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CM3 - really THAT good?
Old 1st May 2013
  #631
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Lorenzop's Avatar
 

Yes the LineAudio pres seem v good, if gearslutz shoot outs are any worth....my ears I like it.

Only problem - for double the price, my ears seem to prefer a tad more the DAV BG1. Nice open sound...

Hmmm decisions decisions....
Old 3rd May 2013
  #632
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amfortas2006's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Foof View Post
Recorded with the CM3s in ORTF. Enjoy your weekend!

The Old Foof
hmmm... did you denoise that or something? Sounds watery and distorted...
Old 4th May 2013
  #633
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by amfortas2006 View Post
hmmm... did you denoise that or something? Sounds watery and distorted...
AND noisy to be honest.
Old 4th May 2013
  #634
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The Listener's Avatar
That piano recording sounds like a too distant recording with a noisy pre... CM3s require a lot of clean gain for more distant recordings and they are not the quietest mics around anyway... but still - they are not that noisy...

For quality application of those mics listen to Ivo's recordings that were just recently posted or several others - notably - the double bass and piano album recorded by Douglas Whates and his examples posted a couple of pages back... Those mics kick serious ass for their price!

Still - I must admit - I listened again to some of my comparisons with DPA 4006A and 4011A and those mics are really better, not just different - they capture smoother high end and deeper and nicer low end - among the most audible attributes I can think of after listening again to those recordings... but for the price...

DPA 4006A hang test recording

Line Audio CM3 hang test recording


DPA 4011A frame drum test recording


Line Audio CM3 frame drum test recording
Old 4th May 2013
  #635
nkf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Listener View Post
CM3s require a lot of clean gain for more distant recordings and they are not the quietest mics around anyway... but still - they are not that noisy...
That's the achilles heel of the CM3. You need a very good preamp with lots of clean gain to bring them to more applications. I have a pair since some time now and I really like how they sound - they're good microphones. But for low level sources you better treat them like DPA4060s or alike.
Old 4th May 2013
  #636
It does all come back to "what do you expect for $150?"

The answer?

A WHOLE lot less that what this mic is.

Also, I'm surprised so many folks find its low output to be a problem... It certainly isn't as low as ribbon level, and this doesn't keep us all from using ribbon mics right?

I wouldn't recommend it for distant mic'ing of a quiet source, because it does have a slightly higher noise floor (though not as high as the ubiquitous DPA 4060; the cm3 is about the same as or lower than almost every other sdc under $500), but for almost any other application, especially spot work, this thing is a gem.
Old 4th May 2013
  #637
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Lorenzop's Avatar
 

Yea...

Please advice sincerely:

What do you think is best for CM3:

matching an AEA TRP preamp with a separate phantom power box (the TRP has no phantom)
Or
Using the Line Audio preamp?

I'm considering a TRP in view of my ribbons so am hoping to catch "2 pidgeons with one bean" so to speak.
Line Audio pre is certainly good but I wonder if the above mentioned TRP with good phantom box is "better" for the CM3s
Old 4th May 2013
  #638
nkf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by king2070lplaya View Post
Also, I'm surprised so many folks find its low output to be a problem... It certainly isn't as low as ribbon level, and this doesn't keep us all from using ribbon mics right?
The low output isn't a problem for me but it limits the possibilities with lesser preamps like in some compact recorders. And no ... I don't have a single ribbon mic.
Old 5th May 2013
  #639
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jpgerard's Avatar
I'd probably go with the DAV previously mentioned if you want to spend more than what the 2MP costs. The TRP with external Phantom supply is probably not going to be an improvment over the DAV when using the CM3, so I'd suggest getting the TRP for your ribbons and the 2MP or the DAV for your Line Audios. You'll be able to use the 4 mics at the same time with perfectly matched preamps. It's usually better to invest in the proper gear even if it takes a bit more time!
Old 5th May 2013
  #640
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Lorenzop's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpgerard View Post
...It's usually better to invest in the proper gear even if it takes a bit more time!
True True !
Thanks
Old 12th May 2013
  #641
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiop View Post
You may want to check out the Line Audio preamps as well. Neutral and clean sounding. Performs like the best with a tenth of the price tag just like the mic's.

/Peter
Hi,

I own the Line Audio Pre amp 8MP and it is a marvelous pre amp. I use it with Pearl TL-4, Neumann KM184, Octava 012. I was recommended this pre amp from a friend who also have the Millennia pre amp. He has AB tested them and could not hear any difference. The Line Audio pre amp (both 2MP and 8MP are the same) are quiet and very transparent. I only record acoustic, classical music and for me it is very, very good. In Sweden the 8MP costs around $835 including Vat. A Millennia costs around the same price for each channel.

/Pär
Old 12th May 2013
  #642
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ISedlacek's Avatar
I would say it sounds more natural than Millennia
Old 3rd June 2013
  #643
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bukarin's Avatar
 

Just got my CM3s today and immediately put them up against a set of 4011s on overhead duty. I'm really impressed!! First off I'd say they we're a little brighter and clearly more open sounding but with a little less detail. The biggest difference was in the transient information, the CM3s weren't as punchy as the 4011s and didn't deal with the low mids as well in this situation but I can definitely imagine using the CM3s in place of the 4011s for some things. We stuck with the 4011s (already started project) but would have been happy using the CM3s. Both the engineers working on my session are going to buy some. I'm also aware that its not the best comparison for these polar patterns but I know the 4011s as overheads and they were already setup. No files but if I have chance I'll try and put some comparisons down this week.

I'm really happy with my purchase and can't wait to test them on acoustic guitar and my upright piano (what I got them for). Yes they're great and I've used a fair amount of SDCs over the years!! Thankyou Line Audio!

Also Roger was great to deal with and everything happened as expected!!
Getting the Omni's very soon and maybe another set of CM3's!!
Old 3rd June 2013
  #644
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Lorenzop's Avatar
 

Hello
I tested today cm3 mic on acoustic guitar, quite nice but I have 2 question (as I'm a newby at recording):

1 Is it normal that to get good signal, I had to have it at circa 10 cm distance to guitar (around the end of fingerboard to the sound hole) and about 50db of gain? This seemed very close to me given the amount of gain I had to pump anyways.

Also is it normal that if I increased gain above 50db there is some "high freq. hiss" present also in signal?
I take it my preamp is ok it just gets noisy around the 60db mark but here it was lower. Is it really preamp hiss or is it ambient hiss ?

Thanks!
Old 3rd June 2013
  #645
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oren View Post
Since we have a new thread for the OM1 I've posted a small harpsichord sample there:
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/remot...ats-about.html

Church organ samples will follow!

In the meantime here are some more samples of the CM3: two short samples of a small vocal ensemble SAATB (all males!) from a rehearsal in a nice small village church. Early baroque polyphony.

No processing/ filtering what so ever

Wow.

I'm absolutely stunned by that first sample! It's simply one
of the cleanest, clearest recordings I've ever heard in my life!

I'm listening on my Yamaha HS80Ms, and it's just stunning.

I believe I'm currently an atheist, but I go to church just to
listen to a good organ, and if there is a God, he/she/it lives within
the mathematical purity of music like this.

Wonderful. You should offer these recordings as a CD, etc.

Keep it up.

And DAMN YOU ALL! Instilling the lust for a CM3 into strangers
who don't need more mics!!!

SHAME ON YOU ALL!!!!





Old 9th June 2013
  #646
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul678 View Post
Wow.

I'm absolutely stunned by that first sample! It's simply one
of the cleanest, clearest recordings I've ever heard in my life!

I'm listening on my Yamaha HS80Ms, and it's just stunning.

I believe I'm currently an atheist, but I go to church just to
listen to a good organ, and if there is a God, he/she/it lives within
the mathematical purity of music like this.

Wonderful. You should offer these recordings as a CD, etc.

Keep it up.

And DAMN YOU ALL! Instilling the lust for a CM3 into strangers
who don't need more mics!!!

SHAME ON YOU ALL!!!!





Hi there Paul,
thanks for your friendly feedback! I am too amazed by the quality of the CM3. Whenever I place it in front of a sound source it sounds exactly like I wanted. It's nearly the only Cardioid out there that doesn't have a HF boost of some kind. It also doesn't have a LF "treatment" like my beloved Senn 8040. It doesn't need any of those, because it has it's own natural and relaxed sound.

I see people here comparing the CM3 to Schoeps and DPA, claiming that the Line Audio mics are not on the same level. I wouldn't be so sure of that. We humans have a hard time being objective (what is objective anyway...) and distinguishing between real quality differences and details of taste and flavor. Also when holding a 2k mic in your hand, it's very very difficult to criticize it's quality. On the other hand, a 150 dollar mic...

One ought to consider the production tolerance of Line Audio: I bought 6 CM3's and they are all perfectly matched even without ordering them as matched pairs. All the 6 could be used arbitrarily as a stereo pair. My two KM183's which I have ordered as stereo pair have a difference of around 1.2 db! Neumann doesn't really match, they just give your following serial numbers claiming that production tolerances are near zero. well...
Old 9th June 2013
  #647
I've been using the CM3s in a sampling project that's been going on for a few months, and I'm constantly comparing them against other higher end mics, including the 4006A.

Often, I'll have them on a small bar right next to others, and I'll move them around while listening in real-time through high end IEMs. This speeds up the comparative process, not having to listen back in a control room, all while having a very accurate picture of what's going on.

I've got so many channels running that I often forget which mics are which, which removes any bias in those situations. When I get the sound I'm looking for, I'll then figure out what mic it is that's providing that sound...

Using the above method in practice, I've found that *overall* the CM3 does not compare to the 4006A. Does it work better is some situations? Yes! In *most* situations? NO! It's clearly obvious that the 4006A has a more "polished" sound that is going to get you there in more micing scenarios. By polished, I don't mean over-done, hyped, etc.

I disagree that the CM3 is not hyped and doesn't have a lift in the upper registers. I've found that it's definitely a tad brighter than my more neutral mics like the STO-2, even though the STO-2 has a touch of "sizzle-ness". Overall though, I believe the STO-2 provides a more accurate picture of what the instrument sounds like in the room compared to the CM3. However, I would not use the STO-2 in an orchestral context due to its higher self noise. But, for mid-field and spot micing, the noise is often completely masked and is a total non-issue. And of course, you need a really good room for these and other omnis in a typical studio when not up close to the source.

If you've followed most any of my posts, you'd know that I'm no stranger to perceptive bias, psychoacoustics, etc. I actually obtained the 4006As after my CM3s, and had plenty of time to return them. I'm far from rich and that money could definitely be useful in other areas. I've had literally hundreds of "sesssions" with all of these mics during that period, and there's no way in hell those 4006As were going back!!!

That said, the CM3s weren't going back either! They are definitely fantastic mics, no question. And that's at *any* price, IMHO. When comparing mics, you really have to compare them in practice/context. Most on here know that a desert island do-it-all mic does not exist. It's about how often the mic will work in a variety of situations. There are times that the CM3 will work better than the 4006A, for example. But there are many more times that the 4006A will work better than a CM3 (in a good room... we're not comparing apples to apples here... I actually haven't compared these mics in a "bad" or untreated room).
Old 9th June 2013
  #648
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boojum's Avatar
^^^^^^^ Ermmm, you are comparing a cardioid, the CM3, to omnis. Is that a valid comparison or is it apples and oranges??
Old 9th June 2013
  #649
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul678 View Post
I believe I'm currently an atheist, but I go to church just to
listen to a good organ, and if there is a God, he/she/it lives within
the mathematical purity of music like this.:
Jesus Christ.... Mathematical purity?
Old 9th June 2013
  #650
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didier.brest's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoSueMe View Post
I disagree that the CM3 is not hyped and doesn't have a lift in the upper registers. I've found that it's definitely a tad brighter than my more neutral mics like the STO-2, even though the STO-2 has a touch of "sizzle-ness". Overall though, I believe the STO-2 provides a more accurate picture of what the instrument sounds like in the room compared to the CM3.
I was interested in testing this. It may be right but do not forget that an omni microphones sounds fulller in the lows than a cardioid microphone in general, which may make a cardioid microphone sounding brighter in comparison.
Attached Thumbnails
CM3 - really THAT good?-dscf1116.jpg  
Attached Files

CM3.mp3 (1.66 MB, 1600 views)

STO-2.mp3 (1.66 MB, 1530 views)

Old 9th June 2013
  #651
Quote:
Originally Posted by boojum View Post
^^^^^^^ Ermmm, you are comparing a cardioid, the CM3, to omnis. Is that a valid comparison or is it apples and oranges??
No, I mentioned that it's not apples to apples at the end of my post. But, is anything truly apples to apples when comparing mics?
Old 9th June 2013
  #652
Quote:
Originally Posted by didier.brest View Post
I was interested in testing this. It may be right but do not forget that an omni microphones sounds fulller in the lows than a cardioid microphone in general, which may make a cardioid microphone sounding brighter in comparison.
What I'm hearing here is expected when micing most instruments at that distance; the brightness I was referring to from the CM3 becomes more noticeable when pulled further from the source. I prefer the STO-2s in this comparison as I hear more breathing and space, most likely due to its pattern alone. The CM3 has a more closed-in character. If in the context of a mix, I might prefer the CM3, as there's more midrange "body". Also, the higher noise floor from the STO-2 doesn't bother me at all personally (in this case). For what it's worth, the STO-2 s sound horrid on my piano... not sure why but my piano is voiced lower than this one.
Old 9th June 2013
  #653
Lives for gear
to didier.brest for posting this comparison and to SoSueMe for posting his thoughts.

I suppose there are dishes where apples are essential and there are other dishes where oranges are essential.
Old 10th June 2013
  #654
PRH
Gear Addict
 

@dider.brest (slightly off topic):

What is the name the piece you posted above (post #650)?

Thanks! Paul
Old 10th June 2013
  #655
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didier.brest's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PRH View Post
@dider.brest (slightly off topic):

What is the name the piece you posted above (post #650)?

Thanks! Paul
Hungarian Melody from Franz Schubert (D. 817).
Old 10th June 2013
  #656
PRH
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by didier.brest View Post
Many thanks! Paul
Old 10th June 2013
  #657
Gear Addict
 
glenn_jr's Avatar
 

Hey guys, I've been following this thread for a while and thought I would finally add to it. I bought my cm3's for field recording. Seemed the cheapest and best route to go for recording surround. I've been experimenting with them outdoors and posted some examples of them outdoors in NOS and ORTF over in the Post forum. I havent seen much posted with these mics in this situation. So hope it's of some use.

My Stereo Ambience Setups - Which do you prefer?
Old 10th June 2013
  #658
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jpgerard's Avatar
Ahh, nice setup, I have to ask what windshields you ended up using, rycotes?
Old 10th June 2013
  #659
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Quote:
Originally Posted by king2070lplaya View Post
Jesus Christ.... Mathematical purity?
Never listened to J.S.Bach? Mathematical purity.
Music is math.

Those interested in the subject should read "Gödel, Escher, Bach – An Eternal Golden Braid" from Douglas R. Hofstadter.
Old 11th June 2013
  #660
Gear Addict
 
glenn_jr's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpgerard View Post
Ahh, nice setup, I have to ask what windshields you ended up using, rycotes?
I wanted to get some ball gags but nobody near me has any to try out. I'm worried they might not fit properly - although I think they will work.

I couldn't seem to find much out there that was made for them so I looked for a custom jobby. I initially asked redhead windscreen to make me some. He made a furry for my 825 that turned out nice. But he took a bit too long to get back to me. So I found this guy, Wolf Windshields to make me some. They were pretty cheap, so I figured even if they sucked I wouldn't be out much.

Turns out they're not bad for my uses. I stuck a few CM3's onto my scooter and got up to around 75kph with nothing but these windshields on them. Surprisingly they held up well until around 55kph or so. And the wind noise wasn't all that bad beyond that. [Keeping in mind they were placed in a drafting area]

For the field recording I just stuck the windshields over the CM3 with nothing underneath. There's a bit of an air gap in there that can accommodate the CM3 foam cover, but this combo didn't seem to work as well as just using the windshield solo.

I'll eventually get some ball gags but until then, I don't go out when it's really windy, so I think these guys will do fine.
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