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CM3 - really THAT good?
Old 14th August 2019
  #2011
Lives for gear
 

Yeah, many live situations make it impossible for us to get the sonic perfection we're seeking. On the other hand, I'll bet this sounds better than what the audience heard.
Old 27th September 2019
  #2012
Gear Nut
What are you guys using to hold the SRS 3-D Printed NOS Mount for the CM3? I just got one, and the new version does not fit on the CMEH shockmount that I have... I had tried an earlier version of the 3-d Printed NOS mount that fit the CMEH perfectly, but unfortunately, that's not the case anymore.

I know this mount will fit the mic holder that comes with the CM3, but then there is no shock absorption. The Rycote Lyre might fit, but I can't justify buying one right now just for this purpose, so I'm looking for cheaper solutions. Any ideas??? Thanks in advance!
Old 27th September 2019
  #2013
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jpgerard's Avatar
You tried removing the CMEH's diameter reduction adapter, right? You can then stretch or bend inwards the CMEH's jaw to taste/needs. Don't overdo it, but there's some room to play there.
Old 27th September 2019
  #2014
Gear Nut
I thought about it, but it seemed like I was going to damage it... I'll give it another try! Thanks for the suggestion!

Edit: Well, without the diameter reduction adapter, it fits.... and the CMEH is too big! I guess it would be the perfect size with the adapter, but I'd definitely break the plastic diameter reduction adapter if I tried :-( I will try to find the little plastic piece that comes with the CMEH to make it so one could "fill in" for different mic sizes and see if it helps, but I'm not holding by breath...

Last edited by VlaVlnPlayer; 27th September 2019 at 04:14 PM.. Reason: Tried the experiement shortly after posting it!
Old 27th September 2019
  #2015
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jpgerard's Avatar
Sure, just bend the jaws out a bit (2-3mm will do), slide the plastic adapter out and then bend the jaws to the proper dimension, in turn it will affect the inside jaw.
Old 29th September 2019
  #2016
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I've been using Mic-Eze clamps. I fiddled around with various methods including mic clips, but found the flexibility of the clamps to be better. Depending on the configuration, I have on occasion used a Rycote.
Old 10th December 2019
  #2017
Lives for gear
A pair of CM3 makes a nice voice spot pair, these were separated only 12 cms and aligned parallel to each other, but panned hard left right...gives a little 'dimensionality' to what would would usually be a mono spot (or an overly wide stereo spot, if ORTF, NOS or even XY is used)
Attached Files

Shelley poem.mp3 (7.71 MB, 1236 views)

Old 10th December 2019
  #2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
A pair of CM3 makes a nice voice spot pair, these were separated only 12 cms and aligned parallel to each other, but panned hard left right...gives a little 'dimensionality' to what would would usually be a mono spot (or an overly wide stereo spot, if ORTF, NOS or even XY is used)
That does sound nice. I frequently use parallel cardioids on concerto soloists at 20 cm, but have never tried the wider CM-3's for this. What else is on this recording? And is that strictly the natural verb?
Old 10th December 2019
  #2019
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Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
A pair of CM3 makes a nice voice spot pair, these were separated only 12 cms and aligned parallel to each other, but panned hard left right...gives a little 'dimensionality' to what would would usually be a mono spot (or an overly wide stereo spot, if ORTF, NOS or even XY is used)
That does sound nice. I frequently use parallel cardioids on concerto soloists at 20 cm, but have never tried the wider CM-3's for this. What else is on this recording? And is that strictly the natural verb?
Old 10th December 2019
  #2020
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by seanmccoy View Post
That does sound nice. I frequently use parallel cardioids on concerto soloists at 20 cm, but have never tried the wider CM-3's for this. What else is on this recording? And is that strictly the natural verb?
AB main pair of KM183, overhead of the typical conductor position, providing the majority of the sound here (incl natural hall reverb, none added)

A Decca tail pair of MKH8020 AB omnis, at very low level, just for a little bass foundation to the piano...could just as easily left them out, at no detriment to the recording.
Old 13th December 2019
  #2021
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jpgerard's Avatar
Problem being mono compatibility to some extent, but does it matter anymore, I doubt it... although there are laptops with single speakers still sold today, L and R channels being summed before hitting the speaker amp.
Old 13th December 2019
  #2022
Super Moderator
 
Remoteness's Avatar
IMHO, Mono compatibility always matters. Perhaps, even more important now than ever before.

If you want a good sounding stereo mix, it has to sound great in mono.
Want it to sound great in stereo, it has to sound outstanding in mono.



Quote:
Originally Posted by jpgerard View Post
Problem being mono compatibility to some extent, but does it matter anymore, I doubt it... although there are laptops with single speakers still sold today, L and R channels being summed before hitting the speaker amp.
Old 13th December 2019
  #2023
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jpgerard's Avatar
I agree - I'm just way behind when it comes to today's distribution formats.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Remoteness View Post
IMHO, Mono compatibility always matters. Perhaps, even more important now than ever before.

If you want a good sounding stereo mix, it has to sound great in mono.
Want it to sound great in stereo, it has to sound outstanding in mono.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2024
Gear Head
 

Drumset "Wurst" mic comparison including CM3

Is this thread still going?

Here's a "wurst" mic comparison video I made using an MD421, AT4050, SM57 and CM3. Enjoy!

Old 4 weeks ago
  #2025
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jpgerard's Avatar
Refreshing CM3 samples, thanks!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2026
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cheu78's Avatar
421 is very punchy yet balanced, although the his off axis sound is less pretty than a nice condenser, but I’m positively impressed..

CM3 really shined there (not only because it’s a smooth condenser but also for its wide pattern.. wide cardioid..very smooth.. and at will it could made “brighter” with a small touch of eq.. out of the box it has a very balanced sound with a great lowend and a sweet/non harsh topend..my pick in this very case. (Although for some genres the 421 will do very well).

Not crazy about the 4050 (although together with the 421 it serves as an outside kick quite well.. very nice and fat).

SM57 is punchy but the topend is also quite hard and its off axis is also not very smooth.. but everybody knows the 57 off axis I guess.. but as a crotch mic is definitely usable.

I do think the OH used are too bright for my taste.. (I’d have used my shoeps Or another pair of cm3 or now cm4).

I believe that the CM3 in the last part where there’s the OH+kick mix, the author of the video was “influenced” a bit by the brighter results of the SM57 and when going to the cm3 felt the need to add some brightness to it (or maybe it’s simply the effect of the very bright, imho, OH taking over in the “mix”).

maybe in the context of a mix with other stuff playing, the bright OH sound might feel more “balanced”..

Btw a very nice comparison and thank you for taking the time.
Hats off to you!!

Just my 0.02$,



Cheu
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2027
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cheu78 View Post
421 is very punchy yet balanced, although the his off axis sound is less pretty than a nice condenser, but I’m positively impressed..

CM3 really shined there (not only because it’s a smooth condenser but also for its wide pattern.. wide cardioid..very smooth.. and at will it could made “brighter” with a small touch of eq.. out of the box it has a very balanced sound with a great lowend and a sweet/non harsh topend..my pick in this very case. (Although for some genres the 421 will do very well).

Not crazy about the 4050 (although together with the 421 it serves as an outside kick quite well.. very nice and fat).

SM57 is punchy but the topend is also quite hard and its off axis is also not very smooth.. but everybody knows the 57 off axis I guess.. but as a crotch mic is definitely usable.
Great writeup! I was surprised how well the CM3 did in this application. I think if I was doing a one-mic setup from this position, I would pick the CM3 for sure. I was surprised how harsh the AT4050 sounded. In context of use with other mics I think i would choose either the 57 or the CM3. I loved how much of the dark characteristics of the ride were picked up by the CM3, I'm guessing the wider pickup pattern helped it get more of the ride than the other three.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cheu78 View Post
I believe that the CM3 in the last part where there’s the OH+kick mix, the author of the video was “influenced” a bit by the brighter results of the SM57 and when going to the cm3 felt the need to add some brightness to it (or maybe it’s simply the effect of the very bright, imho, OH taking over in the “mix”).
FWIW, I used the same EQ settings on all four mics in the second part. I added a slight boost in the bass and I scooped out some mids - nothing drastic. I'm guessing the brightness is coming from the overheads (Rode NT5 with Joly roadster caps in the recorderman configuration).

Thanks for checking it out!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2028
Lives for gear
Great comparison and a good selection of mics...very helpful. . How far forward from the drummer's right knee were the mics located....very close, say around 6"...or a bit further than that ?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2029
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
Great comparison and a good selection of mics...very helpful. . How far forward from the drummer's right knee were the mics located....very close, say around 6"...or a bit further than that ?
Thanks!

Just did some measurements:

~12" away from my knee
~6" above the rim of the kick
~14" from the center of the snare
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2030
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by drumfool View Post
Thanks!

Just did some measurements:

~12" away from my knee
~6" above the rim of the kick
~14" from the center of the snare
Great....that helps in locating the mic in this area very well, much appreciated !
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2031
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cheu78's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by drumfool View Post
Great writeup! I was surprised how well the CM3 did in this application. I think if I was doing a one-mic setup from this position, I would pick the CM3 for sure. I was surprised how harsh the AT4050 sounded. In context of use with other mics I think i would choose either the 57 or the CM3. I loved how much of the dark characteristics of the ride were picked up by the CM3, I'm guessing the wider pickup pattern helped it get more of the ride than the other three.



FWIW, I used the same EQ settings on all four mics in the second part. I added a slight boost in the bass and I scooped out some mids - nothing drastic. I'm guessing the brightness is coming from the overheads (Rode NT5 with Joly roadster caps in the recorderman configuration).

Thanks for checking it out!
thank you for doing this!


I thought that indeed..because it sounded too similar to the 57 "clip".. OH taking over in the mix.. You might want to try something a bit more balanced for OH, besides the shoeps and the CM4, maybe a pair of Neumann km84 or even Gefell M300 if you like some "Neumannesque" mid push feel without too much brightness..
I don't want to sound "cocky".. just a thought that crossed my mind..

yes in that position/context the 4050 is quite harsh (although on other stuff/instrument is a nice mic overall... your kick out confirm that).

I preferred the cm3 or the 421 more than the 57, but I guess it also depends on where this is going to end up.
I'm actually quite sure that in that position a Shure Beta 181 (they do have several different caps including an omni one) or a KSM 141 (which is switchable between cardioid and omni will do very well... these mics sounds pretty nice on drums as close mics.

did you have to flip the polarity on the knee/crotch/wurst mic due to the recorderman OH (thinking at the over the shoulder/floor tom position)?

thanks again!





Cheu
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2032
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cheu78 View Post

did you have to flip the polarity on the knee/crotch/wurst mic due to the recorderman OH (thinking at the over the shoulder/floor tom position)?
I experimented with the polarity on all mics and did not end up flipping the wurst mic in relation to the overheads. When I did flip it, the kick and snare didn't sound particularly better or worse but the toms got completely swallowed up.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2033
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jpgerard's Avatar
A quick peak response analysis is interesting and the coarser 57 might be useful in some instances here, it would be fun to hear those same hannels heavily compressed to see how the comps react to the envelope of each track.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2034
Super Moderator
 
Remoteness's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by drumfool View Post
Is this thread still going?

Here's a "wurst" mic comparison video I made using an MD421, AT4050, SM57 and CM3. Enjoy!

Based on how the mics were setup, the MD421 II sounded best to my ears.

The problem for me is, none of the knee mics were positioned correctly. The idea is to focus the mic so you get the best balance between all the drums and cymbals.

IMHO, my Right (or Left) Knee Mic Technique is not just about placing the mic over the bass drum, under the ride, and pointed towards the snare! It's about finding the best location near the drummer's knee to focus on capturing the best possibly balance of all the drums and cymbals. You do this by listening to the actual mic!

Furthermore, the only time I use a cardioid mic as a knee mic is when I have to make sure I'm isolating the other instruments on stage or the audience when they are closer to the drums than normal.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2035
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Remoteness View Post
The problem for me is, none of the knee mics were positioned correctly. The idea is to focus the mic so you get the best balance between all the drums and cymbals.

Furthermore, the only time I use a cardioid mic as a knee mic...
I set it up the way Moses Schneider sets it up. He mostly uses an SM57. He uses it to add unique character to the overall sound that is blended in with the other mics, not as a solo mic picking everything up equally. Often times, the wurst mic is heavily processed to taste.


Thanks for checking it out!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2036
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Ol' Betsey's Avatar
Great video. Cheers!

R.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drumfool View Post
Is this thread still going?

Here's a "wurst" mic comparison video I made using an MD421, AT4050, SM57 and CM3. Enjoy!

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