logic X 9 months ago for clients who would bring sessions for mix/overdubs.

For music creation, it remains up there for traditional song structure build up (for all electronic genres, loop/samplebased Live is a step up imho), and from what I have seen with clients, X is very musician/songwriter friendly.

For mixing, it pretty much sucks, thanks to an antiquated audio engine that cannot handle cpu load/distribution correctly with modern macpros/mbp.

Note: we're talking medium to large sessions here, 48 tracks up to approx 160, with VI still in the mix, lots of plugins and automation data.

Example : in various sessions we would get a cpu overload warning. Upon inspection it would be 1 of the 16 cores overloading, while the remaining cores would be at 10-30%!!

Tried every trick, every forum advice, to no avail : only solution was to bounce in place tracks, while plenty of processor overhead still available...

Then there where two serious bugs workflow issues that neither I or the client have figured out :
- in heavy sessions some automation would not read unless playback from several bars in advance, eg you automate a word to be louder, double click the header for playback a bit before and automation was not read...
- in certain sessions, when copy pasting regions that were not exact in bars/beat lengths the copy would not end up at the exact start of a bar or beat, no matter what snap setting would be chosen, even without snap! For some moment we thought a few musicians didn't do a great job, upon further inspection when zooming it turned out the copied regions would not be accurate in their placement, even if you snap at a bar level: unacceptable!

For info, I have experience with Logic, Cubase, Ableton, Protools, Reaper.
Old 28th December 2016
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MusiKLover View Post
Yes, but he likes linear DAWs. It appears to be a nonissue for him, if I might step in or Classictunz. I know he gets a lot of this from too.
It's not like linear mode is missing in Live, right? For my part, I haven't found any terrible disadvantages there.
I would really like to see somebody does this live with Logic!

Old 28th December 2016
  #95
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MusiKLover's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Long time Logic user here (from eMagic days up until 9, then recently X for client compatibility)

Produced quite a few albums, ep's in Logic 7-8-9, also wrote/arranged a full musical (150 minutes of music,soundbeds,fx---huge VI trackcount + between 16-48 audio tracks)

Jumped ship after years of buggy Logic 9 and insufficient updates/lacking features vs competition.

Had to get back to Logic X 9 months ago for clients who would bring sessions for mix/overdubs.

For music creation, it remains up there for traditional song structure build up (for all electronic genres, loop/samplebased Live is a step up imho), and from what I have seen with clients, X is very musician/songwriter friendly.

For mixing, it pretty much sucks, thanks to an antiquated audio engine that cannot handle cpu load/distribution correctly with modern macpros/mbp.

Note: we're talking medium to large sessions here, 48 tracks up to approx 160, with VI still in the mix, lots of plugins and automation data.

Example : in various sessions we would get a cpu overload warning. Upon inspection it would be 1 of the 16 cores overloading, while the remaining cores would be at 10-30%!!

Tried every trick, every forum advice, to no avail : only solution was to bounce in place tracks, while plenty of processor overhead still available...

Then there where two serious bugs workflow issues that neither I or the client have figured out :
- in heavy sessions some automation would not read unless playback from several bars in advance, eg you automate a word to be louder, double click the header for playback a bit before and automation was not read...
- in certain sessions, when copy pasting regions that were not exact in bars/beat lengths the copy would not end up at the exact start of a bar or beat, no matter what snap setting would be chosen, even without snap! For some moment we thought a few musicians didn't do a great job, upon further inspection when zooming it turned out the copied regions would not be accurate in their placement, even if you snap at a bar level: unacceptable!

For info, I have experience with Logic, Cubase, Ableton, Protools, Reaper.
Ahem -- most serious "Mixers" do bounce-in-place, or as Pro-Toolers and UADers call it "Print Tracks." Sometimes they refer to it as committing to audio.

We can Print & Commit in Logic just as easily, and PT has its own MIDI issues. Not sure why you posted this or where you are going.

No one I know of, in Mixing or Mastering, does not Commit to Audio / Print Tracks / Bounce in Place (as Logic folk call it) in the PT community. There's even a Dave Pensado video (Into to Lair I Believe) where the folks are all jocularly chuckling about receiving Logic projects and ".bip" files as they are unique to out platform. Actually on second thought it must have been a Pensado's Place episode.

This video expresses this perspective well, from The RecordingRevolution:



Graham even mentions SFLOGICNINJA as an excellent resource. Perhaps you could consult him.
Old 28th December 2016
  #96
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MusiKLover's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by fadein View Post
It's not like linear mode is missing in Live, right? For my part, I haven't found any terrible disadvantages there.
I would really like to see somebody does this live with Logic!

I've said it before, will now again, Logic + Live is awesome.

Given my previous post, there is no reason the two together cannot be the Total, Comprehensive Mixing & Routing Solution.

Print Your Tracks to Audio, not you but venting
Old 28th December 2016
  #97
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fadein's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by MusiKLover View Post
I've said it before, will now again, Logic + Live is awesome.

Given my previous post, there is no reason the two together cannot be the Total, Comprehensive Mixing & Routing Solution.

Print Your Tracks to Audio, not you but venting
Live can do it all on its own. No need to "print" to audio, just make it audio in the first place, imo. In Live one may always turn it to midi
Old 28th December 2016
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fadein View Post
Live can do it all on its own. No need to "print" to audio, just make it audio in the first place, imo. In Live one may always turn it to midi
I get it

However, I was referring to those who complain of the same handling of the single core issue that plagues Live with MIDI too, not you. Cubase is horrendous for some on macOS for managing cores with large symphonic projects with multiple multitimbral instantiations of Kontakt, for instance. It's not just Logic.

Live is excellent with Audio. Session View conversions to the Arranger always involve printing audio, or reprinting as the case often is, but not always as MIDI will undergo the conversion too. You are correct -- the Audio-to-MIDI is insanely good in Live!
Old 28th December 2016
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post

- in certain sessions, when copy pasting regions that were not exact in bars/beat lengths the copy would not end up at the exact start of a bar or beat, no matter what snap setting would be chosen, even without snap! For some moment we thought a few musicians didn't do a great job, upon further inspection when zooming it turned out the copied regions would not be accurate in their placement, even if you snap at a bar level: unacceptable!

For info, I have experience with Logic, Cubase, Ableton, Protools, Reaper.
Mmm, relative vs absolute snap mode maybe??? If it was such a problem you could have set the region start directly on the event list, also... takes 2 seconds.

But you're here to bash Logic so I won't rain on your parade(ideal thread for it). Carry on.

KA
Old 28th December 2016
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fadein View Post
When there's a talk about DAW, it is usually about making music, not about restoration or mastering. Logic simply is not a modern tool. I own a copy of it still, but there's no use to it, there's simply nothing it can contribute to the music-making process more than Live can. Yes, very cool custom icons etc and some nostalgia touch, but no practical value.
All sequencers, Ableton, Logic, Cubase, Protools do nothing. It's up to the user to research and experiment with each to push what each can do.

You like Ableton, great, more power to you but I stick with Logic because it is a creative tool and it starts with MIDI for me.

One thing I'll point out is, Logic is just one version, not like Cubase, ProTools, Ableton where you have different versions that you'd have to purchase.

With Logic you get everything, maybe you don't want the Apple Loops, which I do since they can get you started with musical ideas as well, but the one thing about Logic that got me going was The Environment.

Here's a video showing some custom Logic Environment macros I created in Logic 9 that still run in Logic Pro X and with the MIDI-FX plug-in's in Logic Pro X, I can get even more creative.

That video shows me tweaking but at any point I can MIDI record and then just refine it even further as another Logic Pro X project.



Again, Logic didn't create these custom Logic Environment macros, I created them.

Last edited by ValliSoftware; 28th December 2016 at 09:13 PM.. Reason: typo
Old 28th December 2016
  #101
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Wow. Very impressive Valli. I'm loving LPX but still have a lot to learn. Thanks for the vid!
Old 28th December 2016
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ValliSoftware View Post

Here's a video showing some custom Logic Environment macros I created in Logic 9 that still run in Logic Pro X and with the MIDI-FX plug-in's in Logic Pro X, I can get even more creative.

That video shows me tweaking but at any point I can MIDI record and then just refine it even further as another Logic Pro X project.

Again, Logic didn't create these custom Logic Environment macros, I created them.
Very nice.
You don't have to purchase different Live versions, but you sure can. "Bare-bone" version for about $50 will have all the functionality needed for clip works and more, besides it comes bundled with all Live controllers for free. Logic used to have a little brother too, but it didn't survive uncle Apple's hugs and kisses. And of course, there's Garageband and MainStage now.
Old 28th December 2016
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fadein View Post
Very nice.
You don't have to purchase different Live versions, but you sure can. Bare-bone version for about $50 will have all the functionality needed for clip works and more, besides it comes bundled with all Live controllers for free. Logic used to have a little brother too, but it didn't survive uncle Apple's hugs and kisses. And of course, there's Garageband and MainStage now.
The equivilent for The Environment for Live is Max for Live which isn't available for Live Intro, which I have.
I wanted to see if I could port over what I did with the Logic Macros I created, but apparently you have to purchase Live Suite.
https://www.ableton.com/en/live/max-for-live/

Right now I'm in the process of working on some scripts for the Logic Scripter MIDI-FX plug-in that does pretty much what the Logic Macros I create does.

Again, I don't need to purchase anything more from Apple, everything is in Logic Pro X, I just need to create to get creative.
Old 28th December 2016
  #104
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fadein's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ValliSoftware View Post
The equivilent for The Environment for Live is Max for Live which isn't available for Live Intro, which I have.
I wanted to see if I could port over what I did with the Logic Macros I created, but apparently you have to purchase Live Suite.
https://www.ableton.com/en/live/max-for-live/

Right now I'm in the process of working on some scripts for the Logic Scripter MIDI-FX plug-in that does pretty much what the Logic Macros I create does.

Again, I don't need to purchase anything more from Apple, everything is in Logic Pro X, I just need to create to get creative.
OK, I see. It's a bummer. I rarely use Max, although, there is some interesting stuff for audio manipulation. I used environments a lot in the MIDI days, used also Koan software , which is sadly no longer around.
Old 29th December 2016
  #105
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Nico@SunnySide's Avatar
 

Ahem - my "seriousness" being questioned, because one on-topic post about a subject the OP specifically asks for : personal honest opinions on whether or not a software is worth using? Seriously?

Quote : "Not sure why you posted this" speaks volumes about the lack of understanding of what I posted, in what I assume to be correct English.

What in holy mackerel land makes you think I would not know the slightest thing about print, bounce, commit or else???

Let me rephrase : Logic good for musicians/songwriters.
Logic not so good for large session mixing, plagued with cpu issues.

This is my personal, honest opinion; whether or not one "sees where I am going with this" is besides the point.

As to my seriousness, I've managed almost 10 years around here avoiding responding in kind after being called out or judged by somebody who does not know the slightest bit about me, but here you go : you can check out my studio, and a list of credits.

Regarding bip/printing, not talking about VIs, about audio tracks - in huge track count sessions - where one plug spikes the cpu and renders further work troublesome, "unless" you bounce, which doesn't happen on same studio setup with heavy sessions in PT 12, Live 9, Reaper.

Only in Logic, which is a big downside, and one good reason to watch out if you are/ plan on using Logic for mixing.










Quote:
Originally Posted by MusiKLover View Post
Ahem -- most serious "Mixers" do bounce-in-place, or as Pro-Toolers and UADers call it "Print Tracks." Sometimes they refer to it as committing to audio.

We can Print & Commit in Logic just as easily, and PT has its own MIDI issues. Not sure why you posted this or where you are going.

No one I know of, in Mixing or Mastering, does not Commit to Audio / Print Tracks / Bounce in Place (as Logic folk call it) in the PT community. There's even a Dave Pensado video (Into to Lair I Believe) where the folks are all jocularly chuckling about receiving Logic projects and ".bip" files as they are unique to out platform. Actually on second thought it must have been a Pensado's Place episode.

This video expresses this perspective well, from The RecordingRevolution:



Graham even mentions SFLOGICNINJA as an excellent resource. Perhaps you could consult him.
Old 29th December 2016
  #106
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MusiKLover's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Ahem - my "seriousness" being questioned, because one on-topic post about a subject the OP specifically asks for : personal honest opinions on whether or not a software is worth using? Seriously?

Quote : "Not sure why you posted this" speaks volumes about the lack of understanding of what I posted, in what I assume to be correct English.

What in holy mackerel land makes you think I would not know the slightest thing about print, bounce, commit or else???

Let me rephrase : Logic good for musicians/songwriters.
Logic not so good for large session mixing, plagued with cpu issues.

This is my personal, honest opinion; whether or not one "sees where I am going with this" is besides the point.

As to my seriousness, I've managed almost 10 years around here avoiding responding in kind after being called out or judged by somebody who does not know the slightest bit about me, but here you go : you can check out my studio, and a list of credits.

Regarding bip/printing, not talking about VIs, about audio tracks - in huge track count sessions - where one plug spikes the cpu and renders further work troublesome, "unless" you bounce, which doesn't happen on same studio setup with heavy sessions in PT 12, Live 9, Reaper.

Only in Logic, which is a big downside, and one good reason to watch out if you are/ plan on using Logic for mixing.
Thanks for the update. Good to hear how important you are. Interesting comments. The only one you cannot be is Van Buuren as he actively promotes Logic, and he's in Holland, you're in Belgium apparently. I don't know any Belgian artists, but I sure like Tiesto too.
Old 29th December 2016
  #107
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@[email protected] The single core "spike" on the live monitored track(s) seems to be getting better, I'm not sure exactly what they're doing, but it's as if they were dumping some of the less timing sensitive duties to adjacent cores when you select "playback and live" in the Multiprocessing dropdown.

Still, you are right that there IS a problem here. I highly recommend the solution I've adopted. I've described it before, but it's relevant here again.

Most of us have more than one machine, if nothing else we have our "ancestor", the previous computer we used to think was so great, and that now languishes in the corner. Hardly anyone seems to sell their old gear; we have old files on it, who would want it, etc. OK, so here's the ticket. We know the rich and fabulous (e.g. Jean Michel Jarre) use multiple computers in "server farms", but that's beyond us. Not. Put your "ancestor" to work as Slave.

In a nutshell: what if we ran a MIDI cable from the Logic mac to our "ancestor" machine, opened up big stuff in our old DAW there, triggered it from a Logic MIDI track over the cable, and ran the audio back to Logic? That would take the Live Track load off Logic. And what if we didn't even have to use a MIDI cable? We can use Network MIDI (details on request). We can record the MIDI into Logic, and as it plays this huge template with a gazillion effects that's loaded into the ancestor's DAW doesn't even touch Logic's cores. What live track problem?

Because the returning audio is available to Logic, we can bounce it to stems just as if it were local. Or we can leave it "live", and add more VIs on either the Master or Slave side. If we share VIs and libraries between the two machines (especially if both are macs) we can bring up a given patch either way. We could even share the very same samples drive over the LAN (too bad OsX sucks at sharing disks, Windows is much better at it).

Once this is set up, it's almost as simple as bringing up a VI on the local machine. Adding control surfaces and handhelds works the same way. One important detail is to do things gradually and not try to reconfigure everything all the time, because with multiple Network MIDI nodes it's easy to make a Gordian Knot.

What we've done is bypass Logic's excessive loading on the single live track core. We've almost doubled the power of our setup, while recycling our once beloved ancestor machine. No need for additional packages like Vienna $$ Pro, just the software and hardware we already bought, plus the cost of a $5 cable and a few sizzled brain cells.
Old 29th December 2016
  #108
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Nico@SunnySide's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MusiKLover View Post
Thanks for the update. Good to hear how important you are. Interesting comments. The only one you cannot be is Van Buuren as he actively promotes Logic, and he's in Holland, you're in Belgium apparently. I don't know any Belgian artists, but I sure like Tiesto too.
Never said I was important, but you judging of my seriousness from one post that is on-topic, without knowing me, is pure condescending trolling and not contributing to anything.

Besides simply not recognizing your attitude is wrong, can you at least stay on topic and move on?
Old 29th December 2016
  #109
Gear Maniac
 
Nico@SunnySide's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fernand View Post
@[email protected] The single core "spike" on the live monitored track(s) seems to be getting better, I'm not sure exactly what they're doing, but it's as if they were dumping some of the less timing sensitive duties to adjacent cores when you select "playback and live" in the Multiprocessing dropdown.

Still, you are right that there IS a problem here. I highly recommend the solution I've adopted. I've described it before, but it's relevant here again.

Most of us have more than one machine, if nothing else we have our "ancestor", the previous computer we used to think was so great, and that now languishes in the corner. Hardly anyone seems to sell their old gear; we have old files on it, who would want it, etc. OK, so here's the ticket. We know the rich and fabulous (e.g. Jean Michel Jarre) use multiple computers in "server farms", but that's beyond us. Not. Put your "ancestor" to work as Slave.

In a nutshell: what if we ran a MIDI cable from the Logic mac to our "ancestor" machine, opened up big stuff in our old DAW there, triggered it from a Logic MIDI track over the cable, and ran the audio back to Logic? That would take the Live Track load off Logic. And what if we didn't even have to use a MIDI cable? We can use Network MIDI (details on request). We can record the MIDI into Logic, and as it plays this huge template with a gazillion effects that's loaded into the ancestor's DAW doesn't even touch Logic's cores. What live track problem?

Because the returning audio is available to Logic, we can bounce it to stems just as if it were local. Or we can leave it "live", and add more VIs on either the Master or Slave side. If we share VIs and libraries between the two machines (especially if both are macs) we can bring up a given patch either way. We could even share the very same samples drive over the LAN (too bad OsX sucks at sharing disks, Windows is much better at it).

Once this is set up, it's almost as simple as bringing up a VI on the local machine. Adding control surfaces and handhelds works the same way. One important detail is to do things gradually and not try to reconfigure everything all the time, because with multiple Network MIDI nodes it's easy to make a Gordian Knot.

What we've done is bypass Logic's excessive loading on the single live track core. We've almost doubled the power of our setup, while recycling our once beloved ancestor machine. No need for additional packages like Vienna $$ Pro, just the software and hardware we already bought, plus the cost of a $5 cable and a few sizzled brain cells.
Hey Fernand, yes seems like a workable workaround, have an old MacPro that is unused here, might give it a try. If I ever need to mix within Logic that is! The last sessions mixed here in december in Logic had too many busses, routings and active VI's as the artist wanted the freedom to continue tweaking the instruments far in the mix, thus making the export to other DAWs quite cumbersome. A few colleagues writing with large orchestral VI's use the Vienna Ensemble Pro, which they report can take care of the CPU spikes, even from within the same computer.

As you say, it is not a cheap fix this way, for something supposed to work internally.

5 clients do have the CPU spikes even when composing, on various machines, even top of line iMacs, MBPs.

It is quite remarkable how this issue does not seem to be a top priority to be fixed in updates, as you can read from various threads on various forums, it has been going on for several years!
Old 29th December 2016
  #110
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MusiKLover's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Never said I was important, but you judging of my seriousness from one post that is on-topic, without knowing me, is pure condescending trolling and not contributing to anything.

Besides simply not recognizing your attitude is wrong, can you at least stay on topic and move on?
That is fair, and I'm not meaning to troll the Logic Room about the things I like about Logic.

Man I wish you were my Sweetwater or SamAsh Rep. I could go nuts on anything not Logic related. At least there's Ableton, UAD, and the rest. Or, somewhat paradoxically, you remind me of a Dutchman who likes to shout out in the this room, as a non-user of Logic (or macOS for that matter.)
Old 29th December 2016
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by logicprose View Post
Can you post a sample logic project where you want to quantize note ends too the grid. So I can apply my solution against your specific example to ensure it works as expected ? Thanks
No need ... simply play in any keyboard part (other than drums) such as bass or a pad.

Human timing is never on the grid ... and while there are times when human timing is required, I have a particular requirement to make pefectly gridded midi tracks. I simply want the note Ons AND the Note Offs to be perfectly snapped to the grid.

In Cubase I simply play the parts in, select all and then Quantize the note Ons, and then Quantize the note Ends.

I'm not seeing a fast easy way of doing this in Logic, and i'm not the only person inquiring on the internet about how to do this. The answers all seem really odd and difficult in comparison to any other DAW out there.

The timing of a note OFF is extremely important to the groove. I don't want it moving if I happen to quantize the Note On position.

FWIW ... the reason I want to creat boring robotic tracks is this:

I use midi for both live and studio projects. I get bored really quickly, so i'm always changing instruments, tempo, swing ... so what I want is to create a starting project, with perfect gridded timing, as a starting point for tweaking.

Every midi instrument has a unique attack time, and a unique release time. In my opinion, there is zero point in capturing a human performance, because that was just based on what instrument was selected at the time. It will always be wrong for a new instrument with a different envelope.

I would rather start from a mathematically perfect gridded project - and it also greatly helps with being able to move parts around and insert them anywhere and keep a consistent feel.

Then - after tweaking the project, I can apply a different groove template or swing percentage OR conform it to a played in bass guitar, or whatever I want to do.

For EDM type projects I like gridded stuff anyway ...

This is the main reason I'm not paying to download Logic - I can't see why they have failed to offer such a basic requirement.
Old 29th December 2016
  #112
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Nico@SunnySide's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by KorgAddict View Post
Mmm, relative vs absolute snap mode maybe??? If it was such a problem you could have set the region start directly on the event list, also... takes 2 seconds.

But you're here to bash Logic so I won't rain on your parade(ideal thread for it). Carry on.

KA
Holy cannolli, did you read what I wrote? this snap issue was with snap "off"?
The regions simply would not move to the exact bar/beat value, neither in the event list on the right, always a bit before or after when zooming in.
Had to bounce the originals in place with a locator snapped to rounded bars to be able to copy the segments accurately. Sounds like a laudable feature?

Regarding the bashing, you must not have read my post, as I praised Logic for songwriting.

Do people still read entire posts before replying?

Why people get so touchy when some gear they use/like is getting a negative comment is besides me.

There isn't a single DAW that is flawless, pointing out what does not work is good for further improvements.

And again, this is what the OP wanted, an honest opinion, which in my book might hold positive and negative aspects.

I don't have any parade going, but it seems I am raining on the Logic fanboy crowd. Oops.

This one's outta here. Have fun.
Old 29th December 2016
  #113
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MusiKLover's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwi View Post
No need ... simply play in any keyboard part (other than drums) such as bass or a pad.

Human timing is never on the grid ... and while there are times when human timing is required, I have a particular requirement to make pefectly gridded midi tracks. I simply want the note Ons AND the Note Offs to be perfectly snapped to the grid.

In Cubase I simply play the parts in, select all and then Quantize the note Ons, and then Quantize the note Ends.

I'm not seeing a fast easy way of doing this in Logic, and i'm not the only person inquiring on the internet about how to do this. The answers all seem really odd and difficult in comparison to any other DAW out there.

The timing of a note OFF is extremely important to the groove. I don't want it moving if I happen to quantize the Note On position.

FWIW ... the reason I want to creat boring robotic tracks is this:

I use midi for both live and studio projects. I get bored really quickly, so i'm always changing instruments, tempo, swing ... so what I want is to create a starting project, with perfect gridded timing, as a starting point for tweaking.

Every midi instrument has a unique attack time, and a unique release time. In my opinion, there is zero point in capturing a human performance, because that was just based on what instrument was selected at the time. It will always be wrong for a new instrument with a different envelope.

I would rather start from a mathematically perfect gridded project - and it also greatly helps with being able to move parts around and insert them anywhere and keep a consistent feel.

Then - after tweaking the project, I can apply a different groove template or swing percentage OR conform it to a played in bass guitar, or whatever I want to do.

For EDM type projects I like gridded stuff anyway ...

This is the main reason I'm not paying to download Logic - I can't see why they have failed to offer such a basic requirement.
Perhaps ValliSoftware or Peter Schwartz (SkiSwitcher) might have a MIDI FX that could take care of this. Have you researched any out there? I'm curious too, though the first gentleman I mentioned seems to have a solid understanding of coding. That's kinda sorta a pre-req for the Scripter, but then again it might be a more futuristic approach than the environment route, which might not bear fruit regardless.

Peter's tool is great for symphonic articulation switching, and I'd imagine a Note-Off / perfect grid endeavor would not be rocket science to him.

If you use another DAW, you can get it done there too. Ableton is perfect for this sort of stuff. Logic is great for composing and mixing with stems / printed tracks. Exporting Audio & MIDI from one to another is easily accomplished, with or without ReWire. In fact, I dare say easier without as I've done more than a few, and it does take some tweaking every time it seems, i.e. even with the requisite template on your drive.

Just print Session View to Ableton's Arranger, then export the stems to Logic.
Old 29th December 2016
  #114
Lives for gear
 

OMG this thread and to believe I thought I was getting somewhere back in the day with these debates lol.

For $200 Logic is worth far more than the asking price. The ultimate solution would be to use Logic with Live or Logic with Maschine. Logic is actually very good by itself and I could make great records without anything else but Logic.

I'm not sure if I can say that about any other daw. Logic is an awesome solution, but you can add to it if need be.
Old 29th December 2016
  #115
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by fadein View Post
Koan software, which is sadly no longer around.
It's now Noatikl.
https://intermorphic.com/noatikl/
Old 29th December 2016
  #116
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by MusiKLover View Post
Perhaps ValliSoftware or Peter Schwartz (SkiSwitcher) might have a MIDI FX that could take care of this. Have you researched any out there? I'm curious too, though the first gentleman I mentioned seems to have a solid understanding of coding. That's kinda sorta a pre-req for the Scripter, but then again it might be a more futuristic approach than the environment route, which might not bear fruit regardless.

Peter's tool is great for symphonic articulation switching, and I'd imagine a Note-Off / perfect grid endeavor would not be rocket science to him.

If you use another DAW, you can get it done there too. Ableton is perfect for this sort of stuff. Logic is great for composing and mixing with stems / printed tracks. Exporting Audio & MIDI from one to another is easily accomplished, with or without ReWire. In fact, I dare say easier without as I've done more than a few, and it does take some tweaking every time it seems, i.e. even with the requisite template on your drive.

Just print Session View to Ableton's Arranger, then export the stems to Logic.
Every other DAW on the planet just lets you Quantise Note Ends ... not seeing why Emagic or Apple missed the boat with this basic requirement.

I invested heavily in Logic in 2002 (from memory) - just weeks before Emagic sold to Apple and PC support was turned off. I bought Cubase SX at the special deal for shafted Logic PC users, and never looked back. At the time it clearly sounded better to me (something noticed by many other people) and was just easier to get things done.

I've switched to Mac's now, and have Mainstage - so i've got all the Apple instruments and library at the steal of the century. I would buy Logic if I thought it was any good for midi sequencing - but it seems too handicapped, coming from Cubase.

I don't think Cubase is perfect. As far as the OP's original question - that's sort of my question too, but maybe I should look at Abelton or something else ...
Old 29th December 2016
  #117
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwi View Post
Every other DAW on the planet just lets you Quantise Note Ends ... not seeing why Emagic or Apple missed the boat with this basic requirement.
Did you miss this post?
Is Logic X worth using? Honestly..?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwi View Post
I would buy Logic if I thought it was any good for midi sequencing - but it seems too handicapped, coming from Cubase.
I'm just realizing that you don't have Logic Pro X so you can't zip and post a project yet you can criticize that Logic Pro X doesn't have the ability to quantize note ends.

How can you help with the OP by saying don't get Logic Pro X when you yourself don't own Logic Pro X?
Old 29th December 2016
  #118
Lives for gear
 
Fernand's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Hey Fernand, yes seems like a workable workaround, have an old MacPro that is unused here, might give it a try. If I ever need to mix within Logic that is! The last sessions mixed here in december in Logic had too many busses, routings and active VI's as the artist wanted the freedom to continue tweaking the instruments far in the mix, thus making the export to other DAWs quite cumbersome. A few colleagues writing with large orchestral VI's use the Vienna Ensemble Pro, which they report can take care of the CPU spikes, even from within the same computer.

As you say, it is not a cheap fix this way, for something supposed to work internally.

5 clients do have the CPU spikes even when composing, on various machines, even top of line iMacs, MBPs.

It is quite remarkable how this issue does not seem to be a top priority to be fixed in updates, as you can read from various threads on various forums, it has been going on for several years!
They have improved it. It's absurd that on a $10k 12 core trashcan with 24 threads users STILL have sessions stuttering on one core. But from a programmer's perspective I can see why. It's very hard to fully correct without completely re-doing the powerful way the program handles software live monitoring with all the buses, sends, etc. in perfect sync. That's why it's on one core.

But if you have another mac, use Network MIDI, it's a no-brainer, and you'll find that if you have Logic on both you get to where it's second nature to pick where you host a given VI. You're not exporting anything, you're not even running the sequencer on the slave machine, just using it as a "socket" for more VIs, and you can bring them back to the Master for playback as soon as they're not in live mode (where they stress the single core).

You set up the VI on the master machine and then you also set up the exact same patch on the slave machine. You will use that for live monitoring, and you'll record to a MIDI track that triggers the slave. After you no longer need to have it in live mode, you can drag the MIDI up to the track on the master to play the local version. Make sense? CPU spiking solved. I'm sure you can do something similar with Vienna Pro, but this is simple, zero cost, and requires no learning curve. It also offers other possibilities.

Last edited by Fernand; 29th December 2016 at 11:41 AM..
Old 29th December 2016
  #119
Gear Maniac
 
Jay Asher's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fernand View Post
They have improved it. It's absurd that on a $10k 12 core trashcan with 24 threads users STILL have sessions stuttering on one core. But from a programmer's perspective I can see why. It's very hard to fully correct without completely re-doing the powerful way the program handles software live monitoring with all the buses, sends, etc. in perfect sync. That's why it's on one core.

Logic Pro now has a Preference for "Playback and Live Tracks" that largely cures the single core spiking issue. The trade off is that it seems to me to hit a CPU ceiling more quickly with it.

But a lot of guys like me who use a bunchof large orchestral libraries have mostly added Vienna Ensemble for either/and on both our main DAW and a slave. It is genius software.

Oh, and btw, there is no such thing as a Logic Pro "session." We run "projects."
Old 29th December 2016
  #120
Gear Head
 
logicprose's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwi View Post
N
In Cubase I simply play the parts in, select all and then Quantize the note Ons, and then Quantize the note Ends.

I'm not seeing a fast easy way of doing this in Logic, and i'm not the only person inquiring on the internet about how to do this. The answers all seem really odd and difficult in comparison to any other DAW out there.

Boy this is a tough crowd!
In cubase you indicate you quantize note ons and then quantize note offs.
In Logic there is a way to do both simultaneously ( if I understand your question - maybe I don't).

Notice below I am showing a 1/16 division grid. Each and every note is off the grid (both start point and end point)

Quantizing the start of the note would bring it to its closest 1/16 division (normally Not changing the end length) and quantizing the end would then bring it too the nearest division (but now skewed because the note start changed)

In Logic you can do both at the same time based on their current start and end points. (Yes you are right - you cannot do them separately).

Look at each note and verify that it is moving to the correct location. Each note's start and end position will move to its nearest 1/16th ( simultaneously & independently ).


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