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Millenia or DAV BG1 as clean stereo preamp ?
Old 30th April 2009
  #181
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Teddy Ray's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noooway View Post
Waiting for my DAV BG9 - Pre/DI.
I hear ya. welcome to the fold.
Old 30th April 2009
  #182
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Dave Ferris's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teddy Ray View Post
Shoot me a PM, i will contact him for you.

I talk to him often.
Thanks Teddy, he sent me an email this morning. I had sent to an old email he rarely checks I guess. Although I asked him what is the delivery time on the BG#1U to LA and he didn't respond to that, I guess I'll have to write him again.
Old 5th May 2009
  #183
Gear Head
Hi Guys read the whole thread, I have not tried DAV BG1 or the Millenia, for me the DAV BG1 would be the best choice given price and the tone it is very easy on the ear….however you can get a Millennia HV-3B which is a Millennia HV-3C with out their super dooper expensive knobs for around $850USD.

See DOC SCARY Mic Pre with 2 Channels of Millennia HV-3B - eBay (item 120393994542 end time Mar-22-09 13:17:21 PDT)

One of the x workers of the company buys the parts and assembles them, I have delt with them and they seem to be A.O.K.I`ll let you know when I try one out I can even post some examples if you like although I’m not engineer and I’m not really that experienced but I will be track with the Millennia HV-3B through a Rode K2 with a telefunken tube
into a tascam 2488 and see how it goes.

I may have gone with a DAV BG1 but I have never herd of them up until today.

Last edited by keena; 5th May 2009 at 02:01 PM.. Reason: needed to add something
Old 13th November 2010
  #184
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theproduca's Avatar
 

Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Ferris View Post
David..that's very nice man. Really enjoyed it.
I was looking at a DAV BG somewhere, and came here to see what the slutz are saying. Well, then this guitar track hit me in the NUTTSAKK!!! Dammm, that ISH is HOTTT!!! IS this recorded with the BG? If so, 2 channles of this is good money!! I wonder what the mic was? Peace and lovely track.....5 times in a row sooo far. OOpppps 6.
Old 17th January 2011
  #185
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SynthLine09's Avatar
 

Anyone have recordings of classical music done with the BG 1?

I just e-mailed mick and he gave me a rundown of all their prices.

I revived this old thread so i didn't have to start a new one because I found a lot of useful info in it
Old 18th January 2011
  #186
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I acquired a BG1 second hand a few months ago, and have used it with my AKG C426B and Schoeps CMCs (and just for the hell of it, a Studio Projects LSD2). In most cases, it went straight into the line in of the Nagra V. The Nagra mic pres are pretty good (I normally find a way to use them even on multi-track jobs). But now my preferred configuration is main pair on the BG1, with outriggers or spots on the Nagra pres. The difference is subtle but there is an increased openness about the resulting sound which produced very nice results, especially on the string orchestra.

The gigs have been piano trio (C426B on the strings via BG1), string orchestra with soprano (Schoeps MK4s in ORTF with MK2S outriggers) and orchestra main (LSD2/BG1 on its own in M-S for a Bach Cantata - baritone soloist with strings only and harpsichord and oboe continuo - and with MK4 woods spotters also in M-S via the Nagra mics for the rest including Tchaikovsky). I haven't done a side-by-side comparison AKG/LSD2 but the latter with the BG1 is quite satisfactory, considering the price difference. (Actually the price of the C426B is not a factor because it is now discontinued and hence irreplaceable.)

The BG1 is currently on loan to a colleague who is recording a music festival in the wilds of Victoria. No doubt he may come back with his own impressions. I can't upload actual recordings at the moment due to copyright considerations.
Old 18th January 2011
  #187
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hbphotoav's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SynthLine09 View Post
Anyone have recordings of classical music done with the BG 1?
Run a search of my postings... I have large choir/orchestra in a posting of clips from St Paul's Outside the Walls in Rome in 2009, and from organ, choral, brass and orchestra at First Baptist Church in Nashville this year. Chains are described... usually Gefell, DPA and Sennheiser mics and a BG8, which, if I'm not mistaken, is the same circuit.

Start with this one: https://www.gearslutz.com/board/remot...requested.html
Old 18th January 2011
  #188
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MichaelPatrick's Avatar
 

For their reasonable cost, light weight and incredible sound, DAV BG preamps should be in everyone's classical recording kit. They are not just a good preamp for the money, IMO they beat most preamps out there when put to the test.

Some clips...
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/remot...-burl-adc.html
Old 18th January 2011
  #189
Deleted User
Guest
I used to have the BG8, the 8 channel version. Sold it and purchased Grace Design m802 hoping to have even better results as this one is "cleaner". I made several recordings to realize I missed my older setup. So I bought the BG8 again. Now I think I am one of the crazy fans of this box. It looks like it's made in a garage (maybe it is?) but sounds great. BTW, that experience has changed my imagination of super clean and clear signal path.
Old 18th January 2011
  #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Empiria View Post
It looks like it's made in a garage
"the garage" is the birthplace of many great businesses! Hewlett-Packard and Apple, to name two. I dealt with another UK company that started making high-tech components (high precision mechanical) for the US military in the founder's garage (the firm rose and fell, and the founder is back where he started, I believe).

If you mean they are assembled in off-the shelf rack cases, or using standard aluminium extrusion, yes, this is what facilitates a small scale business avoiding huge start-up costs. Inside the circuit boards and component assemblies are excellent (no surface mount stuff of course) in my view.

But as with the examples listed above, the key to success is the intelligence and experience behind the concept and implementation, and commitment to excellence. No disrespect to Messrs. Grace and La Grou (et al) but I find Mr Hinton does it just as well - with the added advantage of traditional British understatement (a quality that I have observed is not widely appreciated west of the Atlantic). (o:
Old 18th January 2011
  #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Empiria View Post
I used to have the BG8, the 8 channel version. Sold it and purchased Grace Design m802 hoping to have even better results as this one is "cleaner". I made several recordings to realize I missed my older setup. So I bought the BG8 again. Now I think I am one of the crazy fans of this box. It looks like it's made in a garage (maybe it is?) but sounds great. BTW, that experience has changed my imagination of super clean and clear signal path.
Hi!

I'm just curious what makes you think the Grace is cleaner and that you prefer the DAV even though it's worse spec wise?

Possibly the DAV is the best performer even on the bench.


/Peter
Old 18th January 2011
  #192
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Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiop View Post
Hi!

I'm just curious what makes you think the Grace is cleaner and that you prefer the DAV even though it's worse spec wise?
It's a matter of definition of cleanness, IMHO. DAV is a clean amp but still adds a subtle colour. I just like this and I think it helps. Some may say because of that it is not clean or at least not enough. I hear any detail, no harsh, have no noise problems even with ribbons. It's clean. Of course, it is a matter of taste but I prefer this kind of cleanness. BTW, I have that feeling about the Audient ASP008, too. Recently purchased one and I am pleased. In practise, I found it easier to get a good sound with DAV than Grace. I didn't like hardness (specially in highs) that appears in super clean amps.

So much has been said about DAV here on GS. I feel like what I'm saying is not new. I am just another happy user.
Old 18th January 2011
  #193
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didier.brest's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Empiria View Post
BTW, I have that feeling about the Audient ASP008, too.
Could you expand a bit about the comparison between BG8 and ASP008 ?
Old 18th January 2011
  #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Empiria View Post
It's a matter of definition of cleanness,
Well in my world that would be low levels of artefacts (as measured) or audibly clean when comparing output to input.

I think it's easy to fool oneself to just listen and then tell if a piece of gear is clean or not since we actually listen to a chain with lots of links that can color the sound and compensate each other.

Quote:
I didn't like hardness (specially in highs) that appears in super clean amps.

So much has been said about DAV here on GS. I feel like what I'm saying is not new. I am just another happy user.
My point just being that the DAV may actually be the clean one. :-)


/Peter
Old 18th January 2011
  #195
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MichaelPatrick's Avatar
 

DAV BG preamps have a signature that just makes it easier to get good recordings.

Grace and Millennia are good preamps; very "clean" and "transparent," wire with gain, etc. etc. However, these amps can get congested and sound a little bit hard or brittle in the highs when the signal is complex with lots of instruments or harmonics, especially at higher SPLs.

Forssell is, to my ear, the most forgiving "clean, transparent" preamp you can buy. It doesn't have the negatives of other "clean" designs. Fred, however, doesn't make a preamp with all the Grace Lunatec V3 features like portability, AD, and MS.

The purest and most resolute preamp I've ever heard is Gordon 5. It has the kind of "clean" and "transparent" character that Millennia and Grace probably strive for. It does not get congested, hard, or brittle under any circumstances. Grant Carpenter put an amazing amount of extra work into it to make it sonically pure and I think it paid off.

An honorable mention for DACS Clarity MicAmp -- a squeaky clean box with the punch of an API. Wow can it work wonders with ribbons! No more laid-back sound -- they come out punching and screaming.
Old 18th January 2011
  #196
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Michael,

Quote:
DAV BG preamps have a signature that just makes it easier to get good recordings.
This signature, what's it like? Do you hear the same signature on organ as on triangle? Hope you get my point. :-)

Quote:
Grace and Millennia are good preamps; very "clean" and "transparent," wire with gain, etc. etc. However, these amps can get congested and sound a little bit hard or brittle in the highs when the signal is complex with lots of instruments or harmonics, especially at higher SPLs.
But if so they are not transparent or equal to a wire with gain. What you write suggest that there obvious problems in these designs. Clean and transparent means no audible coloration of the original signal. Don't you agree?

Quote:
Forssell is, to my ear, the most forgiving "clean, transparent" preamp you can buy. It doesn't have the negatives of other "clean" designs. Fred, however, doesn't make a preamp with all the Grace Lunatec V3 features like portability, AD, and MS.
I wouldn't be surprised if the Forsell designs actually measures better than the "lesser" ones you mention.


/Peter
Old 18th January 2011
  #197
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MichaelPatrick's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiop View Post
Michael,

This signature, what's it like? Do you hear the same signature on organ as on triangle? Hope you get my point. :-)

But if so they are not transparent or equal to a wire with gain. What you write suggest that there obvious problems in these designs. Clean and transparent means no audible coloration of the original signal. Don't you agree?

I wouldn't be surprised if the Forsell designs actually measures better than the "lesser" ones you mention.
Peter,

RE DAV signature: Like a camera lens, it treats all subjects (sounds) the same. I can't think of an instrument where it would be deficient, though there are times when another preamp is a better choice for one reason or another. DAV is the most universally pleasing amp I've used. If I could only have one ...

RE problems with "clean" amp designs: I'd call it a performance limitation in the Grace and Millennia designs. They work very well but can distort unpleasantly under the conditions I mentioned and that, indeed, is a problem unless you know how to prevent it. Forssell, Gordon and DAV have little or none of this particular "problem."

RE measuring the Forssell: My comments are based on use and listening. I haven't made measurements and wouldn't know how to find in them any correspondence to the distortions I can hear.
Old 18th January 2011
  #198
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didier.brest's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelPatrick View Post
DAV BG preamps have a signature that just makes it easier to get good recordings.

Grace and Millennia are good preamps; very "clean" and "transparent," wire with gain, etc. etc. However, these amps can get congested and sound a little bit hard or brittle in the highs when the signal is complex with lots of instruments or harmonics, especially at higher SPLs.

Forssell is, to my ear, the most forgiving "clean, transparent" preamp you can buy. It doesn't have the negatives of other "clean" designs. Fred, however, doesn't make a preamp with all the Grace Lunatec V3 features like portability, AD, and MS.

The purest and most resolute preamp I've ever heard is Gordon 5. It has the kind of "clean" and "transparent" character that Millennia and Grace probably strive for. It does not get congested, hard, or brittle under any circumstances.
Thank you for this great report Michael!
Have you some experience with John Hardy or GML preamps ? They seem being also stars in the clean side of the preamps paradise.
Old 18th January 2011
  #199
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MichaelPatrick's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by didier.brest View Post
Thank you for this great report Michael!
Have you some experience with John Hardy or GML preamps ? They seem being also stars in the clean side of the preamps paradise.
My experience is limited and I wish those amps were included in it. I've heard great things ABOUT them and, if I could get loaners or demos, I'd love to take them out for a spin.
Old 18th January 2011
  #200
Deleted User
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by didier.brest View Post
Could you expand a bit about the comparison between BG8 and ASP008 ?
About the Audient: It's clean without coldness. It does not colour the sound but it is not sterile. It's not brittle in the highs. Does not have the DAV magic but sounds very, very nice. Price is nice, too. I haven't used it on mains, just several spots. Maybe I will try it one day. It would be easier to make a comparison with DAV then. Hope this helps.
Old 19th January 2011
  #201
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Consideration for all these choices should give some (I say equal) weighting to operation features. And the ASP008 has the interesting feature of variable HPF turnover frequency in the range 20 to 250 Hz. Interesting if you are tuning it for violin, vocal, guitar, cello or bass. The Portico 5012 has the same feature.

alternatively, if inbuilt A-D is also useful, consider the RME OctaMic II ...

It never ends!
Old 20th January 2011
  #202
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Plush's Avatar
Lest I ruffle feathers once again. . . (of course I AM a broken record on this subject)

May I remind fans and potential fans of the BG mic amps that these were the mic amps used (and still used) at the Decca Recording Company. (and its successor, Classic Sound, London)

Many prototypes and designs were offered and evaluated by the ears at Decca. The presently manufactured d.a.v. electronics Broadhurst Gardens mic amps were the ones deemed the best sounding at Decca.

So these mic amps have already been qualified by Decca.

Will potential new fans of BG wait for US here on GS to re-qualify the mic amps? It is simply not necessary. They have already been qualified by The Decca Record Company.

That is why that even though I can use anything I want, I use 20 channels of BG mic amps for my recordings.
Old 20th January 2011
  #203
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JonesH's Avatar
Millenia or DAV BG1 as clean stereo preamp ?

Might be a tie between Plush with the DAVs and mr. Robinetts ULN-8 for most gear-love posts
Great to see people enjoying their gear!
Old 20th January 2011
  #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post

Will potential new fans of BG wait for us here on GS to re-qualify the mic amps? It is simply not necessary.
Much as I like these forums, I can't imagine anyone waiting for any piece of gear to be "qualified" or "requalified" on GS, or another other place.

Has anyone asked for a "seal of qualification," or has that seal merely been offered by some, under the assumption that the world needs or desires it?
Old 21st January 2011
  #205
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For those of us (especially relative newbies) without access or wherewithal to "test and compare before buying" before making every major expenditure, advice and recommendations from the folks who grace this forum and who have decades of successful work in the medium is essential. After years in the photo and video arenas, I have learned to research purchases (yielding logical rather than emotional decisions) and to try to "buy once, buy right" for the work I intend to do. The give-and-take, and differences of opinion provide the grist to allow me to digest a vast amount of information regarding gear, practices and procedures.

In my peculiar world, I read as much as I can preceding a purchase... search GS and 3dB threads for relevant discussions, try to collect as many views and opinions as possible. Then I correspond with the two or three people I actually have met, with whom I have relationship, and whose work I have heard and appreciate. Sift it, check the bank balance, make my decision and proceed. The upshoot... I haven't sold any of the gear I've purchased in the past 10 years... not because I'm a hoarder (though, admittedly, I am a bit of a packrat)... but because it's all still useful. From the PreSonus FirePod (my first real foray into a DAW and interface, which will now add 8 inputs to my StudioLive desk) to Mackies, mics and support... it's rarely all out at the same time, but it all works regularly.

Opinions are like livers (and other body parts)... everybody has one. But I value and weight the opinions of those with relevant basis more than those of folks about whom I know nothing. When I do discover the basis of an opinion, it will, necessarily, carry more weight in my decision process.

So... while no product "needs" to be qualified to be discussed or otherwise appear on GS, the fact that one or another bit of kit is so well regarded by so many people in so many different places (experience, credits lists, etc) does, in my view, give it "basis" or "qualifies " it for my serious consideration.

YM likely MV.

HB
Old 21st January 2011
  #206
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SaraLs's Avatar
 

I'm not offering an opinion, I don't have the ground to stand on to do so. I will say this, though. I have and frequently use a DAV BG1. Along with my AEA TRP, to my humble ear it offers the smoothest, richest, cleanest (black background) most natural sound of any of the preamps I have otherwise used. Is that a form of qualification? Oh, no, not at all. But, if I can hear and appreciate what the DAV preamp offers, then anyone can.
Old 15th February 2011
  #207
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Nobilmente's Avatar
 

Is it not because DAV preamps are so good that they are discussed so often?
Old 30th March 2011
  #208
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uncle duncan's Avatar
 

DAV BG-1 versus Hardy M-1?

While I like the sound my DAV BG-1, I'm looking for cleaner, more defined S's in vocals. Would the Hardy M-1 be a noticeable improvement?
Old 30th March 2011
  #209
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sunflute's Avatar
 

The Hardy M-1 will probably give you what you are looking for. I had both and loved the Hardy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle duncan View Post
DAV BG-1 versus Hardy M-1?

While I like the sound my DAV BG-1, I'm looking for cleaner, more defined S's in vocals. Would the Hardy M-1 be a noticeable improvement?
Old 30th March 2011
  #210
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Plush's Avatar
I would say that if one wants a more defined "S" sound in some vocals, then make a suggestion to the singer to perform it that way.

Why do we forget about this? As recordists, we direct the session.
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