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Alesis HD24 vs. Tascam MX-2424
Old 14th October 2006
  #31
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tuRnitUpsuM's Avatar
 

Hi cww2


would definitely be interested in the comparison (mix files)... granted things will sound different to each listener somewhat... should get perspectives in the same ballpark though...

would be much appreciated cww2... especially when you get your paws on ur HD24xr... would be interested in hearing that mix file...



cheers


good points Steffmo

Quote:
OK....all that being said, if you need to record 24 tracks at once, and are just going to dump it into a DAW...the Alesis is fine and the price is right. Just figure the price of the Fireport into the cost, because without it you will go nuts.
most would include it i am sure... isn't too big a deal....fairly cheap nowadays...
Old 14th October 2006
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cww2 View Post
I'm in the Alesis corner. I own an HD4 but I also own or have access to more "respectable, reknowned" gear. I just did a very detailed mix A/B with my HD24 and a rented Apogee DA16X. Half of the tracks were recorded directly to HD24 - dumped fireport into Nuendo. Others were tracked directly into DAW via Apogee AD.

From Nuendo - I go out of an HDSP 9652 - into 24 channels of the API 8200/7800 setup - stereo into Rosetta (the original 48k) to my mix.

I should say that I track things with good gear - API/Wunder pres, EAR/Manley/EL8 compressors - Apogee AD converters.

Anyway - I was looking for a huge difference between mixing thru the HD24 (not XR model) and the Apogee DA16X. There was a difference - but I'm not sure if was a $7k - $8k difference. I thought certain frequency ranges were better in one than the other and vice versa. What made more of difference to me was using the other piece of gear I rented with the DA16X --- the Smart C2.

I was ready and willing to spend the cash to get an entire Apogee rig (2 DA16X, 1 AD16X) for my studio - but after the very honest A/B - I decided to get an HD24XR. I will do the A/B again as soon as it arrives. Considering having Audio Upgrades mod it - pending the outcome of my tests.

I can post the VERY rough and incomplete mix files if anyone is interested in listening to the test files. Tracking is incomplete as well.

cww2
Yeah. I'll like to hear them. Put 'em up! Thanks....
Old 14th October 2006
  #33
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uncle duncan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steffmo View Post
Just figure the price of the Fireport into the cost, because without it you will go nuts.
Or transfer all 24 tracks in one pass into a DAW via ADAT lightpipe and a 24 channel interface like the MOTU 2408. While some might think transferring tracks in realtime to be time consuming, consider that while you're transferring the tracks, you can be putting in your markers (Verse, Chorus, Bridge) which is something you'd have to do anyway. If there is a click track on disc, set the DAW tempo the same, (you did write down the tempo while you were tracking, right?) and after transferring, highlight all the tracks and line up the click track to a bar line at the beginning of the song. Then scroll to the end of the song and see how far off you are. In my setup, if the old Roland R8 drum machine was set at a tempo of 120, I have to set the DAW tempo to around 120.03 for the click to stay lined up through the whole song.
Old 14th October 2006
  #34
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David R.'s Avatar
 

I'm a huge fan of the Alesis, but make sure you get the XR version. I rarely use the hard drive, I have it hooked up light pipe to a MOTU 2808 mk II and use it as a 24 chan. i/o.
Old 15th October 2006
  #35
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by David R. View Post
I'm a huge fan of the Alesis, but make sure you get the XR version. I rarely use the hard drive, I have it hooked up light pipe to a MOTU 2808 mk II and use it as a 24 chan. i/o.
Same here except I lightpipe to 2 RME digital cards...I use it for all my outboard gear with Nuendo...

24 channels of great AD/DA conversion (@24/44) with a very reliable hard disk recorder thrown in...!!
Old 15th October 2006
  #36
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This might be slightly off topic....but....I hear people liking the XR version over the stock HD24. With the price between the two, does $300.00 more make that big of a difference in sound quality? ( HD24 stock.. $1200.00 vs the HD24-XR... $1,500.00)..And... if so, do Alesis still sell the EC-2 upgrade kit?... ... Thanks
Old 16th October 2006
  #37
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uncle duncan's Avatar
 

The EC-2 kit is on their website, but no other info is there. If it's DIY, I need one.
Old 16th October 2006
  #38
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I bought my EC-2 from Northern Sound and Light for a pretty decent price. They carry the entire HD24 product set:

http://northernsound.net/Sales/playb...racks.html#EC2

If you are feeding analog signals to the HD24, then the XR (or EC-2) version is definitely worth the money - the converters are OK on the HD24, but they are much superior on the XR.

If you are feeding digital signals to the HD24, then there is no benefit whatsoever to the XR/EC-2 version because the digital portion of the XR unit is identical to the base HD24.

In general, I'd always recommend the XR version at this point - the price difference isn't that great, and the XR version should hold its value better. Besides, even if you plan to come in via lightpipe, you may change your mind once you hear the HD24XR's converters.

One more point that bears repeating: Anyone who owns or uses an HD24 really should be a member of the Yahoo HD24 group. It is a very active owner community having nearly 1500 members with some serious expertise. http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/hd24/
Old 21st December 2006
  #39
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Redundant Question!!!!!

This is a redundant question I've already posted, but all of you seem to use or know a lot concerning the ADAT HD24 - see if you guys can help me.

I have 2 New Alesis HD24's (replacing 3 DA-88's) and trying to hook them up in order to sync them for remixing to a Sony RS-422 9 PIN sub D controller.

In other words I need the ADAT HD24 to act like a BetaSP or DVCAM video deck for playback only in an edit suite???????

Any ideas as to what I am doing wrong?

Thanks for your time and infohttps://www.gearslutz.com/board/images/smilies/thumb.gif
Old 21st December 2006
  #40
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Nosound's Avatar
 

Thakns for the info. about the newsgroup
Old 3rd March 2007
  #41
DGF
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Unbalanced D/Os to Alesis HD24XR/EC2

Has anyone here connected an analog console with unbalanced outputs to the inputs of an HD24XR or EC2? Does it work OK? Alesis advises this may be problematic.

For what it's worth I have a high quality shielded Mogami snake. It is unbalanced, but only 7 feet long, so the length of the cable run should in itself pose a problem here......

Thoughts appreciated......
Old 3rd March 2007
  #42
DGF
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Oops...Typo

Ooops, I meant to say that the 7 foot cable length should NOT, in itself, pose a problem.

FWIW Alesis tech support advises that the true-balanced circuitry of the newer converter PCBs may require balanced inputs only (as opposed to the "pseudo-balanced" or "impedance-balanced" circuitry of the original HD24).

I'm not sure whether Alesis is trying to warn that the newer converters would work at all with an unbalanced input, or whether they would just be susceptible to more noise when accepting an unbalanced signal.
Old 3rd March 2007
  #43
PDC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregg Sartiano View Post
Those kinds of machines always struck me as the worst-of-both-worlds: the coldness of digital with the clunkiness of analog. Is there a particular motivating factor for going MDM instead of DAW?

Also, I don't even have to tell you that your resale value on these will probably literally be 1/10 of what you paid.
The machines are not clunky. Press a button to record like you press a space bar on a key board. What's the difference? The only moving parts are the drives. As far as resale, I don't know of any serious, sober minded slut or industry type that buys computers in hopes of getting good resale value. If anything, they are much more stable than a DAW, as they boot from RAM, and do not crash.

The Tascam is out of production. I would not buy one for that reason. They were buggy. Tascam did not deliver the full goods software wise till the end of it's run. I know of many people still using them.

I use some Alesis units as a backup when multitracking live services/concerts. The only issue that I can say has bit me in the rump was a drive carrier was touchy. If it is not in there just so, you can have an issue. I have had one vibrate loose while recording.

Either one is a pain when importing into PT. It takes forever to load sessions using the Fireport, and then you have to import those into your PT session. Either one is going to sound ok. They aren't Radarsm but I bet that the average consumer will not hear the difference.
Old 3rd March 2007
  #44
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HD24

I have been using an HD24 for the past 4 years. Mine came with the then available stock converters and I used insert cables to connect the recorder to my analog board.
I have a 30 year history with sound-reinforcement so tracking and dubing with this protocol was a snap. I did want to improve the sonic quality of my recordings so I purchased the balanced AKM XR upgrade and after installation discovered new TRS inputs from the consoles direct outs was necessary and this made dubbing a lot more difficult. I now use stand alone pres matched to the mic chosen for an application along with occational transparent peak control that feeds the HD24XR direct. The console is used for cueing until 2 mix time. I mix into an Audio Upgrades mod
Masterlink and have been very pleased with the system. My PMG5 with Logic and RME soundcard along with fireport has been used for about 20 min. in the last 2 years for audio purposes. Great recordings require strong tallent-room-mic-pre-comp and clean capture. If people can't work faders or a mouse to get good sound from these elements they had better consider another line of work.

Hugh
Old 3rd March 2007
  #45
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Remember all those years ago when just getting into 24trk recording was a MAJOR investment?

What was the retail of an ADAT? Like 5k when they first came out!!!!
Forget even owning a Pro analog 24trk machine. Seriously, the HD24 can be had for under $1300 new!

I just think its amazing... really I do.
Old 3rd March 2007
  #46
The XR version of the HD24 has better converters and actually sounds good right out of the box. Ok, not Lavry good, but definitely good. We use these in the remote truck because of their bulletproof reliability (a pro tools crash on a remote would put you out of business in a heartbeat), compactness, removeable drives, and affordable price (which makes it easy to get 72 tracks plus another 72 of redundancy). We also have the truck wired for a pro tools rig if clients want it, but we'll still run a set of HD24s for redudancy.
Old 30th May 2007
  #47
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PromoJAM's Avatar
 

I love this ....

I am sold on the HD24XR - I've been looking to purchase a hard disk recorder in the past months... I'd like a dependable device for tracking and dumping to my DAW....this appears to be that very thing!

Thanks slutz for all the input on both units.
Old 31st May 2007
  #48
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Well since I last posted here, I've got a HD24-XR. I have to say, I'm quite impressed with the stock converter quality... ..Humm....Well, I am stepping up from the XTs...
Old 31st May 2007
  #49
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The dman's Avatar
 

I got my XR a couple of weeks ago and have been using it as 24 I/O between a HDSP 9652 and an analog console. So far it's been working and sounding great.

I don't see why some people are so down on MDM's, I still use a DAW but the way I look at it I've got a great set of 24 convertors that happens to be a stand alone 24 track recorder and it opens me up to doing live recordings. A lot of versatility for the price of admission
Old 31st May 2007
  #50
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MichaelPatrick's Avatar
 

I concur 100% with those who like the HD24 XR model. For the money you can't get a better deal in recorder+converters. They're simply great. I've heard the Masterlink uses the same converters.

Keep in mind that the XR supports only 12 channels at 88.2 and 96, but all the converters are better which makes a difference even if you use all 24 of them at 44.1.

For live or remote tracking it's just great!
Old 31st May 2007
  #51
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Have not used those 2 but ive been using Akai DR series for 12 years, im still using it but have moved on to the D2424LV Fostex series for 24 bit, what i love about the Fostex is fast and safe backup to RAM and DVD-RW, also fostex says you need a high $$$ Ram drive but i bought a 60.00 Sony Ram drive and backup to DVD-RW, is the Tascam and Alesis easy backup ?
Old 23rd October 2007
  #52
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Quote:
P.S.: Unlike you, I >HAVE< seen an HD-24 crash. If it goes down, you're projects are toast until you can locate another one.
I've probably seen more HD24 crashes than anyone out there- I occasionally help people to recover from them. Across the thousands of HD24's out there, there are around 1-2 crashes *in total* per month, mostly due to power failures. But nowadays most HD24 owners pretty much manage to do their own recoveries using hd24tools.
Old 23rd October 2007
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregg Sartiano View Post
Is there a particular motivating factor for going MDM instead of DAW?

Also, I don't even have to tell you that your resale value on these will probably literally be 1/10 of what you paid.

Of course there is. Single purpose appliances are generally much more solid, and modular appliances are much easier to manage for downtime.

Alesis HD24 XR = $2000

Comparable tracking system for DAW
Computer&OS: $1500
DAW Software $500-$1000
24 channels of mid-to-highend i/o: $2500-$6000

Ever have a problem with your HD24, rent another while it's in for service. They are ubiquitous. No compatibility issues, modular swap-out format, expandable, portable.

If your DAW goes down, you have so many interdependent systems that it is potentially much more disruptive.

Now I know that DAWs are used for more than tracking, but the i/o alone pays for a dedicated MDM device. Also your DAW is freed up during tracking for tandem editing, pre-production, etc. or supplemental tracking.

What's the resale on your DAW?
Old 23rd October 2007
  #54
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I've never had a HD24 crash. I don't suppose they never crash, but I moved to a dedicated machine because 24 channel recording on my DAW was much less stable, especially during live recording setups. For critical live setups, one should use a redundant system anyways. It ain't so redundant when you need it.

HD24 has built in backup functionality, so if someone loses more than a day's work on critical projects on any format, DAW or otherwise, they've no-one to blame except themselves.

I have been working on 2" and run out of tape. Is that like a crash?
Old 26th October 2007
  #55
Gear Maniac
 

Well,

I have had my HD24XR for a year now.
I never recorded better than now.

I, before, had PC with Nuendo and Apogee (Rosetta and DA16).

The HD24XR is superior IMO.
Now I have more space, dimension, definition, quality, wider stereo image.
All is clear and big. A lot of space.

No plugins. Only my HD24XR, Midas 320, Mogami cables, and a pair of racks with effects and compresors.

melodicca's slideshow on Flickr

If I could, I would buy other mixer bigger, and other HD24XR, because I record at 24/96, and I have now only 12 tracks.
But 12 tracks now is better than 999 tracks in my PC.
Old 26th October 2007
  #56
Dang I wish I could rock this system 24 tracks at 96k
Old 26th October 2007
  #57
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Sugarnutz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nu-tra View Post
Dang I wish I could rock this system 24 tracks at 96k
Easy. Just get two units and put the little Alesis sync cable between the two, one set to master and one to slave = 24 tracks @ 96/24, they stack just like the original ADATs do. I work with a producer who is excellent at that, songwriting and arranging, but when it comes to something technical he's fish out of water. He has 2 stock HD24s synced and only uses 8 channels on the second because he has a 32 channel console for mixing. He never has an issue with these units, using them day in & day out, which for him is a great thing.

Looking to get a XDR version for my new room. if and when I get my console restored. We start renovating/cleaning up a building on my property next week to put the console in while we work on it.
Old 26th October 2007
  #58
yeah that sounds good but it wont be a bang for the buck anymore due to the limited track count on one box. Now I wish they upgraded to using sata drives instead of IDE and have a sata snake out (24-96) to a pci-e card for my mac
Old 26th October 2007
  #59
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Not much chatter on the MX-2424 and for good reason.It was a total disaster from Tascam.I had one.I was lucky to get out alive.Tascam used to have its own forum for the MX-2424.Complaints got so bad the company shut down the forum.They could not support their own product.The converters did sound very good.My plan was to use one just for A TO D.into the digi adat brige I/O(in the old mix plus days).Remember..TASCAM...ITS ta-SCAM.
Old 26th October 2007
  #60
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As I said, I like Tascam.( analog) I 've used lots of their products ( analog) throughout the years. But... with their digital stuff, to me they seem to "shoot themselves in the foot"..!......They release a product, a couple months later, they release another one similar to the previous one and the previous one doesn't have the "bugs" worked out yet. So, they just discontinue it or make a mkII!...heh
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