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How to record Opera Vocals
Old 30th August 2014
  #31
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xcskier's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by T_R_S View Post
....always a Neve pre when in doubt Neve
Ya, NO...

Perhaps Neve in the 90s. Amek Neve is more transparent than 70's but still some colour.

When in doubt GML, Millennia Media, (Transformerless), or Jensen Transformer preamps. There are others... Just something more open.

If all you have is Neve, well you still have quality gear, you'll be fine for this particular situation.
Old 30th August 2014
  #32
Gear Addict
 

If the singer can only afford 30 an hour-

1. Why rent a freakin hall- these responses are ridiculous
2. Who CARES what preamp
3. OBVIOUSLY not a real big deal recording- who in their right mind on an important recording low balls to 30 bucks and hires a guy with a dead room and no experience...

Ive recorded LOTS of opera. Give the mic a little distance and press 3.

Relativity is completely LOST on this site...
Old 30th August 2014
  #33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emwolb View Post
If the singer can only afford 30 an hour-

1. Why rent a freakin hall- these responses are ridiculous
2. Who CARES what preamp
3. OBVIOUSLY not a real big deal recording- who in their right mind on an important recording low balls to 30 bucks and hires a guy with a dead room and no experience...

Ive recorded LOTS of opera. Give the mic a little distance and press 3.

Relativity is completely LOST on this site...


There was no mention of budget till well after the suggestions about renting a hall were made.
Old 31st August 2014
  #34
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ROCKER STUDIOS's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emwolb View Post
If the singer can only afford 30 an hour-

1. Why rent a freakin hall- these responses are ridiculous
2. Who CARES what preamp
3. OBVIOUSLY not a real big deal recording- who in their right mind on an important recording low balls to 30 bucks and hires a guy with a dead room and no experience...

Ive recorded LOTS of opera. Give the mic a little distance and press 3.

Relativity is completely LOST on this site...
The hall was a Great recommendation as I have access to a warehouse so That was a good suggestion .The girl Has been studying Opera for years and is Amazing and my Friends Daughter. she is Needing this as a demo to get into a production. and yes I have no Opera experience But have been Recording for Many years. I appreciate
the forums suggestions ..If I did not take on Out of my wheel house Recordings I would not be the Recorder I em today.

"Give the mic a little distance" THANKS
Old 31st August 2014
  #35
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xcskier's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emwolb View Post
If the singer can only afford 30 an hour-...
We can understand your frustrations. Some of us have educations and investment on par or beyond other professionals, yet the general public doesn't always understand.

However ROCKER's attitude is in the right place. Reputations are built on giving every project your complete attention and care. His apprehensions and insecurity concerning this new situation will intensify the memory and result in a vivid learning experience.

If you want the blunt reality check, this seems like a great opportunity to get experience without the stress or high expectations of a major label or performer. It's essentially paid training, and why not give it your all.

In fact, in situations like these where you are doing someone a favor and setup time allows, go a little overboard. Setup a second or third stereo pair, with the knowledge that you will not use all the sources in the end - simply for ear training.

ROCKER may well be doing some last minute 'cramming', but why not describe the ideal situations. I'm sure we all might pickup something from this thread as well.

It's always better to shoot for the stars and fall short than approximate half-ass.
Old 31st August 2014
  #36
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NetworkAudio's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgrotto View Post


There was no mention of budget till well after the suggestions about renting a hall were made.
He also posted in the High end forum prompting high end solutions
Old 31st August 2014
  #37
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ROCKER STUDIOS's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by xcskier View Post
We can understand your frustrations. Some of us have educations and investment on par or beyond other professionals, yet the general public doesn't always understand.

However ROCKER's attitude is in the right place. Reputations are built on giving every project your complete attention and care. His apprehensions and insecurity concerning this new situation will intensify the memory and result in a vivid learning experience.

If you want the blunt reality check, this seems like a great opportunity to get experience without the stress or high expectations of a major label or performer. It's essentially paid training, and why not give it your all.

In fact, in situations like these where you are doing someone a favor and setup time allows, go a little overboard. Setup a second or third stereo pair, with the knowledge that you will not use all the sources in the end - simply for ear training.

ROCKER may well be doing some last minute 'cramming', but why not describe the ideal situations. I'm sure we all might pickup something from this thread as well.

It's always better to shoot for the stars and fall short than approximate half-ass.
Perfectly Said THANKS
Old 25th September 2019
  #38
Here for the gear
 

Looking for the versatile set up

Hello All,

I am looking for a portable recording set up for a pro operatic mezzosoprano that she can use on the go without the help of anyone to keep track of her work and sound (as you know a good opera singer often learn to stop trusting her/his hear and just rely on technique). The set up should be reasonably portable and reasonably inexpensive.

We tried the ORTF set up and the sound was catastrophic - maybe also because the pair of mics should have been placed much much higher (2,5 meters high at least instead of just at the height of the singer). We can try that again.

Instead I had a surprisingly cool result for a recital with guitar in four concert rooms ranging from cathedral-like reverb concert hall to much drier environment. I realized that the set up might be manage by the singer: Neuman KM 184 on a stand placed at 1 meter form the singer and hips height and oriented towards the source of sound (the head). The KM was recorded and powered through a Zoom H4n whose internal XY mic was capturing the room sound (placed 3 meters in front of the musicians); the acoustic guitar was captured by an Oktava and also recorded on the 4th track of the zoom H4n.

The singer is quite happy with the sound of the KM but feel there is still be a bit of over metallic sound in the voice that is due to the recording. Also she is quite happy with how the voice sounds in the background of the guitar recorded by the Oktava.

My questions are: - how to improve from the KM184 (positioning and maybe another mic to try out) - could we imagine to use a zoom H6 and add a pair of Oktava for room recording on top of the internal mics? - or maybe someone has another easier idea? - I will not be here, but today she will try to record a piano/voice and the voice will be recorded with an AKG 414 in cardioïde position at the distance of 1 meter and head height... This is not in public and I'm not sure how she could use it in a feasible way in other settings (like with the orchestra and conductor and rehearsals any ways.

If anyone has any thoughts !
Old 25th September 2019
  #39
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by DX007 View Post
Hello All,

I am looking for a portable recording set up for a pro operatic mezzosoprano that she can use on the go without the help of anyone to keep track of her work and sound (as you know a good opera singer often learn to stop trusting her/his hear and just rely on technique). The set up should be reasonably portable and reasonably inexpensive.

We tried the ORTF set up and the sound was catastrophic - maybe also because the pair of mics should have been placed much much higher (2,5 meters high at least instead of just at the height of the singer). We can try that again.

Instead I had a surprisingly cool result for a recital with guitar in four concert rooms ranging from cathedral-like reverb concert hall to much drier environment. I realized that the set up might be manage by the singer: Neuman KM 184 on a stand placed at 1 meter form the singer and hips height and oriented towards the source of sound (the head). The KM was recorded and powered through a Zoom H4n whose internal XY mic was capturing the room sound (placed 3 meters in front of the musicians); the acoustic guitar was captured by an Oktava and also recorded on the 4th track of the zoom H4n.

The singer is quite happy with the sound of the KM but feel there is still be a bit of over metallic sound in the voice that is due to the recording. Also she is quite happy with how the voice sounds in the background of the guitar recorded by the Oktava.

My questions are: - how to improve from the KM184 (positioning and maybe another mic to try out) - could we imagine to use a zoom H6 and add a pair of Oktava for room recording on top of the internal mics? - or maybe someone has another easier idea? - I will not be here, but today she will try to record a piano/voice and the voice will be recorded with an AKG 414 in cardioïde position at the distance of 1 meter and head height... This is not in public and I'm not sure how she could use it in a feasible way in other settings (like with the orchestra and conductor and rehearsals any ways.

If anyone has any thoughts !
This (deeply hilarious) thread that you necro'd is probably not the best place to seek such info!
Old 25th September 2019
  #40
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xcskier's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Philter View Post
This (deeply hilarious) thread that you necro'd is probably not the best place to seek such info!
Don' know, kinna nice to go over again. Get's the visualization muscles workin'. The Juan Diego clip is great : )

Though I agree, this thread would be better severed in Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music and Location Recording, it would elicit both archival and higher budget suggestions.

Last edited by xcskier; 25th September 2019 at 05:54 PM..
Old 25th September 2019
  #41
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Plush's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROCKER STUDIOS View Post
Unfortunately 10x11 dead Room is all we have or a Kitchen Room or a Bathroom .I was thinking maybe the Kitchen or the Dead room with Verb Plugs I have a Pearlman TM47 with a DW Fearn -20bd pad(box) will be my first choice. Do you compress Opera Voices ???? she is the loudest voice I have ever heard
NO

Definitely take the suggestion to record in a hall.

Don't do the work if you won't do it right.

Hire a location recording person if you cannot manage the work yourself.
Old 25th September 2019
  #42
Gear Addict
 
xcskier's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DX007 View Post
...
My questions are: - how to improve from the KM184 (positioning and maybe another mic to try out) - could we imagine to use a zoom H6 and add a pair of Oktava for room recording on top of the internal mics? - or maybe someone has another easier idea? - I will not be here, but today she will try to record a piano/voice and the voice will be recorded with an AKG 414 in cardioïde position at the distance of 1 meter and head height... This is not in public and I'm not sure how she could use it in a feasible way in other settings (like with the orchestra and conductor and rehearsals any ways. ..
To be clear: this is for archival listening, and self-critique of closed practice sessions correct ? (Good'on you for demanding more than just the x/y of the Zoom, especially for referencing tone).

Depends on which version of the 414 (eg TLII ). For self-critique, maybe try the wide cardioid position for spot mic (if it's a newer 414 version).

If the room is more controlled, try the omni capsules on the Oktava pair. Troublesome rooms, you might need more directional response.

For situations where you don't have a great deal of setup time before the rehearsal, just try a spaced pair of omnis (and skip the 3rd mic). Adjust the distance from the singer depending on balance of piano vs voice (vs room) you need to hear for your reference listening. For reference recordings, you don't necessarily want to deal with mixing various mic sources, but if you have the time...

3 mic setup would be preferred if you want to close mic the piano to isolate and listen to the accompaniment (eg for later practice) though in that case, you might as well just let the piano play through once on it's own and keep the simple setup.

Last edited by xcskier; 25th September 2019 at 06:03 PM..
Old 26th September 2019
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xcskier View Post
To be clear: this is for archival listening, and self-critique of closed practice sessions correct ? (Good'on you for demanding more than just the x/y of the Zoom, especially for referencing tone).

Depends on which version of the 414 (eg TLII ). For self-critique, maybe try the wide cardioid position for spot mic (if it's a newer 414 version).

If the room is more controlled, try the omni capsules on the Oktava pair. Troublesome rooms, you might need more directional response.

For situations where you don't have a great deal of setup time before the rehearsal, just try a spaced pair of omnis (and skip the 3rd mic). Adjust the distance from the singer depending on balance of piano vs voice (vs room) you need to hear for your reference listening. For reference recordings, you don't necessarily want to deal with mixing various mic sources, but if you have the time...

3 mic setup would be preferred if you want to close mic the piano to isolate and listen to the accompaniment (eg for later practice) though in that case, you might as well just let the piano play through once on it's own and keep the simple setup.
Thanks for the reply and suggestion ! I listened to the recordings with the AKG C414 and it sounds a bit flat and uninteresting compared to the Neuman KM184. I'm starting to believe that she would be better suited to buy a pair of Oktava (one for singing and the other for the piano) and a Zoom H4n to record them into and XY for the room sound and that the end of the story.
Old 26th September 2019
  #44
Gear Addict
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DX007 View Post
the AKG C414 and it sounds a bit flat and uninteresting compared to the Neuman KM184. I'm starting to believe that she would be better suited to buy a pair of Oktava (one for singing and the other for the piano) and a Zoom H4n to record them into and XY for the room sound and that the end of the story.
I'm assuming maybe you setup the C414 B-uls or xls version ?

If you're looking at Oktava MK012, I would strongly advise purchasing the multi pattern capsule set, or add omnis if they are sold separately.
Old 8th June 2020
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROCKER STUDIOS View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by klaukholm View Post
Step one is to rent a chambermusic hall.
A condenser will work fine.
Schoeps mk4/mk22, a tlm170, 4011 or even a u87 will work as a spot
A good pair of omnis for the mains, try 4006, k133 or something similar depending on the hall.
Unfortunately 10x11 dead Room is all we have or a Kitchen Room or a Bathroom .I was thinking maybe the Kitchen or the Dead room with Verb Plugs I have a Pearlman TM47 with a DW Fearn -20bd pad(box) will be my first choice. Do you compress Opera Voices ???? she is the loudest voice I have ever heard


How was her voice the loudest you’ve heard
Old 11th June 2020
  #46
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This is an old thread.


I think it's fair to say that when engineers are used to recording typical vocals, finding someone who can project like an opera singer is a real eye (and ear) opener.

Before the lockdown, I helped run an open mic night. We had one guy that could safely be muted in the PA system, because he could really project. More level at 2' from the mic than most people managed on top of it.

Chris
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